Homework is a constant fight.

[DooinMeCleanin]

Is this usual?

It takes over an hour to get dd1 to practise her spellings and times tables each night. She must be constantly supervised or she won't do it. She spends twice as much energy crying, howling and arguing as she does doing her actual work.

This week she has been making a fact sheet on Meerkats all week. It has taken her a full week, to draw one picture and write approximately 6/7 lines.

She was happy to sit and watch Meerkat Manor for hours on end, but we had to fight her to get her on the computer to research properly. We had to fight her to get her to write proper notes. She happily drew the picture in the end, but had to keep being reminded she was doing homework as she kept getting distracted by everything.

She is 8. Surely she should not be breaking down into hysterics when she is asked to copy down a spelling she has gotten wrong?

Dooinmecleaning I sympathise with you - your daughter is wasting your time and you've got better things to do than listen to her stropping.
Somewhere on another thread I read the idea of only giving HALF AN HOUR - just set the timer on the cooker and say "you've got half an hour to do homework." Sit with her until the end of that half hour and then send in whatever she produces in that time with a note to let the teacher know that's how long it took.(or one hour if you want to do longer)
I can remember DDs at 8 taking Three or four hours to copy a tiny bit of handwriting. I'm sure the school never suspected how long it had taken me to get them to do it. Of course it takes double the time when you have twins being stroppy

1. Eight year olds do not really need to do homework, and giving it a miss will not necessarily mean they never develop a work ethic.

1. Surprisingly, kids have a habit of learning spellings and so on regardless of what parents are doing at home - what the school holds up as good standards when marking their work counts for a lot more.

1. Letting them fail a bit sometimes is a good way of getting them to appreciate that ultimately it's down to them and nobody can do the work for them. If parents point this out when they come bleating about not doing very well, whilst reminding them they are bright and capable when they want to be, then it's a good opportunity to do some good.

1. It's always good to chat things like this through with the school and if necessary get a homework interregnum for a bit if it's affecting family life too negatively.

just read your earlier post about dd "winning" the battle against you.
Stop talking about winning and losing battles. It is not a battle of wills, it is about encouraging her.
You seem to be afraid of her letting herself down, or not trying hard enough, and I suspect this is all coming out in these scenes. For some reason, which galls you, her father is able to get her to do the work and you are complaining he is too soft! But his method of encouraging is working. Or else she is thrashing out some ishoos with you, that he isn't.

Stop worrying about her, encourage her in all the things she is good at, don't mention the things she is bad at (perseverance, effort) but praise her when she does make an effort over anything. (This is all in "How to Talk So Children Listen". Why shouldn't she be clever, why shouldn't you delight iin her being able to wing it? There are lots of jobs where an ability to wing it is an advantage. Why do you have to tell her off because she can do it without working? She is now lying - that's new isn't it? More windup. Stop asking her. Make it the teacher's problem. It is the teacher's problem.

Good advice re the timer.

I say to DS2, once an 'agreed time' has been found 'You have 'x' amount of my time when I am available to help you, beyond that you are on your own'. By help I do not mean 'do' because DS needs help with structuring stuff. Whilst it appears that every DC represented here on MN can independently produce an articulate, well-researched PowerPoint on 'The Early Impressionists' by the end of Y1 , DS needs help in producing a frame work onto which he can hang his ideas. I am happy to help him via focused Q&A to do this with him but there is a time limit, and if his attention (or even SELF) significantly wanders off during it, end of help session. Ditto if I get 'the Flumps' which is the knitted brow, heavy sigh, collapsing onto the chair, chin on elbow routine.

btw I can spell issues for some reason I call them ishoos on MN.

I like 'ishooz' myself. I think it conveys our understanding that not having a roof over your head or clean drinking water in a tap are 'issues', primary school homework can be a bind, an irritation in busy lives but we do have some perspective on it!

FWIW my two brightest kids are great homework refuseniks and it never really stopped them doing anything they wanted to in life

Skim read this so may be repeating what others have said. Teacher hat on here. Personally, I hate giving out homework other than regular reading, would much rather children spent quality time with parents. As often as I can I give out games etc for homework - ie pairs game for number bonds to 10, snakes and ladders for addition, lots of Literact games too.

