small class sizes - yay or nay?

[mollysmum82]

I went to a private school open day today and the reception teacher said "basically what you are paying for are the small class sizes". Do you agree this is what people are mostly paying for with private education? And what is your opinion on small class sizes - do you worry that socially there is less "choice" of friends or do you think its worth it for the individual attention? I can't decide!

If that was really all you were paying for, I think you would be wasting your money, and I would be a bit worried about a teacher telling me that's all I would get for my £10,000 per year. Most parents who pay for private education probably believe they are also getting: better quality teaching, much better facilities (swimming pools, football pitches, etc), a wider education in terms of arts and music as well as literacy/numeracy, and much more sport: typically every day instead of two hours a week.

But obviously private schools vary widely and not all of them will give you all of this.

On your second question about whether small class sizes are a good thing, yes I think they are but only up to a point. I've got dc at a small state primary with tiny class sizes. When we joined the school I was overjoyed about this, but now I can see both sides of the picture. They do get more inividual attention and teaching time, and progress academically more quickly because of this, but it can lead to problems forming friendships if there are not enough like-minded children in the class. I think if the class numbers dip below, say, 15, then it can get tricky on the social side.

I think many parents see small class sizes as a positive when considering schools but I'm not sure it is the most important factor to a parent. Having been educated in a very small class I think there is a point where small can be a negative.

The school in question has class sizes of 10 (sometimes a little over or a little under)

Thank you for your responses btw

Tuttifutti, thanks for your reply. The school certainly doesn't have swimming pools or football pitches. It does offer swimming at the local leisure centre and other extra curricular activities (drama, ballet at an extra price) but then so do many state schools probably. What I liked about it was the warm friendly atmosphere and the fact the DD would get a lot more individual attention in class sizes of ten . What concerned me though was that one year there were 9 girls and 1 boy! This could easily be reversed, which would worry me. And I do worry about the social aspect in general.

Mrz thanks for your post, I'm really sorry you found it a negative.

I have had a child join my class this term who was previously in a class of 8 who is struggling socially ... much happier playing with the younger children at break times. Very quiet in class and really struggling academically to keep up with the rest of the class in literacy and numeracy.

agree with tutti frutti. ds1 was until recently at a private school with 18 in his class, was a nice number and they all got on, and plenty of choice of friends. he's just moved to a state school, very small village school and it's lovely, but there are only 12 in his year, of which i think only 4 are boys. he's only got one more year to go before 2ndary school, but if he had any longer to stay, the very small class and skew towards girls would bother me.

I think smaller class size is good - DS was in a class of 17 last year in a state school which I think was great but now he is in year 3 the classes have recombined and there are 34 in the class. While he seems to be fine I could imagine it would be easy for a child to get a bit "lost" in that class.

DD was in a class of 11 from September to December last year as she was an older one in Reception and they had two intakes then. She seemed fine (and wasn't seemingly bothered about there being a lot more boys than girls).

I would possibly worry slightly about long time sustainability of a private school with only 10 children per year (or are there more and they have divided into smaller classes?). It would only take a few children to start leaving and the school could have a problem.

2 of my dc go to a very small school.they get on fantastically well,no one is left behind and teaching seems to be more personalised(compared to dd's old primary).my only worry is how they will cope when they move up to secondary school.

Here's my opinion on class sizes.

All other things being equal, a class of 15 will be "better" than a class of 30. There will still be enough children that each child will form a good friendship/little group of friends. As a class gets smaller than 15 ish, there is going to be a smaller pool of friends and it will get to a point where friendships are not ideal/some children cannot find any children who they fit with. Also, watch out for huge imbalances of boys/girls. eg if there are 2 or 3 boys in a class - that is potentially not great for their friendships - although you might get lucky and the child might be a perfect fit with the other 2.

It is true that you pay for class sizes. You might or might not pay for better facilities - depends on the private school - some are on very tight budgets. I know of a private school with really out of date, battered reading books and another private school which shares council facilities. Conversely, I know of a state school which has a pool and a state school which has much better reading books than the private school I mentioned above. You have to judge the school itself rather than the sector because it can vary hugely.

I am a great believer in small class sizes. Ds has 11 , but there are 2 classes in the year so lots of opportunities for sport and friendships.

I'm a huge believer in bigger classes and would not want my children in a small class.

1. In a larger class more likely that you won't be the top or bottom of the class. In a class of 10 your child could e very average and yet be the bottom of the class - or the top of the class. In a class of 30 this is obviously less likely to happen.

1. Friendships

1. Too much support. My DD has had far too much support, because all of her teachers have used the TA to support the weaker kids - and it's really bad for her. She never gets towork independently.

1. Too much focus. This can really pressurise a kid.

I'm probably weird (and my children certainly are) but I think variety is a good thing - and so is independence. So I would not choose a school with less than 20 or so kids.

I agree with Indigo.
Classes can be too small. DS is one of only 8. It makes for very dull social activity and tedious micro-managing by staff. They faff around them constantly and the kids never get a break from being scrutinised and judged.
I am about to move him and I am actively seeking larger schools with bigger class sizes.

And I am amazed that 'small class size' isn't being cited as the Holy Grail!

20 is a lovely class size IMHO

I have been thinking about class sizes too. Dd was in a class of 29 and It really wasn't good for her academically. I did consider moving her to a school with smaller classes. However, I believed long term it wouldn't do her any favours as at secondary class sizes will be bigger. Now in a class of 22 and this is great.

I would agree with the comment about 15 being good. I think it comes down to what you want from a school. For me no SATS, wider diversity of languages taught from a very early age, more sport (both number of hours and wider range) and specialist teaching came above class size.

My 4 year old attends a small village state school and is in a class of 8. It seems to work brilliantly as the older children are encouraged and seem happy to get involved with the younger ones, so my child socialises with all age groups. I worry about sustainability but thankfully it's ofsted status is keeping it safe for now. My main worry is going from a small primary to a large seconday with large class sizes will be a shock to the system.

Anything bless than 15 is too small. iMHO- and after observing a huge range of children and their education in various roles over a long life.

I undertsthink it depends on the school and the age of child. My childs school keeps thing open plan, so more than one year can be together at one time though the teaching is targeted at each age range. It just means that there is the social feel of larger classes but the benefits of more individual teaching.

I agree with Mrz, again. 20 is perfect, from a teacher's point of view. Enough to get good discussions going and for kids to bounce ideas off each other. They get more individual attention, but not too much that they can no longer work independently. Fewer children make teaching harder- the teacher has to work much harder to get ideas from the children, and can have a knock on effect on friendships. More than 20 is too much marking!

"undertsthink". I know this was a typo- but what a brilliant word! Definitely fills a gap in the dictionary!

"Understhink"- dictionary definition is "inability to think and type at the same time" :o

I have heard other parents (in private schools) list small class sizes as their number one concern. I think it's a bit blinkered too, tbh.

DS-y7 is in a tiny private school (year group/class size about 13) & I find same +s and -s others mention. Helps with DS's social problems, suspect it's not so good that DS is very high ability compared to almost everybody else (he had many similar or higher ability peers in state school).

DC had class sizes of about 21-22 in the past in their state school.

Its been so interesting reading your responses, thank you. I've only ever heard the positives of small class sizes being talked about.