Having a word with teacher re: tricky subject

[montrealmum]

Looking for some advice about how to have a tricky conversation with a teacher...

My son is a young Year Two (just turned six at the end of the summer) and I am a little concerned about his current Year Two teacher's attitude towards discipline.

He comes home just about every day reporting he has lost Golden Time or been shouted out for a range of seemingly minor infractions, such as reading the wrong book or wriggling in his seat.

While I have no problem with the teacher enforcing rules, it concerns me that he didn't seem to have any behaviour issues with his previous teacher and I don't want his experience with Year Two to get off to such a negative start.

Also, I have a friend who used to be a T.A. in this class last year, and she has reported that this teacher shouts at the children a lot.

Can anyone recommend a way of approaching the topic with her that is to the point, but not offensive or accusatory - I don't want to make things worse by alienating her, but I don't think constantly shouting at six year old boys for minor, and let's face it, entirely age-appropriate misdoings is the best behaviour management technique.

Any suggestions?

Did you miss it where the OP said the TA worked with the teacher in another school sun? So the OP wouldn't know it was the same teacher unless the friend had specifically told her ...

and does it matter what the OPs job is?

mrz - well yes, it does to the extent that it provides a rebuttal to Feenie's comments.

maybe its best if you re-read the thread

sun I have re read it and still believe the OPs job has no relevance to the unprofessional behaviour of this TA and why if the OP is so well aware of her son's teacher behaviour did she need to listen to tittle tattle from her friendly TA? perhaps you should re read and question the inconsistencies

A lot of teachers worried about what their TA's say about them! I would think if you are an excellent teacher, who treats the children in your care with understanding, compassion and respect whilst encouraging the children to reach their full potential the TA would have only positive things to say about them, or would that also be unprofessional - just a thought. Look at the children as they come into the classroom in the mornings, I would think that tells you all you need to know.

I'm afraid you have misunderstood what people are saying whatdoesthisbuttondo. I doubt there are many teachers who worry about what the TA in their class says about them because most teachers know the TA is a professional who will raise any concerns with them or with SMT so that the issue can be resolved professionally rather than carry tales out of school so to speak ... which after all does nothing to address the problem but is a great way to gain sympathy for your personal campaign against a colleague

I wonder whether the discussion actually went something more like this:

OP to TA: 'My child's going to be in X's class next year. Haven't you worked with her? What's she like?' [Possibly repeated]

TA to OP: 'Well, she's fine in general [possibly after further probing from OP] but she can get a bit shouty sometimes'...

If the OP works in education in any capacity, she should know that asking the question is in itself asking the TA to behave unprofessionally - and that the TA in reply should have been clear that she couldn't say anything.

It can be difficult if professional / personal lines are blurred (e.g. TA in question knows OP in a professional capacity, and then also in a personal capacity) but such conversations shouldn't happen. My TA this year also has children in the school, so she has to work doubly hard at the professional / personal thing, and I always admire the way in which she maintains a totally professional and discreet TA persona which is entirely separate from her 'mum' persona.

I have been suitably chastised Mr Z - I did misunderstand. I do wonder however, and I'm fully prepared to be told that I've got the wrong end of the stick again, but if as a parent if you're concerned about your dd adapting to a teacher's style - for example shouting frequently, and your dd comes from an environment where shouting doesn't happen very often (there are other ways to make a point to a child other than scaring them and making them feel uncomfortable imho) are you saying you can't ask a TA who you trust "I've heard he's a bit shouty - can you give me the heads up so I can enlighten dd as to what's coming". Heads are and so they should be very protective of their staff and could with heart on hand when asked the same question respond by saying "we've had no official complaints about .........." I can't thank the support staff enough who have given me the nod and wink about certain things teachers like and dislike - It?s made dds life a lot easier and mine and the teacher's as she's known to keep away from areas which push their buttons. Holds head in shame in case a terrible mother!

Sorry - hand on heart unless they're very adaptable!

You can ask but the TA shouldn't discuss school issues with you. The professional way would be for the TA to approach the teacher (or SMT ) and say a parents has raised a concern (without naming names).
All parental concerns are treated seriously by heads even if this doesn't appear to be the case. The head would probably make a point in popping into the class or just walking past to check out what is happening and would normally speak to the member of staff (again not naming names).

BTW I'm a Mrs not a Mr

Oops! So sorry - You can see why dd and I need all the heads up in life we can get! I think it boils down to the fact, and you have demonstrated this in your mail, things can all get a bit official and I'm not all that comfortable about getting all official when dd has to arrive at that school every day! All it would require is for ".........certain parent worried about teaching style and how dd is adapting to this...." if your dd is the one crying or looking to TA for support while teacher is having a lung exercise moment with the best will in the world it could be obvious who has made "enquiries". I do fully accept that protocol does need to be followed though and will keep this in mind when approaching support staff in the future.

