As we are in admissions season again...some top tips for first timers

[BetsyBoop]

On this thread a while ago, I posted some top tips on the admissions system, which people found useful, so here they are again...

1. Visit every school local to you & make your own mind up - don't go on reputation/gossip/Ofsted reports/league tables
2. Find out how likely it is you stand a chance of a place by looking at the last few years admissions (eg what category & distance)
3. Put the schools in your genuine order or preference (schools are not allowed to operate a "first preference first" system, despite what people tell you)
4. Use all your preferences - but be realistic about your chances of getting a place - don't waste a preference on a hell-will-freeze-over-first option.
5. Always include one "safe" option (even if it is as last preference) which you are okay with & are pretty much guaranteed to get into (ie "catchment" school) . (Or you run the risk of getting a random "worse" school miles away if you don't get any of your preferences)
6. You will not be able to bully the LA/school/appeals panel into giving you the school you want by only putting that school on the application form & refusing places at other schools.
7. Read the admission code - you need to know the "rules" as if the rules are broken it gives you a valid reason to appeal.
8. Submit any exceptional social/medical circumstances evidence with your initial application, whether or not you are fairly confident you will get a place anyway - much easier than trying to win an appeal based on this later (which will typically fail if it is an infant class size* appeal)

• "infant class size" =YR/Y1/Y2 classes can have a maximum of 30 pupils per teacher

admissions - thank you, again, for your advice. I'll wait to the end of the week for them to get back to me, as that was the timescale they gave me today - and will write again after that as you suggest. Part of the problem is working out in my own mind exactly which school is my preferred one, but only I can decide that.

philbee - No, you don't have to use all six spaces. It isn't compulsory. The reason it is recommended is that there is always a chance, however small, that you won't get into your preferred schools. It is therefore a good idea to put one or more unpopular schools that you would consider acceptable (or at least more acceptable than the others) so that you have a good chance of getting into one of them if you miss out on your preferred schools.

However, at the end of the day it is your choice. You won't be penalised if you don't fill in all six places.

Thanks prh47. There just aren't any others that fit those criteria really. She wouldn't get into any others within several miles of us, so it leaves the 3 or 4 which are a long way away and mop up all the people who don't get any of their preferences. I think if she got one of those we'd just withdraw and apply again next year. She'll only be 4 anyway and I'm at home with her at the moment so I can do a bit with her here.

So... We finally moved house and we finally got to see the school (that we moved for!!!). It was nice. In that the children that brought us round were really chatty, polite, high achievers (? All passed the grammar school test and hope to go to grammar schools!) and are generally the type of kids I hope my kids will be like. This is also my closest school and most if not all the children around here go there.

I am however slightly undecided for a couple of reasons. One is the few options of extended schoolclubs (places are limited) and after school clubs. As we both work full time it will be difficult I think to juggle. We don't have family near by.

Other thing is a few of his good friends from nursery will be going to this other school which has so much choice of afterschool clubs and extended school clubs! If our lea is using distance as the top criteria (for first born not in care) then we have no hope in getting in to this other school. We do have friends going to the nearer school too. Just not his 'best mates'. But he seems v adaptable.

On the other hand, the nearer school told us today that last year there were40 siblings!! In a cohort of 67!!

Help? Anyone? Both schools have ofsted 2.

philbee - Whilst you can withdraw and apply again next year the chances are your daughter will then go straight into Y1. Very few LAs (if any) will allow your daughter to go into Reception in the September following her fifth birthday unless there is evidence that she seriously behind in development terms. You will have a very limited choice of schools as most of them will be full.

If you are unhappy with the offered school your only real options are to appeal and/or try to get a place through the waiting lists.

Another update - we have a meeting with our councillor on Friday. I suspect that we will not be allocated a catchment school in time for the January deadline. We do have 3 choices that we are happy with however - one very local, out of catchment, but likely undersubscribed, one out in the villages but we are inside their parish catchment, and one that's middling distance but very likely to be oversubscribed and we are definitely not in catchment (even if we had one). Hopefully the councillor will be bringing enough information to help us make an informed decision re ranking these choices. I think that if we don't get any of those 3 we will appeal on the grounds of the policy not being applied fairly to families resident at addresses which have not been allocated a catchment school.

