Same children always picked - why?

[carocaro]

Out of a year of just under 60 the same children are always picked to do speeches in assembly, be on the school council, take the lead in plays, be on the school teams. No one else ever seems to get a go at anything! I have asked why only to be told 'children have to learn to accept disappointment'.

Why is this the case?

I have named changed for this as there is a chance someone I know could see this but in some cases the reason is because the little dears are the children of the TA's and the head of the friends commitee

Sorry, Acepsmama, but I think that is bollocks.

Try having two children at school (year 2 and year 4) in the same classes as the two daughters of one of the teachers. It's just awful, cringeworthy and embarrassing. So far this term the daughters have between them won:

• the poetry competition (performing, not writing)
• the "design the firework night ticket" competition
• the holiday diary competition
• student of the week three weeks out of the six so far this term.

It's actually really sad because at the prizegiving assembly last year so many of the parents were rolling their eyes it took the shine off the event. The girls literally cleaned up between them. It's not so much the academic prizes, it's all the little competitions and challenges the children are set during the year which the same two girls always, always win.

And if there's a prize they DON'T win (such as the spelling bee, where it was decided on scores and so obvious who had won and who hadn't), guess what the teachers did? They awarded a "special commendation" certificate for effort to one of the girls, who came about fifth in her class - and which they'd never done before. Embarrassing.

at cat64.

Dd1 was Mary at prechool and very cross because she wanted to be an angel with her friend (it was done entirely on age and she was the oldest). She pushed Jesus down face first into the straw and refused to turn him over.

I think an important underlying point is that the school needs to have enough going on so that, over a year, everyone gets a chance to do something.

So that means playlets in class (or whole school) assemblies as well as whole year plays, concerts, gigs at the summer fete, as many sports teams as can be arranged with children discreetly rotated in and out of the B team if the A is merit selected, gym displays, dance displays, (house based?) choral speaking competitions, etc etc etc.

Shortage of rehearsal time, easiest to grab the child they know will do a reasonable job.
DD2 is very likely to be given prayers etc. because she's guaranteed to read it correctly. I'm sure lots of others in her class could do it perfectly too.

savethedate - now THAT is different.

I think that your school is not an exception. Our school always chooses the same children for plays/announcements/shows/etc.

It is a combination of lack of time to rehearse (and to coach shy children to become more confident) and plain laziness on behalf of some teachers.

IMO this totally defeats the whole purpose of these events, I think that if you don't allow and enable all children to have a go over their school career then it would be better not to bother. At our school it are usually the kids at stagecoach who get all the parts in the plays, makes me very sad TBH. However, I am in a minority of one it seems at my school.

What you have mentioned is known as the Mathew effect.

The children who are precieved to be bright get more opportunites. They get more practice at acting, music and praise. They become more confident and that confidence breeds sucess. They are the sort of children who are put in the top groups.

Conversely the children who are precieved to lack ablity are given less chances. They fail to develop because they aren't nutured.

Yet the top table child in reception may be a september born girl and the bottom table child might be an august born boy with the some level of natural ablity.

Prehaps what is a sad is that the mathew effect extends to social skills. A child who is deemed a social reject will remain a social reject.

My son, who attended the school where I teach NEVER won a prize for anything academic simply because other parents might perceive it to be unfair, this despite the fact that he achieved the highest marks in the school for his reading, writing, maths and science SAts at the end of year 6 and was the only one who passed the 11 plus too. Now I could understand that there were others equally deserving but when he wasn't given any of the yr 6 academic achievement prizes ( normally given to those who achieved the highest SATs marks) I was told it was because the school might be thought to be favouring him above any others. So it can work both ways!

savethedate
I think as a teacher, I would NOT want my child to win so much (even if they were 'a clear winner') as they would always be accused of 'winning due to association'.
I totally understand that in the situation that you described, many parents would be 'rolling their eyes' as it's hard to think anything else. But as the children become older, their peers will make connections and friendships will begin to suffer. It would be interesting to find out what the children's teacher-parent thought about it. In my experience (and I teach a colleague's son), they tend to hate their children being launched into the spotlight because they know someone would be saying "It's because he/she is Mr/Mrs .... son/daughter".

As for the OP's question:
Sometimes (depending on the school and the policy), the same children are 'picked' because they are the ones who put themselves forward or volunteer to do it. In my class I chose the school councillor (I know, totally against democracy but they are only Y1) as he did volunteer and I thought it may increase his confidence. But after 20 minutes he started to cry and chose not to do it anymore. I wasn't going to torture a 5-year-old and make him! As for 'narrators or speakers' - it's no good choosing a child who doesn't have the confidence, commitment, ability to read/memorise, perform or voice projection. Performances are about quality and we tend to volunteer or choose children who show particular talent in that area. Everyone has something they are good at and it's best to nurture it rather than force it upon someone who may clearly falter.

