Please help-I am desperate-long

[pink4ever]

Have had problems with ds1-age 8-since he started school. He enjoys it,trys hard but just doesnt seem to "get" learning.

I always suspected from his reports/parents evening that he was quite behind his peer group. However the school only really brought this to our attention about 2 years ago-primary 3 in scotland. They said he was really struggling with literacy/reading and that he would get one on one help from an additional needs teacher.

Obviously I was concerned about this and and was trying to do my best to help him at home-he has been a member of the library since he was a baby,we go every week,I try and encourage him to read,do extra work at home-to little avail etc.

I was then called back last year for a further meeting where we were told school was very concerned and that they wanted ds to see an ed psychologist. However due to demand we have waited a year for this to happen.

In the mean time ds seemed to be making slow progress-good teacher-and the last I was told he was roughly a year behind.

Now finally got an appointment with ed psych but went to meeting with dh teacher this morning and -sorry finally getting to the point-they want us to consider putting ds into the additional needs school-which would most likely be the same school he is now but a different building.

I am in bits-they want me to tell my ds that after being in mainstream school for 5 years he has to leave and go into a class with children with major social and behavioural problems-autism/aspergers/adhd etc. I am sorry if I cause any offence to those posters who may have children with these needs-not my intention.

I have already indicated that I dont think it is an option-please do not flame me for this choice-but ds is already aware that he is struggling and I think to remove him from all his friends and put him in a class with children he himself refers to as "special"-again no offence-would cause him lasting emotional damage.

Does anyone have any advice on how to tackle this with school?-is there an option where you can keep children back a year?-he is also quite immature for his age.

I definately dont think there are any issues with dyslexia/aspergers or anything like that-school just keep saying possible developtment delay?

Please help

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Quite simply your child needs the other part of the school. He will make friends there, there will be others with develpmental delay there, he will get all the attention and one-to-one help he needs.

Yes, children and adults take the piss (wrongly) out of children with SEN - please don't be part of that Your child has SEN and you are waiting for a diagnosis and help.

The people on the SEN board are lovely and they will hand hold you, few people like to hear their child has extra challenges.

You will come to terms with this and your child will get the help he needs.

Thank you for your kind words laurie but I have already said I dont think putting him into the additional needs school will help my ds-perhaps if he had started out there or if this had been picked up earlier.

But after 5 years at mainstream school how can you tell a child-sorry but your just too thick to be here?-again am not saying that to be nasty but I know thats exactly how my son will feel

I understand that one on one attention would benefit my ds but I simply dont bleieve he would get it there-how can he when the teachers are having to deal with children who can barely speak?who cant sit in their chair,who shout/scream etc-again no offence intended but I have seen all this. The dcs are lovely-am friendly with a couple of them-but they have major problems.

I agree with you in what you said about there being a stigma attached to sen-I remember from when we were at school people poked fun at the kids who went to the "special school". What chance has my ds got in life if he has to put on his cv that he went to a "special school"?-he will be labeled for the rest of life

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

My children used to be at a mainstream school with a special needs unit.

The children who needed extra support (mild or temporary SEN) often spent some lessons in the Special Needs unit and other lessons with their peers. By mild or temporary SEN I mean things like joining the school with no English, being behind because of a move from another country. Would the school be able to do some sort of half way house where he attended both parts of the school?

In your shoes I would ask to look round the special needs part of the school and talk to staff there. It may not be the sort of environment that you imagine. Do children who move there go back to the mainstream bit? What help can they offer your ds that the mainsteam school can not?

In my opinion, moving him down a year may be more "damaging" than the move to the Special Needs section of the school. In England, he'd be expected to apply for secondary at the correct age so even if you successfully moved him down he'd have to skip Y6 and go to Y7.

can you wait until after you have seen the ed psych - get some kind of diagnosis and then decide which is the best for you DS.

Seems a bit silly to jump to something different before knowing that, since it is already in progress. Roughly a year behind is probably well within the range of normal I would think. Is it across the board or just with literacy ? It is a problem with our education system that it is so dependent on early literacy skills and doesn't cater well for those who take a while to figure out reading.