Can I update this with another question?

Our top two choices we are both out of catchment for, and both could be oversubscribed. The one that is in special measures and relocating and that I thought would be undersubscribed is retaining its catchment on the other side of town, which seems to have had something of a population explosion that year. However, to get to their relocated catchment school they will have to drive/walk past another school, so it may not end up being oversubscribed.

Our third choice is a VA C of E school in a neighbouring village. Their board of governors decide whether or not applicants are in the designated area for the school. Their published admissions policy lists our road by name as being in their designated area. The council, however, are insistent that we are not in this school's designated area as we don't pay council tax to that parish council. Is this likely to make any difference, given that (a) the church is most unlikely to redraw the boundary in the next fortnight and (b) the fact that the school makes the decisions about whether a child is in/out of catchment (rather than the council). Can the council over-ride the church/school about whether or not a road is in catchment?

Our road is still not included on the catchment database. The council view seems to be that catchments will not be changed, in which case I cannot see any reason for continuing to omit a 4 year old road from the catchment database.

Thanks for reading, any help appreciated.

It is far too late for the school to remove a road from its designated area now. As this is a VA school they set their own admission criteria. The LA cannot override them. If the school's published admission arrangements say that your road is in catchment then that is final. The only possible exception I can see is if the some of the road is inside the parish boundary and some is outside, in which case it is possible that only that part of the road inside the parish is in the designated area. If that is the case the school's admission arrangements should say something to the effect that children living within the parish are inside the designated area.

The LA can't undertake a wholesale redrawing of boundaries at this stage but to have a road that has existed for 4 years which isn't in catchment for any school is a serious issue. I suggest you tell them that unless they place your road in catchment for a school by Friday you will refer the matter to the Schools Adjudicator as you are clearly being disadvantaged.

I can only agree with what PRH has said. The LA have a legal and moral duty to sort this out. The fact that the street has not been in any catchment zone for 4 years is a significant case of maladministration and shows that they are not checking the situation on a yearly basis but just waiting for someone like you to come along and point out their errors. Not acceptable.
When you couple this with them wanting to then to redefine the VA schools catchment zone when it has absolutely nothing to do with them, it comes to a case of the LA thinking they can do anything they want and they appear to think that parents have no rights. Well they do and I think that a referral to the School Adjudicator should be made now, so that it can be resolved before the admission places are actually allocated. You do not want to be trying to sort this out when you have not got any of the schools you would prefer in April.

Thank you, prh and admission.

prh, yes, the school's policy says clearly that children within the parish are inside the designated area.

The council have now said twice that we are in catchment for an infant school that is the third furthest away from home. That school is not acceptable to us for a number of reasons, but any of the three schools that we're listing on the form would be fine. However as the council have still not added our road to their system, this still feels to me as if we are effectively invisible to their admissions systems.

It is reassuring that the council cannot change whether or not we are in catchment for the village school, as that is the only school of the three for which we are in catchment.

I'm waiting for a reply from them, but think that I will take up your suggestion of writing to the schools adjudicator. Presumably that will also help should I need to appeal.

I am very grateful for the help I've received on here - Happy New Year!

When you go to the school's adjudicator you will have to show that your road is not in any catchment. From your last post it would seem that the LA are in effect saying that they have put your street in the catchment of the infant school but that the "paperwork" has not caught up with the decision.
I can understand why you feel that a school that is the third furthest away cannot be your catchment school, but catchments don't always seem very logical. What you need to do is establish the catchments for all the local schools and see where they go to. Obviously if the infant school catchment zone comes right down to your street then it would be logical from an LA point of view to include your street in that catchment, even if it is not the nearest school. If however the infant catchment zone does not come down to the entrance to your street then you have a logical argument to put to the school's adjudicator that the LA have not done their job for the last 4 years and then have panicked into making an illogical decision, when you have raised the issue. It may also be worth pointing out that presumably as the street is not in the catchment zone on the computerised system, how can the LA show that they will allocate you the correct school based on your application, if it is going to say out of catchment for all your preferences.
I have no doubt that the LA will argue to the school's adjudicator that the system is right and that a catchment zone is in place, based on their school number predictions. You need to show it is illogical.

