5yr old boy hitting

[pauldoc]

I'm new to this so please bear with me!!
Having a bit of trouble with our son in year one. He has a habit of hitting and kicking other children in his class. It actually started in reception but has continued this year. The school is getting complaints from a couple of parents, one in particular, who happens to be his best friends parents!! Oh and his best friend is a girl. (infact most of his friends are girls, he doesnt like the boys)However these parents are not the niceset of people and have been upsetting my wife by questioning her parenting skills and veiled threats to the school about 'sorting it out themselves'. I am not condoning my son's behaviour in any way and we are devastated by the trouble being caused. We have spoken to the school and are prepared to do anything to get this sorted. He is a good natured polite clever boy for the most part but i do believe he is at the end of the day 5 years old. i have read other thread where the word bullying is used and i guess it is a form of it but its not a word that 5 year olds in my opinion totally understand. We continually tell him its not right to hit or be mean and he agrees but still does it!! With little remorse when told off. I think the school think its normal 5 year old boy behaviour and are dealing with it but the parents of his best friend are not happy and want action. any suggestions?

If I were the friend's parent I 'd ask school to keep him well away from her until he learns how he should behave. Meanwhile, you have the task of trying to help him understand. Star charts for good behaviour? Withdrawal of treats for bad behaviour? Talking to him about why he's hitting/kicking? Can he describe how he would feel to be on the receiving end of this unkind behaviour? Why does he think anyone will want to put up with this behaviour and still want to be his friend? Really doesn't help if her parents are commenting on your wife's parenting skills but both you and the school should be taking steps to ensure the other child is not hurt further. Good luck!

Can i ask do you punish him at home when he kicks/hits other children ?

I think that you have to solve this in partnership with the school. I would sincerely hope that you have misunderstood the school and that the school does NOT consider this normal behaviour for a five year old and not condone such behaviour. Because it is NOT normal behaviour! Ideally you agree a strategy involving rewards and punishments with school, in which school each day tells you if he has been good at school or has had aggressive outbursts. This needs to be tackled in a systematic and consistent way, it should not be condoned or laughed at. I think such behaviour is absolutely unacceptable and I do understand why the other parents are upset, nothing to do with them being nice or not. Can you find out what triggers his outbursts? Does he watch violent TV/dvds he might be copying? Does he ever get hit/kicked himself at home/siblings/others? This behaviour must have a cause and a trigger, so it is now a matter of trying to find the cause and the trigger.

We have a similar situation with a boy who is pretty much a total violent nightmare in my Y4 sons class. It's been going on since pre-school. You do sound like pro-active parents, but the school should NOT treat this as normal 5yo behaviour. I can fully understand the other parents feelings as I have very similar ones towards this boy in my sons class and his parents. He now rarely gets invited to parties/playdates by us or anyone else. If the school is not working with you very actively to recify the issue PDFQ, then you and your son will become very unpopular. Sorry to put it so bluntly. He IS ony 5, but you would be wise to stop it going any further. Good luck.

This is not 'normal' behaviour for a 5 year old provided there are no SEN reasons that may hinder communication. If he is mostly hurting one particular child almost daily, the school are likely to view it as bullying.

The school will put strategies into place (which may include him being isolated from the class for part of the day) but you need to back these up at home. The reason others question your parenting skills (and it is both of you, not just her) is because you may not be as consistent in enforcing boundaries as you think you are.

We continually tell him its not right to hit or be mean and he agrees but still does it!! With little remorse when told off - you need to find a way to make him remorseful. Put him in a time out, remove his favourite toys, restrict his television, whatever is going to make him feel sad. It has to matter to him. He needs to have very real consequences. He needs to know when you do x this is what happens. You need to be consistent every single time. Eventually he will understand that x = not good. The more consistent you are, the quicker he will learn.

If you give in to his sad face, or think well it's been dealt with at school, or just don't bother to follow through, guess who will lose out in the end? Your son. His behaviour will continue year on year and the bigger he gets, the harder it will be to stop it.

What do you usually do with him at home when he misbehaves. Who disciplines him and how?

Btw, well done for seeking advice. You obviously do want to help your son. Hope we haven't scared you off.

Thank you all for taking time to reply and your comments.
I think this is obviously an emotive subject for many and i understand that.
Can i just start by saying that we are not taking his behaviour lightly and neither is the school. It just seems to be one of those difficult situations.
We are punishing him and being consistant. I dont want to belittle the situation but we have not been aware of the extent of what has been going on because we wasnt being told. My wife regularly asks his teacher for an update and they have felt they had it under control with missed play etc.
Can I just say this isnt an everyday uccurance and the school are not underestimating what is going on but in there words my son and this girl are thick as thieves and as bad as each other. Now i know that is not an excuse and a few of you may disagree. We tell him everyday to behave and for the most part he does. These incidents seem to occur more out of his frustration and we are trying to teach him to control his emotions. My point is these things dont happen overnight with a 5 year old and the school understand that to. We are working together and implementing all the suggestions given, hopefully we will get there!!