Think you should wait for the outcome of the EP report but agree with Laurie and it sounds as if they are trying to break it to you gently. You may have to accept your ds has SEN and be open to advice accordingly. It may be possible for them to cater for his needs in a ms environment but it may not, and 5 years is a fair shot at it so far. Resources to support whatever condition is hindering your child's learning may be more readily available in the unit. You could also ask if there are other options, such as him spending time in both or if this may be a short term proposal with a longer term plan to reintegrate him if successful.

Dear OP....I realy feel for you, God knows, but I think that you may have to face facts, difficult though they are.

His requirements are such that the mainstream teaching staff are no longer able to provide them, without taking a noteable chunk of their time and attention away from the rest of the class. You cannot expect them to do this.

I would feel exactly as you do, in your shoes...I really and truly would, but I think that ultimately you and your son will have to accept what you are being advised to do. You are allowing your prejudices to trump your sensibilites on this one.

I think you need some emotional support with this, I really do. xxx

crazy-thanks for your kind reply.

No if he went to the additional needs part of the school he would remain there for all classes-he would only mix with the whole school at playtimes/assembly etc. Of course I understand that he would make friends-as I said he mixes with these dc at playtimes anyway but I just dont think it would benefit him after 5 years to do this-what a knock to his self esteem!

He has no social problems btw-apart from as I mentioned being quite "young" for his age-though I should probably add that he is the second youngest in his class anyway so there are children in the class he is in now over a year older than him.

I dont know if the keeping him back a year is an option-only mentioned it as I know thats what they used to do. In scotland I think you then just carry on from where you are-so instead of going on to secondary school in 2014 it would be 2015?.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Sorry I got confused in my original post-I was told less than a year ago that he was a year behind in his literacy skills and approx 9 months behind his reading age. However this morning I was told that he is 3 years behind across the board

I do understand that my ds is sen-although I dont really agree with labelling children with terms such as development delay is that helpful. But I just dont see how lumping him in with dcs who have other serious problems-both educational,social and behavioural- will help him?.

I agree though, that deferring for a year could be an option?

Many other posts about children with SEN are along the lines of how hard it is to get the school to take their child's problems seriously, and how hard it is to get them a place at a school which meets their needs. Support and special needs provision is expensive and not offered without real reason - so although it's hard to come to terms with, your son's teachers must have real reasons for thinking he'd thrive and benefit more from the unit with extra support than in the mainstream class.

I agree with others: have a look at the SEN unit. Have a real look at what your son's attainment levels are, and what's expected for his age, and the year below and so on, and see where he genuinely fits in. If he's struggling, and continues to struggle in his current class, he is more likely to attach negative connotations to learning and school and to his own abilities than if he is taught in an enviromnet that suits his own learning needs.

Ah I see...cross posted there. So deferring for a year isn't going to be of much use then. That's a pity.

I should say that the teacher only suggested the additional needs as an option-she said it is entirely up to us. She also said that obviously ed psych has still to assess my ds to see if it is some form of development delay or if-in her words-this is just who he is.

Dont want to be accused of drip feeding but my ds was a small baby-he suffered from iugr-was slow to sit up,crawl,walk etc but gradually caught up. Do you think this could account for his slowness at learning?

If I was you and I could afford it, I would find an independent Ed Psych and get an independent assessment of what his needs are. That also may require checking his hearing, eyesight and a speech therapist assessment.
Other than he is struggling academically, what is the rational for SEN school? Is it Dyslexia, Auditory processing? SEN is a big wide world.......I don't think you can and should make any decisions, without outstanding from an independent qualified person, what the actual issues are.
I don't know how sen works here really (only just arrived), but my understanding is that the policy is to have children in mainstream if at all possible.

Unless their are big chiunks of info you aren't giving us, to me this sounds like it is the easiest option for the school, which does not actually mean it is the best outcome for your son.
Get more info, understand it as much as possible and then make your decision.
I too would not want my son going to a specialist SEN school unless it was the only/best option.

I agree best to wait until had some proper assessments. There could be some specific issues which can be addressed in mainstream class. They may at least be able to do a rough iq test., that would give some indication of whether it is a specific issue or a more general issue, this could then guide you. My dh was put in 'remedial' class for short while. He still remembers it now and how he didn't fit in. Turned out he was v short sighted. He now has 2 degrees, 1 MSc, 1 doctorate and finishing 2nd masters. Is there any option for you to try to find specialist tutor to help him? Might have more time than busy class teacher. Worth looking at unit to remain open minded but make it clear to school that you want to wait for assessments before making decisions

schnitzel-see this is exactly my concern-my ds enjoys school-I have been told by his teacher ,by his additonal needs teacher and by classroom assistant-that he is a lovely boy who,in their own words-works his wee socks off.

