Homework is a constant fight.

[DooinMeCleanin]

Is this usual?

It takes over an hour to get dd1 to practise her spellings and times tables each night. She must be constantly supervised or she won't do it. She spends twice as much energy crying, howling and arguing as she does doing her actual work.

This week she has been making a fact sheet on Meerkats all week. It has taken her a full week, to draw one picture and write approximately 6/7 lines.

She was happy to sit and watch Meerkat Manor for hours on end, but we had to fight her to get her on the computer to research properly. We had to fight her to get her to write proper notes. She happily drew the picture in the end, but had to keep being reminded she was doing homework as she kept getting distracted by everything.

She is 8. Surely she should not be breaking down into hysterics when she is asked to copy down a spelling she has gotten wrong?

As a parent (ie not in my teaching persona), the ONLY type of homework I ever got involved in directly was the 'reading with your child' one, and that was because it was a ritual part of the 'bath, books, teeth, bed' roiutine at the end of every day.

For other homework, I discuss with my children (now Years 6 and 4, but this started several years ago - basically as soon as they could read the instructions for the homework) when they are going to fit it in. This is non-trivial as they get home late several nights a week due to my work, they do lots of after school activities (e.g. DD dances for over 6 hours per week) , they both also have musical instrument practice and DD has to practise her dance solos.

Once the time is negotiated, I provide necessary equipment and a space on their table. And that's it. I am available for reasonable questions if they are genuinely stuck. They put the results in their school bag, if it's late or badly done then they take the consequences.

To be honest, I believe that the ONLY value in primary homework (except for daily reading) is the development of an independent work ethic and perhaps a tiny bit of school-home communication. If a parent does all the work and the child does none, then there is no value at all in it, it might as well not be done.

Exactly teacherwith2kids.

Straight after school within the first 30 mins after a snack and a drink. Routine from reception when we did the reading straightaway. No TV or play until it is done. DS 7 is pretty good - just as well since we rush off to various of his activities most evenings as well. If we can't manage to do it all, there's always a little time after breakfast and before we have to set off for school.

Agree totally with exoticfruits and teacherwith2kids.

Have 4 DSs, 10, 8, 7 and 5 - do not have time to sit down and "help" (i.e. DO) their homework for them. Apart from hearing reading for the younger ones.

I ask them if they have homework, and we discuss when it will get done (esp at weekends). We also discuss how they might go about doing it. Then it is up to them. I refuse to fight with them about it. If it isn't done, and they get into trouble with the teacher, that's their look out.

We have a "system" involving pocket money - carrots and sticks - things they can lose or gain extra pocket money for. However, there is also a list of things that is just "expected" - including simple chores, sorting out school bags, and doing homework.

if she got away without doing it all last year, that tells me a few things
1 the teacher couldn't be bothered chasing it up
2 the teacher can't have thought it was important
It is, imo, up to the teacher, not you, to enforce the homework rule. If they want it done, they have to ask for it, tell you she's not doing it, keep her in at break to do it, or something. If they can't be bothered, then it is obv nothing worth worrying about and is perhaps 'optional homework' to keep the pushier of parents happy
This might change this year, new teacher, higher up the school, and your daughter might get a shock when her first homework is not done, but then she will learn to do it.
Save your energy for other stuff - honestly!

Sincere apologies if anyone has mentioned this already, not managed to read whole thread yet. Have you read 'The homework myth' by Alfie Kohn? I read it years ago. It won't actually help you practically but it is a fascinating book, and struck so many chords with me when I was where you are now with my eldest son and his homework. Ruddy nightmare it was. Never again. Good luck!

your post made me laugh as I had to check I hadn't written it myself! Ds1 is exactly the same, he is in year 3.

My dd is 5 and because she is the youngest in her Y1 class, I felt I had to start off with with some sort of plan for after school and homework from day 1.

She doesn't get any set homework every night as such but she does complain when she has to do it - it's boring etc, or I don't know how to do it (she is quite capable of doing it). Is this laziness or just that we're not in a good routine yet?

She has some chill time and a snack with drink but I have made it a rule that there's no tv on a school night. Too harsh?
I just think all that she's learnt during the day will go right out the window once she's vegging out in front of the tv screen.
I'm worried I'm going to have an uphill battle with her until Uni

Sorry for thread highjacking..

Ds is 8 and is exactly like this and I cannot see an end to it.

In year 2 we had a brief period of reduced homework so that he could get into a routine of doing it and it being simple and not a chore, but it didn't last.