I've been there as a parent but never considered asking my friend who taught in the same school about the teacher. I did talk to the teacher and when that didn't resolve the issue I made it official and the teacher now no longer works in education.

At the time I wasn't a teacher so my actions weren't influenced by my job.

Yes mrz in the cold light of logic that's exactly how to approach the matter. What is it about our "own" that results so often in the most calm, placid and lucid of us from seeing this bigger picture and seeking help from wherever we can find it (I'm talking about myself here). The intention is often pure but the outcome often shows us the "correct procedure" is the way to go. In my heart and my head I know dds teachers want the best for her but I take one look at them and project how I think they will respond to my concerns so decide to ask for help from those I feel are more approachable or "kind". How do I know the TA is kind? I guess it's because in my mind they are there for the child, to nurture and protect them and the teacher is there to fulfil a government directive - if they don't get the academic results expected they have in the eyes of the school "failed". That's a very black and white outlook I know but one I need to personally address before I put someone in the support field into a difficult position or worse in trouble. Thank you.

The TA could have let OP know about this teacher quite innocently, as in:

'How's work going?'
'I'm not really enjoying it this year.'
'Why not, I thought you loved the job?'
'I did, but my current teacher shouts at the children all the time.'

Fast forward to this September and OP or her DS mentions the new teacher's name to the friend. And the friend just says she worked in this teacher's class last year.

OP you should approach the teacher in a calm way that others have suggested. Although, don't expect too much change - some teachers are just shouty and probably don't realise how much they do it.

I guess it's because in my mind they are there for the child, to nurture and protect them and the teacher is there to fulfil a government directive

Do you realise how incredibly insulting this is to teachers? Teachers (aswell as TAs) who make sure a child actually has some breakfast, because they invariably won't have had any at home, provide a PE kit because there is no chance a particular child's parents would ever be organised enough/care enough/have enough money to get one themselves? Who have children who say to them, on a daily basis, 'Mrs *, if I live with you, would you be my Mum? Could I have cuddles if I lived with you? I wish you were my Mum' when you know just how heartbreaking and lacking in affection/love/stability their homelife is?

No - I don't deal with any of that. I am just there to deliver a government directive - let the TAs get 'involved'.

FFS

Totally agree with you Feenie that this is what so many teachers do and it's me as a parent who is at fault projecting the government directive line on all teachers - I didn't make myself at all clear there did I and I apologise if that's how it came across. I wanted to thank mrs Z for making me realise that the teacher is there to help me as a parent as much as for the child and having a little "chat" with a TA wasn't the way forward. I think I'll bow out gracefully now before I upset anyone else! Smiles and slinks backwards out of room.

Thanks, whatdoesthisbuttondo. But as a parent, I would be so upset leaving ds with his teachers if I truly believed that about them.

And there are a few iffy TAs just as there are a few iffy teachers, just like any other profession!

So, just to back-track a bit, is anyone suggesting that this little boy getting into trouble a fair bit is because the teacher is perceived by local gossip to be shouty, not because his behaviour is out-of-line? Could it not be that his previous teacher wasn't that hot on behaviour management? Or just had different tolerance levels? That's life.

Either way, your DS is unhappy. He's your DS, so it matters most to you to sort it out in the most effective way possible. It may be his new teacher is shouty, but he, and you, are going to have to learn to deal with it as she's unlikely to be sacked for it. Your best bet is to do as someone suggested earlier and ask to have a quick word and if there's anything you should know in order to help deal with it.

whatdoesthisbuttondo but faced with my hysterical PFB there was no cold light of logic involved ...

I don't know what's wrong with me........I've done it again! I've just asked the helper at Brownies whether her Brown Owl is a good one - she said no, not really so I'm putting dds name down at the other one in the area.

It's always best to make your own mind up

maybe his last teacher was a bit of a softie and this one has higher expectations of behaviour. in our school the discipline seems to tighten up as kids move up the school. also teachers are often firmer at the start of a year with a new class in order to lay down new behavioural expectations - they sometimes relax as the year continues. i'm not saying that shouting is an effective way to discipline though as its not. i also think it's ok for a TA to aknowledge that a teacher is more shouty. any tom dick or harry will know this anyway meerly through walking past the classroom. the best thing you can do is talk to the teacher and say how your son finds things. ask her what her take is on things.