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Delaying starting school until term after 5th birthday - anyone else?

249 replies

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/08/2011 13:45

Just wondered. Have been told by our LA that ds is the only one in the whole county and that he'll be so very behind when he starts.

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Pseudonym99 · 26/08/2011 15:26

Starlight - "Just wondered. Have been told by our LA that ds is the only one in the whole county and that he'll be so very behind when he starts." - Don't pay attention when they tell you things like this. They will lie to you in order to get you to do what they think is best for the child. Of course, because they are professionals, they always know best.

insanityscatching · 26/08/2011 15:31

I think it's the default setting Star. The LEA didn't comment when I kept ds and dd back but the teacher and the HT bent my ear plenty. Had the school already known and been able to speak to you you'd have got it from there also Wink

mrz · 26/08/2011 15:31

Pseudonym99 what do you think they gain from lying?

StarlightMcKenzie · 26/08/2011 15:39

I suspect insanity that they just want to get on with their job. And holding some children back etc. is seen as faffing about.

Also, why the heck would they do their jobs if they didn't believe they could make a difference or improve on what parents could do. I mean what would be the point? So it is kind of built into them I guess (the teachers) that the best place for your child is with them, amongst their peers at the time and place everyone is used to.

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Pseudonym99 · 26/08/2011 15:43

mrz - from lying, they gain their own way. Because they spent however many years at university, and they've been doing the job for so long, they think they know best. They don't stop to think there must be reasons the law says a child doesn't have to start until after they turn five. They just think their way is the only way.

mrz · 26/08/2011 15:50

Sorry but I still don't see what you think they gain? You do realise the people in the office actually dealing with school admissions probably haven't been to university and they probably don't give a damn about whether your child is in school or not?

lingle · 26/08/2011 15:52

my head and nursery staff and SENCO were 100% supportive. We met with a lady from the LEA who bleated but we presented a united front. Headteacher used the Voice of Authority to LEA lady and said "this is what the parents have decided" thus earning my appreciation.

We all met again a year later and exchanged mutual compliments on our brilliant judgment because we were now talking about such a different child that there wasn't much else to talk about at the meeting.

But this was all only possible because we knew that the LEA's policy was on our side. I feel my teachers were able to be brutally honest with me about whether DS2 would benefit from being in reception at 4.0 or not (not being the answer) because they knew that 5.0 was a viable alternative and that, as he had started to progress fast, there was a reasonable hope that he might be ready by 5.0 (which turned out to be the case).

Pseudonym99 · 26/08/2011 16:02

mrz - they have probably been instructed to say this by the people who have been to university. They also gain the fact they end the telephone conversation quickly and get more brownie points for dealing with more phone calls.

mrz · 26/08/2011 16:07

What an odd idea Biscuit

lingle · 26/08/2011 16:10

mrz, i think it's a bit like the kind of situation you have with healthcare professionals. Whether it's the doctor or the receptionist, they tend to present a limited range of choices because that's what makes the NHS function on its budget within the available time. If you've done your research and know there's an alternative, you're taking up lots of time so you won't be looked on fondly.

mrz · 26/08/2011 16:14

lingle it's the idea that someone is coaching the poor person on the telephone to pressurise you to send your child to school I find strange and certainly not what I've experienced.

lingle · 26/08/2011 16:37

I know Mrz, it's just that I experienced a bit of it. I knew from an early stage that DS2 might not be ready (late talking, brother had been the same etc,etc,) so kept a close eye on LEA policy. Every time I phoned it was always "oh yet don't worry we give parents a choice of peer-group, etc, etc". Then they received a proposal to change their policy and suddenly I heard talk of "oh but children should be with their peers" as if suddenly the children peers (as opposed to the political background) had changed. So I can imagine many parents experienced less expert nursery staff also mouthing platitudes about how Jonny would be "fine".

I'll say it again though, I could not fault my school or nursery -they were totally on top of it. When Bradford threatened to change the policy, they said "it's not worth other summer-born's parents fighting because their kids will be ok, we can adjust for those children, but we agree you need to fight it". By this time they had had a year with DS2 and had gained considerable expertise, having taken in a withdrawn child and won his trust and got to the point of seeing some good parallel play that they needed more time to encourage.

StarlightMcKenzie · 26/08/2011 16:39

mrz Please will you and the other entlightened, forward thinking MN teachers on MN PLEASE PLEASE get together and set up a model Super School, with strict enough boundaries and discipline to allow flexible learning and schooling in true partnership with parents, based on stage not age and individual learning plans that truly mean that. Get us away from institutionalised teaching and rules that are simply for the convenience of the institutional model rather than the children, or for that mater the teachers are pretty restricted by it too. Use IT to deliver and monitor the rote learning stuff and the mundane stuff preferably to be done at home and as homework and use the classroom to use your skills as a teacher in creativity and natural environment teaching and apply context.