I would speak to the teacher and see what strategies he can suggest and also if there is a consequence for her if it is not done. When I have parents come and see me I explain that incomplete/not done homework is done in golden time, that is often enough of a consequence for reluctant children to do it at home! I have also had parents write in the homework book if child has done homework without complaining, and they get a housepoint etc. Took over a class last year mid year and previous teacher gave out raffle tickets - 4 if handed in next day, 3 if day after etc. Homework did come in very quickly! Oh, and homework completed gets housepoints etc - depending on the quality.

Would like to say thankyou on behalf of your child's teachers that you care enough about their learning. I often have the opposite problem in class - parents don't care and won't do homework/read with child etc. Really hard on child then.

Another thought - sand timer/egg timer etc for however long homework is meant to take? I write on top the maximum amount I want child to spend on it. I can tell if they have not bothered, but I wouldn't want child to spent hours on piece - then it would be my fault for not setting it at appropriate level.

Our fridge has several notes attached to it in DD's handwriting which are:

"I will practice my instruments every day unless I have an after school club"

"Homework makes the next lesson easier"

"Homework needs to be done"

"I'll do my homework as soon as I can so I have the rest of the day to myself."

This was DH's solution to the screaming/tantrum stuff. It also put paid to the "I'll do it tomorrow" and then the next day "I never said that". Now the agreement is pinned to the fridge and she can't say she never said it. DD is a great one for "I'll do it tomorrow" including eating her greens!

I said to DH I thought it was a bit much having a sort of contract with an eight year old but he was right, it stopped all the tantrums. DD's school now has a homework club so she does the stuff there before she comes home and the weekend stuff is done asap. Also, I let her get on with learning spellings etc as yes, it is her problem if she gets 0/20 in the spelling test. Luckily her school really does follow up on homework, the spellings are tested in spelling tests, if they have to read a chapter of a book, the next lesson starts on the chapter after that so if you haven't done your homework it really is obvious and inconvenient.
Homework that the teacher barely looks at, is, I agree, pointless (which is why I moved her to the school she is currently in!!!).

I am worried about what will happen when she gets to Secondary school if she is still in the habit of not doing homework. Surely getting her used to it now, will help in the long run?

I don't think it has any bearing on it at all. Also if you having a battle of wills you are not teaching them to time manage at all. That is why I don't engage-I don't see why it has to be a 'battle' it is their problem not yours. When they get to secondary school, if not before, is the time to leave it to them. The DCs who can't manage university are the ones who have been 'managed' the whole time by parents.

Spot on, exotic. She will probably spend Year 7 and most of Year 8 flapping about not doing much homework, get a few detentions, realise her friends are all do their homework (hopefully) and sometime towards the end of Year 8 she will wake up and start doing it. Later on, she might even get enthusiastic about it. This is completely normal and schools are used to coping with it.

one of mine was exactly like this at 8, stubbornly refusing to put pen to paper and putting far more effort into refusing to work than the work itself would ever have taken had she just got on with it. She soon learned to never own up to having any homework and as she never kept her prep diary up to date I was never any the wiser. At senior school things did not improve (ie very little, if any, work came home), but we discovered from her tutor she would arrive early and work extremely diligently before school (we honestly thought he had the wrong child when we heard this as it seemed so out of character). We've had a few teachers reports that her work seems rushed, but not as much as we'd expect from the near zero amount she does in our sight and she is I think a master of setting teachers expectations of her low so that she can get away with minimal effort. Despite all this she tends to get pretty good results when it matters, she just has an almost religious antipathy to doing school work outside of school as far as I can tell, but does seem to make up for it when she's there.

Okay I need to back off a bit. I'll let her carry on with DH and see how she goes.

I don't know why she works better for him. He is more strict than I am normally.

I just worry that she won't do as well as she could if she applied herself a bit more. I coasted through school. I managed to get fairly good results considering I was rarely there and when I was there I was pissing about, but no-one ever really stopped me or encouraged me. I didn't finish college due to pissing about and I have no career. I don't want dd1 to follow the same path. I want her to understand how important education is and to do her best. I realise she is very young, but I was hoping if she got used to working hard/trying her best when she was younger, she'd find it easier to do when she was older.