We have crying, screaming, shouting and begging all over a maths sheet. It is ridiculous.

Last term I said to him fine, don't do it, but you will face the consequences at school. I told his teacher he had refused to do it and so as I understood it, he'd be made to do it in golden time. The teacher looked at me like i was the meanest woman on earth

teacherwith2kids speaks mucho sense!

Set a timer, find out from the school what their recommendation is, eg 20 mins per night in Yr2 or whatever. See what can be done in the 20 mins and hand it in.

I was thinking it was a bit harsh deepleaf, perhaps I can use it as an incentive to get some work done (beforehand). I only allow catch up/iplayer progs. Will see how it goes from there

Masses of encouragement and praise when it goes even a little bit right. Homework has always been a bit of an issue for DS1. Maths is fine - he's happy to do that right away and dashes it straight out - getting it all right usually. Reading is like pulling teeth though he reads pretty well really. He puts of this dreadful little whiney/scratchy " you are torturing me" voice. Spellings always a bit of an issue too. He loves making powerpoint presentataions and working on my computer though.

Todays spellings were learnt with no issue at all as we did them in the guise of learning how to use Excel.

I got him to write the different words in different cells and sort of taught him how to navigate round a spreadsheet at the same time. Deleting and amending things. That way he seemed perfectly happy. I'll carry on every day this week and hopefully by Friday he'll have them down pat.

I reckon I will have to keep altering my tactics though.

We have agreed homework is one of the very few house rules at home....
To get it done we use a timer.
20 minutes max homework.

Mini box of smarties at the end ;)

Agree with exotic fruits, as always...

OP 'fighting' with dc usually doesn't work, it implies that someone has to win and someone loses. A win-win is a better way to go. Dcs quickly get the idea if they are 'made' to do something, it must be A Bad Thing, which they will not expect to enjoy.

I think they need to chill when they come in, they have been 'at work' all day and to make them start straight away seems OTT. We don't do anything except have a high expectation that they will sort themselves out. They need to learn personal responsibility, that is more useful in life than following orders. They know we would be disappointed if they had not made an effort with their homework, they know that it is important to try your best in general.

Saying that, we do check times tables but just in passing in a silly way, '8x6? 6x8?48/6,48/8..ad nauseum until they know it. Spelling is far more usefully acquired by reading loads, which is mainly achieved by limiting screen time and early bed times combined with unlimited reading time in bed.

If the dcs followed me about saying 'have you done the washing? do it now before you have a cup of tea... no fold it again, you've got it wrong...' I'd be thinking I don't want to do that...but left to my own devices I will get things done.

I think it is worth changing tack, stop the fight and see what happens.

As always the book 'How to talk so children will listen' is helpful if you've not already read it.

Just putting my tuppence worth in - as a teacher.
I would find it hard to believe that a teacher would give anything for homework that is difficult enough to cause such anguish. Homework should consolidate everything that is done in school.
If you think it is genuinely too difficult, I would make an immediate appointment with the teacher to discuss.
HOWEVER, if you think she is trying to get out of it (6 or 7 lines in a week seems very little for an 8 year old!), I would make the teacher aware of this and ask for an agreed approach with incentives and rewards for good efforts. If it falls short of the mark it should be repeated the following night along with any other homework. May seem excessive but they get the idea very quickly and will rarely hand in less than best after that!
Incidentally, I always tell my parents to sign the homework off if you feel your child has worked hard enough for long enough (I think 40 mins is suggested for Y4s in our school). Then the teacher can see exactly what is being done and (hopefully!) follow up.
Good luck with this!!!

teacherwith2kids - agree fully! On behalf of all teachers, everyone please listen to this sensible, supportive Mum!!!

If the dcs followed me about saying 'have you done the washing? do it now before you have a cup of tea... no fold it again, you've got it wrong...' I'd be thinking I don't want to do that...but left to my own devices I will get things done

Me too! I don't think that DCs are any different. I am with teacherwith2kids-discuss timing, give a space,make sure they have the equipment and be available if they want help and the rest is up to them. Do not sit beside them-their idea is that they will moan, be easily distracted, get mum all worked up and end up with mum doing most of it for them. At the end of it mum will be the one who is stressed! Go away and find something to do yourself.

My only ishoo with those who have said 'If the DC doesn't do it, they will soon learn they will face the consequences in school'- when there aren't any consequences! To me this is worse than useless. If a teacher doesn't intend on constructively marking homework (which can also include the phrase 'this is not enough work for 30 minutes') then don't set it. Whilst I fully appreciate there must be NC 'rules' about primary homework (are there?), I'd defy anyone to name a school that got into trouble for forming a 'tables and spellings homework only' policy and sticking to it.