Not sure why you posted in the first place then. If you think the school are dealing with it and you are doing everything you can to support them at home.

I think the school think its normal 5 year old boy behaviour and are dealing with it but the parents of his best friend are not happy and want action. any suggestions?

Perhaps you were asking for suggestions regarding how to handle the parents of his best friend?

Well said ScareyFairenuff! I agree with you. I believe that unless a 5 year old has learning difficulties it is not normal for him/her to hit other children.
It is easy enough to teach a five year old a lesson.
Be firm and do something that he will remember...let him cry...he will remember that too. Time out, sending to room. no t.v, no toys, pick what he likes most. Don't give in too early..let him suffer the consequences for long enough...like an entire evening.
Set firm boundaries, be consistent and stick with it. Children do know right from wrong at five and they will see what they can get away with....it's part of growing up! This kind of behaviour needs to be dealt with early...a five year old hitting another child is not good...but if left uncorrected he will continue to do that as he moves up the school.

Op i do hope you manage to nip your ds's behaviour in the bud now . Speaking as a mum who's ds was so badly bullied he threatened to commit suicide last year , please don't underestimate the effect bullying behaviour can have on other children . Even as young as 5yr olds . At the end of the day it's not your child who comes home crying .
Good luck .

thanks again for all the comments......we will sort this

no its my wife who is coming home crying

Your wife is an ADULT and as such I'm sure she will cope .

That's a bit harsh RedRumMum. THe guy was asking for advice, for a tricky situation. No need to be snippy.

didn't mean to be snippy , i'll leave this thread now . Good luck op .

Why do you think it's normal 5 year old behaviour when your son is in a class of presumably 30 children but he's the only one doing it?

OP is it the other parents' attitude towards your wife that is upsetting her or is it the fact that your son is hurting others?

It is a tricky situation because during school hours you are not there to reprimand him yourself so you can only deal with things after they have happened which is not ideal at such a young age.

If other parents are unhappy with your child's behaviour this can make pick up time quite daunting. On top of that there is the talk with the teacher about what has happened that day which can also make your heart sink.

I would suggest that if you want to talk to the other child's parents you ask if this could be done as a meeting between parents with the teacher present so that you can agree a plan of action. No point getting into an argument with parents. The children will probably be the best of friends the next day anyway.

In the meantime, perhaps some kind of star chart with rewards for good behaviour days and withdrawal of privileges on not good behaviour days?

You need to work with the school so they can use adequate punishments when he acts this way

I dont think redrummum was being snippy she was trying to make the point of being in the other parents shoes, its not nice

Op - we have had very similar situation except not involving girls which I guess makes it even more emotive. I have come home in tears many times. Have had parents verbally assault both me and my son over alleged incidents some of which the school have not advised me about. I like yourselves dont condone it at all and fully support school.

I was at wits end and got referral to CAMHS but school told them there was no issue it was normal behaviour for a 5 year old boy!! This was despite other parents reacting much in the way you describe. Not sure if school wanted a cover up in case it looked bad on their outstanding ofsteds and zero bullying or if they really think it is normal but I couldnt believe that they denied nearly everything. Even when I showed CAMHS the records in parent diary it was deemed to be within normal boundaries despite the reactions I was getting from other parents. Really hard to know if it is normal or not, I thought it was unacceptable and as we were blanked by most parents and my son excluded from everything I felt it was very serious. I certainly wouldnt recommend the CAMHS route as I ended up being portrayed as an over anxious mother who was over critical of her son not the outcome I expected, I thought they would address the anger or socialisation issue.

I would also have described some of the parents as not the nicest of people because of these type of comments about sorting it out whereas parents should trust the school to deal with it and tell their children to report it to the teacher not make threats to other parents in the playground, hardly sets a good example to their children.

It is helpful if school can record the trigger, ours didnt. Our incidents appeared to be either when he was being name called and then reacted with violence or when he was left out as he struggled with friendships. Also he is extremely bright and is not on the same wave length and gets on much better with the older children at school. It all sounds like excuses but really i was desperate to get appropriate help as no punishments worked. Removal of all rewards, treats, toys, outings, whatever anyone suggested gained absolutely no reaction at all. He would never show that he cared at all. He has certainly never seen violence at home in real life or on TV and has never played computer games.

Redrummum ? I was not coping I was absolutely desperate as had no idea of the cause and had school not supporting me and I was not able to find any consequences that worked I couldnt cope as an adult and he was desperately unhappy. There must be a reason for these behaviours and I think other parents should be a bit supportive whilst child is assessed. CAMHS assessed my sons IQ in top 1% and some of his issues were no doubt down to huge frustration due to struggling at school in addition to the social interaction issues. School had stated to me that they couldnt find any rewards or consequences that worked so I know it wasnt just me.