I have a stupid question - please bear with me I'm new to all this!

DS is due to start school next year (September 2013) but as we're going to be moving this year - as I see it, it means we need to choose DS's school options now, doesn't it? As we're moving anyway, we should make sure we move near to a good school for DS.

How do you go about looking around schools, do you just ring them up and invite yourself along?!

Do they have open days? Are they usually at a particular time of year (I'm guessing we may have missed the boat for this year?)

Just ring up, and ask to see round on a normal day. In my personal experience, schools are always willing to show you round but you might need to be a little bit flexible about days and times.

Larger primaries may have open days / evenings but it is ALWAYS better to see a school during a normal working day as you get so much more information.

I'll make a list and start ringing! Thanks :)

How much would you go by what schools look like on paper?

As we're moving anyway this year, there are so many schools we could potentially live by!

I want to at least narrow it down before starting house hunting in earnest - I don't want to be in the position where we're waiting to put an offer in on a house until we've looked round the local school.

But the list of potential schools is pretty big!

I could easily rule some out right now as I feel their ethos isn't what we want from DS by looking at their website, prospectus and OFSTED. But is that a bad idea?

I would say that is entirely reasonable. You have to make the task possible for yourself, and so you do have to, in the end, say 'well, I might be ruling out what could have been the best school for my child BUT all the evidence I had available at the time meant that I didn't consider it, and i had to work on the best evidence avaiulable to me at that point'.

I think when we moved we ended up with a longlist of 10-12 and a shortlist of 6 after a round of telephone calls.

I think that a very good way of sorting schools is to phone them up and say you are moving into the area and that you have a child that will be starting school shortly, can I come and visit the school. If the answer is no or we only do it at certain times of the year, then I would cross them off my list straight away. If they do not understand that they as a school are an important bit of the local community and should welcome all new "customers" then they are not the right school for me or my child.
You seem to have an idea of where schools are, but the best way is go on the Ofsted.gov.uk site, look up inspection reports for primary schools against a post code and they will list all schools within a set radius. It is very easy, near to LA boundaries, to miss schools that are in a different LA but nearer than other schools you may be interested in.
When you go to see the school, who do you actually see? If it is the head or deputy head then that is good, if it is the school secretary then that is again a warning sign that the school is not that bothered about you. Big tick if you are shown around the school by a pupil, because that shows that the school really believes in its kids and what they stand for, though I would not expect that if you are visiting during a normal day. Other thing is what is the general atmosphere like, what is there on the walls, does it feel vibrant, are you allowed to go in classrooms or is it just up and down a corridor?
I think that when you go to visit the right school, you will know it in your heart. If you really like 2 or 3 schools then that is a great starting point. However when you have got that far, what you then need to do is look very, very closely at the school admission arrangements, what are the admission criteria? Especially in faith schools there is likely to be some kind of admission criteria for being a member of a particular church or living in certain parishes. Check carefully where catchment zones, if they have them, go because they are not straightforward and are usually based on some long forgotten boundary. What you think will be in catchment may well not be. Also do not under any circumstances rely on what an estate agent says about catchments (sorry), the people to ask are the LA admission office for community schools and the school if it is a faith or foundation school. You should also look at the LA admission booklet, which will be on the LA site, and see how full or oversubscribed the school was last year. Normally it will give you an idea of how far away the last pupil was admitted and some can have a tiny radius, 250 metres is not unknown.
Then you can look for the ideal house!

