As we are in admissions season again...some top tips for first timers

[BetsyBoop]

On this thread a while ago, I posted some top tips on the admissions system, which people found useful, so here they are again...

1. Visit every school local to you & make your own mind up - don't go on reputation/gossip/Ofsted reports/league tables
2. Find out how likely it is you stand a chance of a place by looking at the last few years admissions (eg what category & distance)
3. Put the schools in your genuine order or preference (schools are not allowed to operate a "first preference first" system, despite what people tell you)
4. Use all your preferences - but be realistic about your chances of getting a place - don't waste a preference on a hell-will-freeze-over-first option.
5. Always include one "safe" option (even if it is as last preference) which you are okay with & are pretty much guaranteed to get into (ie "catchment" school) . (Or you run the risk of getting a random "worse" school miles away if you don't get any of your preferences)
6. You will not be able to bully the LA/school/appeals panel into giving you the school you want by only putting that school on the application form & refusing places at other schools.
7. Read the admission code - you need to know the "rules" as if the rules are broken it gives you a valid reason to appeal.
8. Submit any exceptional social/medical circumstances evidence with your initial application, whether or not you are fairly confident you will get a place anyway - much easier than trying to win an appeal based on this later (which will typically fail if it is an infant class size* appeal)

• "infant class size" =YR/Y1/Y2 classes can have a maximum of 30 pupils per teacher

DirtyHabit, most authorities have a line like "In the event of multiple births, if only one place is offered the parents have to choose which child will accept the place"

I know of twins who are in different high schools, one passed the 11+ and the other didn't.

we are in Kent and have been trawling the kent county website in search of the data that west sussex seems to be able to produce with clarity...(saw previous link). where's ours?!?! panics help....

I can't see a primary school admissions booklet on their website. I do see a link to their "schools database" but this doesn't seem to be working at the moment so I can't tell if it includes the required information.

I am in Camden too, like tablefor3, so know the pain. We are nearer to islington than to most Camden schools. we have 6 choices. Do we get 6 Camden choices and islington choices on top of this, or 6 on total? Althoughaybe I should read the bumpf again, am sure it must tell me...

You apply to your home council for any schools regardless of whether or not they are in the council's area. So in your situation you put any Islington schools you want on the form you submit to Camden. Camden will pass on your application to Islington. Islington will tell Camden whether you have got in to any of the schools and Camden will make the offer.

So the short answer to your question is you have 6 preferences in total.

I wish I'd read this last year! DS is in reception now but here's my hapeth (elementary stuff compared to the experts here)

The benefit of my experience is for popular schools or those with small intakes to be realistic with distances if that is the sole criterion you will be applying on (e.g. no siblings at the school, no SEN or religious factors). If last year the farthest placed newbie was 0.2 of a mile away then if you are 0.5 of a mile away it is probably not worth the risk!

Hi drcrab I'm in Kent too, and I couldn't find any data either! Please do repost if you find anything. And KCC does have an admissions booklet, but they seem to have chosen this convenient moment to update it, so it's not currently available .

Clearly the best tip is: Don't live in London.

And just to warn that our LEA got its info re Rising 5's from the Health Authority. Our part of the county is served by the HA from the neighbouring county so the children from about 15,000 homes were not included. So, don't expect the LEA to send you the information, you need to go out and get it.

Last Year's Admissions data for anyone living in Hampshire

This will give you a full breakdown of how many children applied, how many children were admitted, and in what categories, including last distance for oversubscribed schools.

drcrab and NomdePC - we are in Kent and this will be my third child that I'm applying for. The booklets usually come out in November and have all of the data regarding distance/applications etc. One usually has to collect it from a school - when I phoned to get one sent for my first child (as we were applying between exchange and completion) they were very sniffy about it.

Applications open on 7th November (I think it is) and close in January, so there is plenty of time to get the data you need to make your applications.

Hi all, wow this thread is a mine of useful info! DS is 4 in December and I am delving into the primary application process for the first time.
I am planning to visit my 4 nearest schools this week, I feel strongly that I want him to go to a local school as I went to one far away from where I lived which I hugely resented as I never saw my school friends during the holidays and the children locally to me had stronger friendship ties with the ones who went to the same school as them.
I have given DS's details the admissions team (as advised on the website if your child is in private daycare, which he is) and they have the admissions packs are sent on the 14th November and online application process opens on the 15th.
One of the schools (our closest is CofE, DH and I both CofE however we haven't attended church regularly since DS was 1 (we attended a church near where we used to live but once DS arrived it became more and more difficult for us to get there as it is nearly an hour away from where we live now). We have been looking for a church to attend locally but have really struggled to find one that has a similar ethos to our old church (moderately evangelical, all the ones around here seem very high church!). However I think we need to get our act together as I would like DS(and eventually DD) to attend Sunday School as we both want the children to be brought up in the Anglican faith.
But I guess this is probably not good enough as it is not recent history. DH and I were very involved in Church groups when we lived near our old Church and we tried to keep it up when we moved to where we live now but it was impossible :( Shame because we really enjoyed and miss it!
Will have to look at the criteria anyway and see what it says. As it happens I think there maybe another non faith school that sounds better than the CofE school which is only slightly further away.
Will just have to see when I have a look around!!