Really think we should support parents who are posting to get help for their children, they are not telling them to go into school and fight.

I think everyone has given you a really rough time here!

You're clearly taking the issue seriously, you've asked the school for advice and you're on here asking for advice- all that you're getting is a real roasting!

In my opinion although it is completely unaccceptable (and no one would condone it) it IS normal behaviour- show me the child that has never hit/kicked/bitten/scratched another child and that would be the 'abnormal' child.

Every individual has to learn that you can't solve problems with violence, it takes some longer than others.

5 year old boys are very physical and often far less emotionally mature than girls of the same age, the challenges of conforming to the higher expectations of year 1 can be harder for some children than others. I know my ds (5.6) is finding Y1 so very much harder to get used to than my dd did when it was her turn. This is in no way condoning any aggressive behaviour, but you have to accept that it does happen and underlying it is a child that isn't coping well in their environment.

One of my ds' very good friends has this problem and although he is actually a lovely (and I think quite sensitive boy) he has big problems with hitting other children. I would in no way describe him as a bully, he's struggling to adjust and his parents are struggling to help him deal with his frustration in better ways- but it is not always as simple as 'reward chart + consequences + good talking to = perfect child.

I would recommend trying to work out, with school's help, if there are any particular triggers (time of day, activity) where your ds is more likely to lash out. Suggest a home/school diary so you can communicate good or bad days. You don't mention how he is outside of school, maybe with brothers/sisters friend's children is he laible to lash out?

I am sorry if i came across as being snippy . I let my ds's experiences cloud my judgement as his life was made hell in primary school and it all started from the age of 5 . It got worse with every year the children got older .
He still suffers from anxiety attacks as a result .
Op - i wish you well with dealing with all of this .

popgoestheweezel

I think everyone has given you a really rough time here! - Really?

You're clearly taking the issue seriously, you've asked the school for advice and you're on here asking for advice- all that you're getting is a real roasting!
I disagree! I think there has been some well thought out and balanced advice. Which part of it would you call a 'roasting'? People have given their time to share their experiences and thoughts, from differing aspects and to casually dismiss their views as 'wrong', is more than a little arrogant don't you think?

In my opinion although it is completely unaccceptable (and no one would condone it) it IS normal behaviour - how can this behaviour be 'completely unacceptable' AND 'normal'.

Whilst it is true that there are often one or two children with this type of challenging behaviour in a class it is not the norm. If it were, schools would be full of children fighting each other all day long with the 'abnormal' non-violent child sitting quietly on their own.

The standard expected for 5 year olds without SEN is that they will not intentionally hurt another child. They occasionally do but if it is frequent and the school need to take measures such as segregating the child, then it is a problem which is out of the ordinary run of the mills squabbles.

The school also has a duty to keep children safe and will make a decision on whether it is bullying or not, regardless of parents' opinions.

There is no one, simple solution but poster are just making suggestions, as requested by the OP.

Another idea which may be of use to you is (if you haven't already) run through some different scenarios with your child using the trigger that causes him to lash out.

Eg if your child lashes out when he's frustrated then gradually expose him to situations that are frustrating eg waiting for your turn, waiting in a restaurant. Model for him the correct behaviour whilst acknowledging his feelings. Then praise him for doing the right thing.

If your child lashes out due to anger then watch for moments at home when he is angry but does not hit then name the behaviour and praise him to how he's handled his feelings.

If your child lashes out because he's lost a game then play a game with him eg monopoly where you lose. Model for him appropriate behaviour if you lose. Talk about being a good sport. Then have a turn where he loses and comment on his behaviour eg I can see it's really hard for you because you really wanted to win that Monopoly game. But what's really important here is being a good loser. I can see you're being a good loser because....

You could reinforce the positive comments with eg marbles so every time you see him not lash out when he's angry he earns praise and marbles. A full marble jar earns him a day trip to the beach, an hour alone with his mum, a new book - or whatever works for him.

Using the above idea then you're attempting to mould his behaviour. Simply telling him not to do something is not enough.

Also, I think it could be useful for you/your wife to keep a log of incidents. What you need to do is to aim for progress not perfection eg child hits 4 days a week, this goes down to twice a week, once a week, once a fortnight, once a term. This is a really useful tool both for yourself and others to see that things are moving forward.

I think for lots of posters your post stirred up very confronting emotions but I can see that you are a concerned parent who wants to take on board practical advice.

Try to focus on positive reinforcement and make a huge effort to catch your child being good. Best of luck with it all.

JackyJax
'I think for lots of posters your post stirred up very confronting emotions'
a bit of an understatement!!!
thank you for your comments, some really helpful suggestions there

soonbexmas
It sounds like our sons are from the same pod!!
thank you for you support, I think all I was looking for was someone who understood. Keep in touch let me know how you get on.
Think this post may upset some people!!