I'm never going to get anywhere with any school whilst I have these 'unrealistic' expectations of my ds' education, and yet I have seen papers and lectures on this very subject that go back at least 20 years. Why have we never moved on?

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mrz · 26/08/2011 16:54

Starlight it makes me very sad when I read about some children's experiences of nursery and school and it makes me feel very fortunate that I work for a head who is passionate about providing children with fantastic learning experience. We have a sign - Beware Free Range Children! which about sums it up. Yet we get results without hot housing or endless SATs pressure. We work on the Bidet method - Bottom up - not the traditional top down (preparing children for the next stage before they start the one they are at).

insanityscatching · 26/08/2011 18:02

Star the first school my ds attended had really low expectations of ds and assessed him as working towards level one at the end of year two. He moved to a small primary in year three who looked past the autism and saw that he was a bright boy. In year six he sat the SATs tests with his peers with no allowances made and got level 5,5,4. Yesterday he got his GCSE results and achieved more than the 5 A* to C including maths and english.
IME some schools do expect statemented children not to achieve very much but not all of them the trick is to find the ones that don't.

StarlightMcKenzie · 26/08/2011 18:16

Insanity, I don't have any problems with moving ds in the future. There is one thing that is consistent and that the more new experiences he has, the faster he progresses. The less well the children know him, the less they compensate him and that brings him on too.

He is bright and very clever at avoidance. For someone with little imagination or social skills he certainly knows how to play adults to reduce their expectations of him. He can really act as if he can't do something, or doesn't understand something that I have witnessed he can a thousand times before. Adults let him get away with that but new unsuspecting children don't. Sometimes even I have to think hard about whether ds is acting or not.

I wanted to speak to his new school to put some targets in place for the first few weeks, whislt the children were not aware of his difficulties, as this could potentially be his largest learning curve of the year, but the teacher doesn't want to even talk about an IEP until after half term 'when she has had a chance to assess him'.

I don't think her point is altogether unreasonable as a general one, but specific to ds, it is. As quite apart from anything else, ds has had so many assessments that there should be enough documentation without her having to do an additional 'assessment'.

So imo, that first term is going to be wasted with her 'assessing him'.

Further she scoffed at me when I mentioned meeting up to write the IEP as if I was completely out of touch and said 'we don't do IEPs, we do provision plans'. I told her I'm not too fussed about provision, it is outcomes I am interested in.

She blinked at me a bit bewildered.

Having said all that, there is something about her that makes me think she is probably an excellent teacher. She has a great reputation and I know that she has been stung before by having expectations of a child lower than she needed to and upon finding out adapted quickly. She's quite old school, (and old) and may even have covered some SN in her teacher training.

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StarlightMcKenzie · 26/08/2011 18:17

Blimey insanity! That's just brilliant news!

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StarlightMcKenzie · 26/08/2011 18:18

mrz, bottom up sounds great. I never understood why you would move on to a higher concept just because the majority had grasped it, or because it was a new half term. Some might be able to fill in the gaps themselves but eventually their learning is going to take a huge tumble simply because the foundation blocks are not there.

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insanityscatching · 26/08/2011 18:25

Star it might surprise you to know that the first school was OFSTED outstanding and the second school was in special measures when he moved.

StarlightMcKenzie · 26/08/2011 18:30

Yes, this school is outstanding, but so was his last one which was crap (actually, it wasn't crap, but it was crap at teaching him - bloody brilliant at looking after his confidence and happiness and for that I was always be grateful).

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StarlightMcKenzie · 26/08/2011 18:34

I think a lot (not all) of outstanding schools don't think there is any room for improvement. There can be a fair amount of coasting too.

Special Measures schools are motivated to improve and sometimes get resources to do it.

Seriously, I may well move ds in time, but not until dd has got in on sibling Grin. Poor girl has suffered enough at ds' expense and think this school would be excellent for her (even if the teachers already hate me)

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insanityscatching · 26/08/2011 18:48

Ds didn't fit the mould in the first one I don't think. They had their methods that obviously worked but not for ds. The second one had a lot of children that didn't fit in neat little boxes and they seemed to adapt and alter thaings rather than persisting with what was believed to work.
Ds also had a TA who believed passionately in ABA who travelled with him from the first to the second school. I think the first saw it akin to witchcraft and kept a very tight grip on what she could do. The second saw that she got results time after time and gave her more or less free reign and got her to teach them too, Win win all round.

Becaroooo · 27/08/2011 14:48

Ds1's first school was rated "outstanding"

His current school is "satisfactory" BUT he is happy and no longer showing signs of clinical depression.

Am very wary of OFSTED reports now.

mrz · 27/08/2011 14:56

I think too many parents (and a few teachers) set great store by an Ofsted Outstanding rating and dismiss good and satisfactory schools out of hand and as you've found they often are "happier" places to be (both for child and staff)

Becaroooo · 27/08/2011 15:03

I would counsel anyone looking for schools to completely disregard OFSTED reports tbh...they need to go and have a look around and see for themselves and get a feeling for the school and staff.