Why is my local catholic school not showing up? It's not under county primiaries or voluntary aided school?

bytheMoonlight - Without knowing where you are and which school you are looking for it is a little difficult to say anything helpful. Sorry.

Haven't read the whole crazy thread but just wanted to say my advice to first-timers would be simply don't just go for your "catchment" or closest school. Have a look at a few just a bit further up the road and if you find one that you like better/ will suit DC better/ is better, then go for that one - it will be worth the extra journey time !

• But that's probably really elementary (no pun intended, ha,ha) for most of you!

For anyone in Hertfordshire there's this website called School Guru which gives quite a bit of advice about the admissions system in Herts and your chances of getting into any given school. It also has info about appeals.

It used to be free and based on several years' data, but last year the Council changed the way it calculated distance (it's now as-the-crow-flies) so there's only last year's data to go on. And you have to pay £10 to access the info on the School Guru website (not connected to the Council btw!).

Has anyone used it? Is it worth paying the tenner this year considering that there's only one year's previous data about admissions on which to base future predictions on?

Oh, and another first-timer here! Fortunately several good state primaries round here so hopefully not too much playing-the-game necessary. Setting up visits to the nearest four schools now!

I'm v v v confused. DD1 born in Sept 2008. So she's just turned three. My friends from baby group who had August 2008 babies have just sent their little ones off to 'school'. But I'm now wondering whether this just means the 15 hour entitlement that they get after their third birthday, and not 'real' school admissions i.e. full time. But, if so, when the heck do I apply for a school? DD1 is in private nursery care and will get 15 hours free from January in her current setting. So, what happens next year? Is there any point in applying for a 'school' (pre-school?) place if it's only going to be 15 hours anyhow, so we'd be paying for the extra childcare ... ?

I really don't understand how any of this works. Aaaargh ...

Thanks for starting this thread, its helped clarify many things.
Im still unclear on a couple of things. In my borough we have 6 choices on the form, we only have 3 primaries that would be easy to get to, do I have to put down 6?
Also, when applying online, is there a limit to the number of applications you can send? Ive amended my form a couple of times now based on the advice on here.

frozennorthpole your babygroup is just like mine, except a year later (DS1 was born in Sept 07, but others in babygroup arrived early in August 07). Your DD will not start proper school (I'm assuming we're talking about the English state primary system here) until September 2013, when she will be among the very oldest in her year. Your playgroup friends' August 08 children will start school in September 2012, when they will be the youngest in their year. IE - their children will be a whole school year above your DD. 'Starting school' means when they start in the Reception year (also sometimes called Foundation, I think) in a primary school.

If your friends' children are going off to 'school' now, then this means pre-school. Things are confused by the fact that pre-schools are sometimes attached to primary schools (and it's particularly confusing with private schools, because some of their pre-schools seem to be treated as if they're just the first year of proper school). But they are separate - 'pre-schools' are not the same as proper 'school' - they are effectively the same as 'playgroups' or 'nurseries' (except that nurseries also take babies).

So.... What your friends mean is either that they're just starting to receive the free entitlement, or that they are moving their children from nursery to pre-school. The main reasons for moving a child from nursery to pre-school at age three are 1) that pre-schools are often cheaper than nurseries - you still only get the 15 hours free, but any additional hours that you choose to do might well be cheaper, and 2) that pre-schools are in theory more geared up to the needs of older children. However, many people (me included) choose to keep their children in nursery, because they often have a 'pre-school room' that's just as good as a dedicated pre-school, and/or because they work out of home, and need the longer hours of childcare that a nursery can provide.

So (sorry for waffling) - to answer your specific questions: you will apply for a proper school place (ie a state primary school Reception place) this time next year - ie between about November 2012 and January 2013. Your decision about whether to move your DD to a pre-school instead of or in addition to your current nursery before then is likely to depend on 1) your childcare needs, 2) your finances, and 3) above all, whether you're happy that the nursery is providing what your daughter needs. Might be worth looking around a couple of pre-schools to compare?

Incidentally, the whole business is also complicated by the fact that 'compulsory school age' is not reached until the term after your child's 5th birthday - so in theory, your playgroup friends could choose to defer their children's school start until September 2013 (though at this point they would go straight into Year 1 rather than Reception, so they would still be the year above your DD). Not many parents choose to do this, though.