FWIW neither of my DSs like/d primary homework, and we had the tears etc but luckily DS1 now Y8 recognises that it must be done and that leaving it makes it accrue into mountainous proportions, but DS2 (Y6) still struggles with the Get On With It notion! We are 'fortunate' in them having 2 same aged friends who attend an academic prep and high school where the boys have received an hour a night since they were 7. It is oddly surprising how 'effective' it is for me to remind my 2 of this fact when we've wasted half an hour doing nothing but prevaricating- maybe they feel a bit silly that their mates just get on with it without fuss and they sometimes carry/carried on like 5 year olds. Admittedly I was also surprised reading the teacher's comments in my friend's sons books- 4 or 5 lines critiquing the work, admonishing and praising where necessary, and an actual MARK. I do entirely appreciate that a state school teacher might not have the time to do that, but those boys knew exactly where they stood, how they were doing and knew there was no wriggle room!l!

I agree Erebus, but when I said that I would just leave them to explain lack of homework to the teacher I knew that they would have to do it. Homework came back properly marked, often with a lot of helpful comments. (state primary). When I was teaching I had a spreadsheet for them to tick off so it could be chased up.
I don't agree with primary homework at all but since you have to set it you need to do it properly.

She doesn't find it difficult as such. She is good at literacy and spelling. Not so good that she is classed as gifted, but she is ahead of her peers slightly.

The problem is she is lazy and expects to just know it all straight away. If she doesn't the tears start. She could learn the spellings with ease if she put her mind to it. She got them all right last week, despite all the tears and tantrums. Had she got any wrong there would have been more tears and tantrums.

She has always been this way. If she is not brilliant at something immediately she will give up instead of working at it, despite being capable. This is why she left dancing school. She was sailing through within her own age group, so they moved her up to a more difficult set. Once she was no longer the best in the class and was finding it challenging (but not impossible) she left.

She lied about having spellings last night. She told me the teacher did not have time to put them in her book and he was giving them out today. I checked her book and they were there. I would have taken it easy on her yesterday anyway, owing to her friend being at our house. She did them with her Dad after I went to work and he said she happily copied out the ones she got wrong, with no tears. He thinks I should let him carry on helping her, since she responds better to him. I think that is letting her win and making her think she does not have to do what I say and can continue to take the piss. We teach it the same way. Although I do think he makes her copy out what she has gotten wrong only once. I make her do it a few times, but I do focus on what she has gotten right too and tell her how well she has done.

DMC

If she is ahead in her class, do you think it is worth all the angst over homework? What do you think will happen if you back off for a bit, talk to the teacher and see what they say. I still think it's worth a try..

Possibly not, but I am worried if she gets away with not doing it then she will think she can carry on just doing a half arsed job all the way through life.

She is very clever. Too clever, sometimes. But if she worked at being clever a little bit she would could do so much better.

I am worried about what will happen when she gets to Secondary school if she is still in the habit of not doing homework. Surely getting her used to it now, will help in the long run? She is not clever enough to get away with doing squat when the work gets harder.

I am certain if I backed off she would only do what she knows she can already do. She would not practise any spellings, but she would do reading. She wouldn't do her timestables, but she would do addition. She would only do projects she thought she would enjoy.

I will have a word with the teacher. I was/am working yesterday and today, but I am going to ask to see him or the head on Wed/Thurs to see if they have any suggestions.

Dooinyou really need to back off. It's all a bit "I didn't get where I am today by ..." The posters who go on about world of work, secondary school have missed the point. She is 8. She's not at work, or secondary school. She just needs to like learning and tasks, not regard it as necessary evil.
Do school have spelling tests? If so, she probably won't want to get O in every test. If she reads she probably will learn to spell that way (I did)

Pay absolutely no attention to her homework.

Before long she will be begging you to help her with it. Make sure teacher is on your side, and is going to re-inforce this strategy at school. Explain that it is causing a lot of tension and you need teacher to take responsibility for setting homework and enforcing it, not you. Stop worrying what school think of you, worry more about getting your dd interested in reading, learning in way that is not is not affected by other ishoos. I never pushed reading spelling at dd, she is now disappearing off to her room for hours to read JWilson, her spelling has improved as a result and her literacy overall.
Similarily tables don't need to be learnt in formal way. Just throw in a few tables every now and then. Singing in car?