small class sizes - yay or nay?

[mollysmum82]

I went to a private school open day today and the reception teacher said "basically what you are paying for are the small class sizes". Do you agree this is what people are mostly paying for with private education? And what is your opinion on small class sizes - do you worry that socially there is less "choice" of friends or do you think its worth it for the individual attention? I can't decide!

How small is small. Less than 15 is rather too small for friendships imho and small classes doesn't necessarily equate to better teaching.

at 30+ per class
Around 20 seems ideal and dd is in a class of 24 which I think is okay.

nice thought lingle
however back to reality ...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15430189
www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/1100395/Early-years-spending-cut-20-per-cent/

I like smaller classes, but I wouldn't want to drop below 12 as a minimum. I think for KS1 I'd see 15-20 as ideal, probably going up to 18-24 in KS2, although I admit I have pulled those numbers out of thin air.

DD2 in particular would benefit from smaller classes as she's deaf in one ear and while this isn't likely to materially affect her life in general she will find it difficult to hear against a background of lots of people/general background noise. Then again, I suppose even 12 four-year-olds can be pretty darn noisy when they put their mind to it.

Class sizes aren't the main factor in achievement and raising standards.

What raises standards in schools is strong leadership and good/outstanding teaching.

I've taught classes from 12 - 30. 12 is much too small. It's just too pressured and intense (for both the children and teacher) and actually, if I'm honest, I found it a bit boring.

22-25 is my ideal number, but 30 is fine too, as long as you have at least one well trained teaching assistant.

Have just moved my DC (y4 and Y2) to a private school.

Class size was a BIG factor.

Once children are in y3, class sizes in state schools can go up to 35 and bigger. DS was in a class of 36 last year. He was slipping through the net big time (being 1-2 years behind where he should be) for various reasons.

It was not the only factor though...

My other DS was fine in his class of 30, and is now fine in his class of 16.

Guess it depends on the child.

Bear in mind that YR class size may be 10, but y2 and 3 may see a sudden uptake. My oldest DS was once of 4 new children in his year (previously 11 kids) who were "failed" by the state system and then moved age 7/8. It happens a lot apparently around that age.

The 'is a smaller class better than a large class' question is a bit like the 'is a private school better than a state school' one - it depends on too many variables about the child and the class to have a simple answer.

• Is the small class a singe year group or a mixed class?
• How many adults are there in the class?
• Is the teacher any good??
• Are the children of similar ability, or is there a very wide range, and is your child in the middle of the ability range or at one extreme? (My DS, who sits at one end of the ability spectrum, has thrived in a class of 30 in a year group of 60 in a way he didn't in a year group of 20: he has peers who he learns with)?
• Are the children taught always as a whole class, or are there smaller groups within the class (I have a friend who teaches in the private sector. Her class is smaller than mine, but she teaches them as a single group, and they do identical worksheets. My class has 4 smaller teaching groups (which differ by subject and work on differentiated activities). I would suggest that in terms of 'getting the teaching they need' it is the smaller group size and not the whole class size that may make the difference)
• Are there any special factors at play - deafness, social issues, ASD etc

There is no blanket answer..

Mrz - thanks for your comments. As far as I can tell, the children sit in groups but it's noisy and they seem to spend a lot of time comparing each others' work rather than concentrate on their own. Punctuation, phonics etc is done by whole class teaching but obviously it would be nice if some children didn't just 'get on with it' for a whole hour without any input. Some children do need that extra encouragement.

I think in the primary years a class size of 20 would appeal to most teachers. Of course it isn't the determining factor of the school's success. In China my friend taught a class of 40 (but she says there weren't any of the discipline problems you have here and all children were given the same work to do).

I am sure most people on mumsnet would agree that a class of 20 four year olds would really benefit both the teachers and children. They are still so little at that age...

Small classes are just one of the many reasons I pay for school. I do think a class of 10 is too small. My DS was in a class of nine at his old school and, while it worked for him, it didn't work for others (particularly not the girls). My children are now in classes of 18 and 19, which seems a good number. As I say, though, that's just part of the package.

12 in reception last year - far too small, very socially limiting - for parents and children !
Mixed year 1 and 2 class, 28 children - hopeless age gap of up to two years, incredibly difficult to differentiate the work, socially odd - five year olds acting like seven year olds and vice versa.

Ds2 - reception, 22 in class - heaven !

As an aside OP - can't see why your opting for private ?
If tiny classes are not tempting you and the extra facilities/classes are no different to things you could pay for anyway - why go private ?

Dd in class of 11, ds only 7 in the class, 6 boys and 1 girl. DDs class is lovely, they really do all play together, boys and girls. The small number I feel allows for a calm environment to learn. She now has confidence and is not labelled. In prev state school she had iep in the past and felt stupid, her own words. Now she is so confident and I the burden of worry has been lifted for me too.

It depends on the child I think though. Small numbers suit mine.

There is no way that I would let my child be the only girl inn her class. Or the only boy.

"I am sure most people on mumsnet would agree that a class of 20 four year olds would really benefit both the teachers and children. They are still so little at that age..."

It depends whether they are in a class of 20 with just a teacher, or a class of 30, but with a teacher and a teaching assistant.

I think the ratio is more important than simply the number in the class (and the quality of the teaching, obviously)

Hi RosemaryandThyme, thanks for your question. I guess because our catchment school is low in the league tables, low on "value added" and five of my original mum friends have moved areas to get away from it. I'm not from the area so I don't have the same local knowledge as they do. We bought a new house which has dropped at least £30K in value over the last five years so we couldn't afford to move - private school is actually more affordable. The private school we looked at had a warm lovely feel to it but was lacking in facilities (well, certainly for what you pay). And had class sizes of between 8 and 15 (sometimes with all but one boy and vice versa) which would worry me socially.

In my experience as a teacher,15- 20 is the ideal class size. Big enough for group activities, not so big that you can't give enough individual attention. Below 15 can be too small sometimes depending on the age and the subject.