Sorry, long post. I'm quite new to all this, so someone please correct me if I've got anything wrong!!

Frozen - hello, are we going to see you on our Durham meetup thread?
DS is in a privare nursery and has been receiving his Nursery Education grant since January. Nursery just calculate the cost of the 15 hours and deduct it off the weekly costs during term time. So you will find you should get a reduction in your childcare costs.

Can I just add something from my own experience.
When you are asked to list the reasons you wish your child to attend that school, if it IS your catchment school do state the obvious in detail eg 'my child has a statement for deafness' and why you wish him to attend 'and this school has a specialist department for deaf children', or 'This is our catchment school'. Don't assume that LEA staff know about your child, or the school's special facilities let alone get it right and will know if you are or are not in catchment particularly if there are no other kids in your road (ours was all old people lived there for 25 years+)

I had a horrid experience on applying for infants where I had only applied to the one catchment school without stating it was our catchment school, only to not be offered a place as we have a different first half of postcode from all the rest of catchment, and I was told: 'sorry your daughter is not in catchment, but if you wish her to remain on the waiting list she is the top of the list as you are the nearest out of catchment applicant and there will probably be a place for her' This was actually a mistake as our road was listed on the school's brochure, but I later found we (and the 3 other houses our end of the road) were officially not in any catchment at all although our road was listed as being in the catchment of the infants in their brochure - when I applied to the LEA for her junior place I rang to double check and discovered this! I had to write that the head of admissions had authorised we were in the junior catchment on the application, and they since allocated schools to our 'grey area'.

This unusual circumstance of postcode however did work in our favour on applying for secondary. We are 0.9 miles from catchment secondary (A), and 1.9 miles from the next nearest (B)- but it was this school (B) we wanted. However, the first half of our postcode is the same as school B's catchment postcodes, yet different from school A's catchment. We assume that the first sort of the admissions must have been done manually by postcode by school, then by distance, because if it had been done by computer we'd not have been offered a place at school B as we are most definitely NOT in catchment according to their computer - the LEA announced that no places for school B were allocated outside of catchment - B has a large very rural catchment, A is a town school. Indeed there was furore in the local press as children attending (faith) feeder schools in catchment but further away than us did not get allocated a place initially (it is also a faith school, and faith was also a higher criterea, as was feeder school, than catchment). The LEA added a class to the year in the end, so those other children did get a place, even so it's doubtful/borderline we'd have got in.

i have a couple of questions if someone would be so kind - where can i find distances between home and school (that they would use for admissions), and also someone helpfully posted a data table for last years hampshire admissions with how many pupils were taken from out of catchment and furthest distance, does such a thing exist for every authority?

wer'e in wiltshire and the whole sodding nightmare process is really depressing me. the local 'good' school we are not in catchment for (very selective catchment area where houses are £££ and we cant afford to move), the nearest school is catholic (we're not though i do know of some that go there that arent even baptised) which leaves us with a choice of one that has been on special measures and has attainment and attendance issues. i am going to visit this one for myself next week as i know not always to believe reputation. but i feel so - i have badly let my son down by not being able to place him in a good school. it seems all other neighbouring schools are heavily over subscribed and its a helpless situation. colleagues who are dithering between choosing 'outstanding' state schools and private schools arent helping either!

anyway, any advice would be greatfully received before i go out of my mind with worry ....

shelley - re distance - there is a distance calculator on my local Council's webpages about school admissions (I'm in Herts). We don't have catchments - just that the closer you are to a school the better your chances of getting in (presuming you are applying under the distance rule rather than one of the other rules like children with SEN or sibling rule.

Looking at Wiltshire Council it looks like you do have catchments and I don't know if distance is used as a tie-breaker. If you have a look through the Council's website it would tell you whether / when distance comes into it. I wonder if last year's data table is on the Council website too?

Ariela - Saying you were in catchment probably wouldn't have made any difference. Most LAs don't give the reasons more than a passing glance as they don't play any part in the admisssions process. What happened sounds like a straightforward foul up in admissions. If you were genuinely not in any catchment for an LA that operates formal catchment areas you had a strong appeal case on the grounds that the admission arrangements leave you unfairly disadvantaged. The fact that you got a place at secondary school when it appears you shouldn't suggests your LA's admissions department is in a mess.

shelley72 - Even if there is a calculator on the Council's website I wouldn't rely on it to find out the measurement used. Most online calculators go from the centre of your postcode to the centre of the school's postcode. The system used for admissions should be more accurate than that, measuring from a point on your property to a point on the school's property. If you just want an approximation for the straight line distance there are a number of online calculators that will do it such as www.postcode.org.uk. The information you are after should be available from Wiltshire but some LAs make it easier to find this than others.

*The information you are after" - Sorry. Should have been clearer. I mean the information about furthest distance, etc.