Admission, you are quite right about phoning - it proved a very effective way of halving my longlist! I had specific questions that I needed the answer to as well as the 'can I come and visit?' and it turned out to be extremely illuminating which schools could answer the questions, put me through to the head or rang back with the answers, as well as who was open and welcoming to the idea of the visit

May I ask a question?

I am currently applying for my son's school place for September 2012. We have to choose up to 4. We have visited the nearest infant and primary schools and have a shortlist. Our catchment school is not our closest school. All the schools in our part of the borough are oversubscribed. Our shortlist is:

1. Nearest primary (1.3 miles)
2. Nearest infant (1.2 miles)
3. catchment (1.5 miles)
4. Next closest infant (1.3 miles)

I'm worried that because we live so far from our catchment school we may end up not getting any of our choices if there are to many children living closer to the school.

Would I be better off putting our fourth choice as a school out of our immediate area which has taken more children from outside catchment previously? This school would be at least 2 or 3 miles away.

The council hasn't published details of how far away children have lived to be accepted at a school.

The council operates what seems to be the standard categories of acceptance:
a. Children in care
b. Special Needs
c. Catchment with sibling/s at school
d. Catchment
e. Out of catchment with sibling/s
f. Out of catchment by proximity
g. Out of borough

Our choices are all under either F or D category.

Any ideas please?

TIA.

It is difficult to advise without knowing more details.

I would generally advise making your final choice a school where you will almost certainly get a place. This generally means going for an unpopular school which you find acceptable (or at least, less unacceptable than the other unpopular schools).

You really need to know the distance of the last child admitted for each of these schools and which category they were in. The LA is supposed to publish this information. If they haven't done so you should ring the admissions team and ask. There are no guarantees as things can change dramatically from year to year but it will give you some idea.

Thanks prh47bridge, I will try the Wokingham BC admissions team again. I have done so before but they said that they can't tell me if my son is likely to get the catchment school until all the applications have been processed because they don't know how many children the school will have in each catchment. Catch 22 I guess.

Last year our catchment school could not take 2 catchment children. But last year was an atypical year as additional classes had to be created at three schools due to extremely high application numbers.

Admission - thank you. The council has now given me a photocopied map with catchments drawn on. We are well inside the infant catchment, so I am still perplexed as to why they couldn't have simply added our road to the database at some point in the six months since I first asked the question. I think the main point of writing to the adjudicator will be to highlight (a) this lack of maintenance of the catchment data and (b) the misinformation by not disclosing a school that I actually am in catchment for, and then compounding that by continuing to deny that I'm in catchment for that school.

I do appreciate that catchment areas are not necessarily logical, and that much as the council bangs on about reducing rush-hour congestion, they're not necessarily eco-minded either.

"It may also be worth pointing out that presumably as the street is not in the catchment zone on the computerised system, how can the LA show that they will allocate you the correct school based on your application, if it is going to say out of catchment for all your preferences." Absolutely. My belief is that the catchment database is output from a larger system, and that therefore they have not updated this larger system.

Waspie,
Information for admission to Wokingham schools is in the parents guide and has information on the number of applicants for last year and the number that were admitted
www.wokingham.gov.uk/schools/schooladmissions/primaryadmissions/?assetdet3543671=191070
Unfortunately what is not in this information is the actual distance the last pupil was admitted under. The LA has a legal obligation to divulge this information if you ask, so I would email them and ask under what criteria the lat pupil was admitted and the distance from the school of this pupil.
They are also actually unlikely to tell you in the future whether you have a reasonable chance of getting a place after the applications have been processed because they would probably be breaking the admissions code to tell you.

Hi admission , that document (and others on the website) are those I've been using. As you say it doesn't give the distance of the last pupil admitted. I'll speak with the admissions team and see if they can give me this information - I think it may be helpful. Thanks.

Update - I've spoken to one of the Admissions Assistants and she has given me the information. I've read it through and the selections I've provisionally chosen do seem to give a good chance of my son getting into one of our preferred schools although obviously it depends how many applications there are this year. Now to submit and wait and see