I've just introduced the nativity play with my Y1s this afternoon. I noted what their parts were in reception so that there is some movement. As the important parts of Mary and Joseph, the kings, the shepherds and the angels are usually 'non-speaking' we tend to give these to children who have a shy nature and are unlikely to be in the spotlight when they are older due to lack of ability or shyness. We've already decided that 'Mary' will go to a selective mute because it's probably her one and only time to shine and it doesn't involve her speaking.

I think as children get older, you'll notice more and more that the same children get 'picked' for roles that have similar qualities and roles.

This is interesting as my DD goes to a stage school on Saturdays but rarely gets picked for speaking parts in school shows etc.

I gently explain that the school likes to give other children a chance to do what you do on a Saturady.

TBH I struggle to understand why a confident child who is good at performing never gets picked.....

My DDs primary school takes the opposite POV and has the quiet timid children pushed into the public speaking which I agree with wholeheartedly.The ones who don't do singing lessons are encouraged to sing the solos if they want, and the ones who don't do stagecoach are given the lead roles.
English GCSE has a large 'spoken' component and it is unfair not to get children used to it at an early age.
Also the teachers pick the school council

Also in many schools it depends on the parents to some extent.Some parents can be very sharp elbowed and i can well understand that on some occasions teachers just take the line of least resistance.

I think the teachers' are damned if they do and damned if they don't - if they are in charge of a class assembly, play etc... I guess they (and the children) want it to be successful and if they know they have reliable children who will deliver it makes sense to choose those ones. It is a bit annoying but maybe after viewing the children throughout their primary education it becomes apparent that those children are chosen for a reason - they speak loudly, clearly and are sensible. This happens in DS's class - DS mumbles and speaks quickly so doesnt get the 'big' parts - used to annoy us but now I realise that public speaking is not his thing. Also, often those who are the confident ones tend to put themselves forward and thus it becomes a self-fulfilling thing...they are confident, they put themselves forward for the lead parts, get more confident, get more opportunities etc....

Whilst it is endearing with the little ones when they get all shy and forget their words in public, as they get older it becomes embarrassing for all concerned but especially the pupils, who maybe don't have the natural confidence or the inclination to do public speaking related things, when they forget/stumble on their words etc...

Interestingly, there seems to be a link with another thread about the youngest borns in classes being regarded as low achievers. Thinking about both DCs classes (and I am making generalisations so don't shoot me down!) it does tend to be the Autumn born ones who are the confident ones and do get chosen for main parts - read into that what you will.

Also, you are right, Spiderpig8, about the parents' factor too! Middle class parents can be very pushy in school and out and they will bring their children up to put themselves forward - and so it goes on.... Again, in DCs classes it does tend to also be the more middle-class children who get chosen..... - is it confidence or that natural-entitlement thing which rubs off on the teachers with whom these children come into contact.

I guess there is also another issue about the bright and the popular children getting extra confidence from being bright and popular thus making them and the teachers have greater belief (not always correctly) in their skill-sets....

I think a lot of it is down to the children.

quite a lot of them don't like being in the spotlight (my DS1 doesn't! He freezes and turns bright red, then stammers.) It is painful to watch, but think his teacher is great for encouraging him to do it. I was proud of him, and have promised him he won't have to do it again soon.

I have a friend who goes in every year to lobby with the teacher for her DD to be Mary .

The teacher made her a sheep.

Friend thinks that now daughter is 8, it was about time she was Mary, so she's going in again this year. Some parents ARE pushy even if they are nice otherwise.

my DS was a "wave" last year and quite happy with that.

in my school all the parts go to the kids whose parents are in the pta.
personally i think they should take it in turns regardless of ability,this is primary school not sylvia young.

Mum2be79's choice of Mary brought back memories of DD2's nursery nativity where the teacher cast the very shy girl as Mary. This allowed her to sit cuddling baby Jesus looking across at Joseph not at the audience. The teacher very carefully staged it so all the action took place between her and the audience, well we are scary.
(Well I am, DD2 and this young lady are still great friends, they are now 10 and she still a bit jumpy with adults, even if she knows them)

A friend of mine was moaning that her DD was not picked so the teacher picked her and the poor child was terrified and muffled the words and the mother was upset. Sometimes the teachers may just pick the child who they think will not be too terrified. My DS would have never wanted to be picked because he was very shy but as he got older asked to do it himself and finally is able to do it confidently. The teachers should really spread it around but base it on how the child will cope and not whether their mom or dad is desperate to see them. My DD is up there like a shot, loud and clear and I admit I do get a bit embarassed that she is often picked but as she has stuggled in other things it is something that gives her a lot of condidence.

There seems to be no age bias at our school as the younger ones appear to be the clearer spoken and are often in the school plays.