I am worried that if I now say to him after 5 years-you have to leave the class with all your friends and go into a class with dcs whose behaviour you may struggle to understand-that it will have completely the opposite effect and he will come to hate school

I am at myself becaue I always go to pieces in these meetings and never ask the right questions. For example this morning why didnt I ask why my ds seems to have gone from roughly a year behind to now being-in their opinion-3 years behind.

Or asking if a tutor would be helpful? I know it must sound as if I am really against sen dcs-I am not and I could come to terms with my ds being sen-but I am just really struggling to see how lumping my ds in with kids who have conditions such as autism.adhd etc will benefit him? simply because he seems to be a slow learner.

whatever you think, it does make sense for you to at least have a look at the sen unit, so that you can make an informed judgement, rather than just assume it wouldn't be right for him.

A tutor might help, but an independent EP might give you more clarity first.

I think many forget that school is not only about academic attainment, it is also about the social side as well.

Don't rule out the sen school - and educate yourself about it - do a tour. But if you feel it will be detrimental to his social development and his self-esteem,say no, I believe those are very big factors in your decision.

3 years behind is a lot.

The teachers in the other unit will have more experience of helping children who have problems like he does. (And probably significantly smaller classes)

His current teachers are floundering and telling you they're not doing a good job of teaching him.

If you want him to improve academically, you need to think about where he'd be best.

He already knows he's got problems, and is the bottom of the class.

I would ask for a meeting with the teacher and the senco and find out what they think the current situation is. How far behind is he, is the gap increasing or decreasing over time. Do they have a feel for what might be the cause.

It maybe that he has an underlying physical problem as a result iugr (eg has hearing and sight been thoroughly tested).

I would push very hard to get proper investigation and then decide how to take things from here. It maybe that a good time to move to a more sepcialised school would be at the normal transistion to senior school age - when all his peer group would be moving schools anyway. Then it would not be as likely to be seen as a failure on his part, more of a moving on to the best environment for him.

I have been to the additional needs unit-all parents are given a tour before the dcs start school as part of the schools inclusion policy.

I simply disagree that my ds will get more attention there-how could he when the teachers are having to deal with dcs who have major behavioural problems? My ds is completely socially normal,he just seems to be a bit "slow"-I know it is not pc to use that word nowadays but there you go.

What exactly will an ed pysch look for-again I know this is a question I should have asked school but I find they treat you so patronisingly and makes me really upset

indigo-thanks for pointing out that being 3 years behind is alot-I hadnt noticed I dont believe this to be a true reflection anyway.

But surely you need to see what differentiation the unit could offer in terms of meeeting individual needs. They won't lump all the children together and expect to use the same strategies for all. In the same way don't assume that all the other SEN children have serious behavioural issues which are detrimental to others' learning, some may well be similar to your ds. I fear you may inadvertently project this opinion onto your ds.

However until the EP identifies what his specific difficulties are, the barriers to his learning and what may help, it may not be possible to make an informed decision as to whether it would suit him to move or if one to one with a tutor would help short term to instill the basics. Do ask to visit it (if only to send a message of cooperation and open mindedness) so you can have a meaningful discussion once the EP report is in. I doubt they would be suggesting it unless all other avenues have been exhausted.

Your child will not make adequate progress if you leave him where he is.

School are telling you they can't teach him.

And he'll 'graduate' in a few years, 5 years behind, instead of the 3 years behind he is now.

The ration of adults to children in the other unit will be very high. And the teachers will know how to deal with the challenging pupils - and know how to teach them. It won't be chaos all day.

The EP will probably test his IQ, so that you know if he has a very low IQ, or if he has some other problem (like dyslexia for example) that is stopping him from learning.

here.

I think you really do need to have a meeting again with the school and get the facts - write down the questions before hand - maybe give them to them before the meeting so that they can get the figures and info up front for you.

Ask them what all the options would be - how it would work if he stays where he is, what would be better (or worse) if he moves to the SEN section.

You need to get more understanding of the situation before you can make a sensible decision on what to do.