I am over thinking aren't I?

Probably overthinking. Either they like working hard or they don't-it has to come from within -not imposed from outside. They can change-either way-at any point.

Exoticfruits and DooingMeCleaning
I kind of agree with both of you
Yes, you are over-thinking but maybe the work habit becomes ingrained in us.
We are not born ready programmed to "tidy up" or "make an effort" in any way, are we? That is learned behaviour so Dooingmecleaning is right there.
But I also agree with Exotic when she says the bit about some people always wanting to do their best and others not bothering, that is down to genes I reckon.

I expect it is Crossword-I am very conscientious with a strong work ethic-as is DH. I don't think that it is so much what you say as what you do. I have DSs who are all talk about what they 'won't' do ,but when it comes to it they do the 'right' thing and they want to fit in. I was fairly confident that telling them 'not to do it but explain to the teacher' wasn't an option for them.

Mind you I quite like Miggsie's notes on the fridge!

exotic Yes, I think kids do what they see us do. Subconsciously of course.
I think it's important that they see us getting up early day in day out and working.(Although I work from home they still see me putting the hours in) They never comment on it, just take it as normal, which says a lot really.
And "no, dear, you can't have a day off ill because Dad and I have to carry on whether we are ill or not."

At almost 11yrs, DS1 will do homework without arguing/fighting/throwing a hissing fit, DS2 (his twin) screams, shouts, sulks, cries, throws his penci/pen/rubber across the room, makes evey excuse under the sun, even says he hasn't been taught it (they are in the same class!!) He generally spends 2-3 hours doing 1/2 hrs worth of homework. I am hoping it will get better this year as they are in yr6 and they have had to sign a "homework agreement with both me and the headmaster as counter signatories. It made them feel very grown up because they were consulted over this agreement, and the whole class helped to draft it. I can only hope, as this year they have already been tols they will have at least 6 pieces of homework a week!

I have followed this thread with interet as my DD yr3 will try her hardest to get out of doing homework if she thinks that she can!
After reading Miggsie post about the notes on the fridge I thought that would work for us too. I was pleased with how my DD took the idea on and she has signed a bit of paper saying when she will do her homework.
Thank you for that great idea :)

So what I need to do is sit and learn spellings after work each day and she will copy me?

Dd2 now has homework, although its only colouring in and repeating rhymes I was hoping if dd1 saw us sitting down and getting on with it she might bring her own work over and join in.

Oh no, I think as maybe one of the posters with an older DSS (age 13 - just in year 9) I can honestly say it's not got much better. Sorry!! The past six months we've tried to back off and just set him up at the table, but it's still a nightmare, huffs and moaning and whinging, and saying the teacher just expects him to do it and he hasn't been taught it (when explaining calmly through gritted teeth that the teacher wouldn't set homework that couldn't be done, I get accused of "well you weren't in the class were you so I know they didn't") He still takes ages over the more difficult stuff (which is where we normally get the above actions) and hopes that by kicking off enough we will show him exactly what is wrong!!
That said he does now know that in from school, snack and drink then set up for homework, do what you can (and he is doing) and we will help when we get in from work! If homework completed (to a reasonable standard) then it's all put away and playing/chilling can commence! If not done properly or appaling then start again (usually causing said problems).
Oh well only a few more years to go and at least we get to share homework duty with his mum :)

We encountered a lot of resistance with dd at this age, and up to 10. Teacher said it was best not to force anything. Suddenly in yr 6 she just started doing it off her own bat (although she would often forget to hand it in!) Now she has just started secondary and is getting to grips with the much lengthier pieces of work, and learning the value of doing something soon after the lesson while you can still remember what it was all about!

DMC - you've said several times here that your daughter likes reading but hates learning to spell. Do you have a local library? my solution to being a total homework refusenik/having my mother on my back about spelling in primary school was to read everything I could get my hands on: so that I ended up just seeing correctly-spelled words every day, and never having to consciously learn things.
I'm trying to remember what I read when I was 8 - I think probably a lot of Noel Streatfield...