Active discussions

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

We have fucked up big time

89 replies

TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 08:50

DS1 is 10 and taking the 11+ next month. He has just done a paper and got 20/50 and it was basic maths. He is in the middle group at school. He is bright but doesn't enjoy school, he is an inventor really. WTF do we do now as at this rate he won't pass the 11+ but tbh my main worry is what kind of school has a child at 10 who can't get basic maths right? He has flashes of brilliance and then doesn't get basic maths right. We have 2 other children at the school, 1 extremely bright and 1 average, we don't want to let them down as well.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
spanieleyes · 20/08/2011 11:08

I'm in a "not terribly selective" grammar school area ( ie top 25% ) but this still means that anyone "average" would struggle in first of all getting into grammar and then coping once there. Half of my yr 6 passsed this year, all were working at good level 5's in maths apart from one who was HEAVILY coached for the 11+ and I have told his parents he will struggle next year. As far as I am aware, Kent grammar schools are even more "selective". So your son may well be average as the school says but might "fail" the 11+ ( although you also need to take into consideration that the tutor is running a business, it is his/her job and perhaps is more likely to say they need tutoring than to turn work away!)

sayithowitis · 20/08/2011 11:14

I thought that grammar schools tended to take something like the top 2-5% of ability range. It sounds as though your DS doesn't fit that criteria.

And, sadly, as someone else pointed out, bullies are everywhere, even in grammar schools! In fact, if he scrapes in and then struggles, he will be a bigger target than if he was in a different school where he was average to high ability within the context of the other pupils.

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 11:17

It is my younger son who is marked as average. My 10 year old is in the middle group.

He had a better session today but falls down on basic maths. Rights mm instead of cm, metres instead of metres squared.

He is taking the medway and the Kent 11+ tests.

OP posts:
Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 11:19

He is better at verbal than non-verbal.

He is also a March baby so a bit younger than some.

MY 7 year old did a paper and got 30/34.

OP posts:
mrz · 20/08/2011 11:29

Sorry but a "middle group" is average - average by definition not at the top not at the bottom.

"He had a better session today but falls down on basic maths. Writes mm instead of cm, metres instead of metres squared."

Is he getting the actual calculations correct?

because if it is just careless mistakes such as those you mention I think your tutor is alarming you for nothing as this can easily be corrected. If he is unable to do the actual calculations required then it is a bigger problem.

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 11:34

Right,Blush. I was only saying it was DC2 who is as we have been told he is. We haven't been told what DS1 is.

He comes out with answers but can't explain how he got them. The tutor wants to know how he is getting wrong answers in the hope he can explain things better for him.

We are going for a picnic now and will do some work with him later on.

Thanks for all your help.

OP posts:
mrz · 20/08/2011 11:44

I'm very confused ... you said My 10 year old is in the middle group." that would IMHO make him an average child in his class ..

"He comes out with answers but can't explain how he got them." is he coming out with the wrong answer or the correct answer? are the numbers right but the mm/cm /m/m2 incorrect?

spanieleyes · 20/08/2011 12:25

Do you have any idea what level he is working at? This would give us a better idea of how "middle" he is!
I'm assuming the Kent tests are verbal. non-verbal, maths and (possibly) English? obviously the verbal and English ones are linked and the non-verbal/maths too . But the verbal and non verbal are much more about logic and thinking than just knowledge based. So even those who are good at maths might struggle with the non verbal until they become clear on the methods to use and are able to think logically. Some children can never do this unfortunately. All a tutor can do is provide practice and technique.

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 14:45

He comes out with wrong answers and the tutor is interested to see how he got them in order to help him.

OP posts:
ProfessionallyOffendedGoblin · 20/08/2011 14:54

FAB, he's 10, so presumably about to enter Y6.
Is he already managing a good level 4b+ in his maths and English work?
Does his school give you grades on the end of year report?

mrz · 20/08/2011 14:56

Sorry I'm still confused

He had a better session today but falls down on basic maths. Rights mm instead of cm, metres instead of metres squared.

as spanieleyes levels would help provide an insight

He could just be making random guesses without thinking or he could genuinely not know

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 14:59

His report is at school so dh will look on Monday as it is on his memory stick at work.

From what I remember he was achieving what he should have been and was ahead for science.

OP posts:
mrz · 20/08/2011 15:11

It sounds as if the problem lies in the difference between NC expectations and the requirements of the 11+

ragged · 20/08/2011 20:02

A lot of good exam results is in reading the questions carefully and answering the question asked, not a slight variation of the question. It sounds like your DS may just be a bit scatty, OP, don't they drill a bit for 11+ in your county (like we have drills for SATs everywhere else)? Drilling would resolve the basic types of errors for most.

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 20:11

The school do nothing to prepare the children for the 11+. We have learnt now and the oriny is dc2 won't need any tutoring.

OP posts:
mumteacher · 20/08/2011 21:56

Really wish I could help but Kent is too far!! I have some past papers and so forth if your interested pm me.

ShoppingForCarbsWithClaire · 20/08/2011 21:59

FAB our school had the same policy. They would't do 11+ specific stuff as only 8 out of a class of 24 were put in for it. I'm in Kent too. Not far from Tonbridge. Wondering if it's the same village school? PM me for more info xx

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 22:01

We are nowhere near Tonbridge so not the same school, I am sure. Thanks all.

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 20/08/2011 22:08

Dd is also taking the 11plus in sept. She gets 90% in non verbal prcatice papers but last verbal one she got 30%. That was over a month ago though and she has been practicing lots since then. However I'm not holding my breath that she'll pass. Afaik dd is average at school, which is fine but deep down I know that average probably isn't good enough for a grammar. I went to the local grammar and I know how academic it is. I don't think it would suit dd and quite a big part of me is secretly hoping she won't pass. I don't want her to end up stressed out and struggling at a grammar.

I worry that by doing all the practice papers she'll pass when maybe she's not really bright enough to. But what do you do? She's desperate to go. Nobody used to practice when I took the test.

VivaLeBeaver · 20/08/2011 22:09

Oh and she's been crying at me saying if she doesn't pass it'll be my fault as I should have got her practicing earlier. Hmm

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 20/08/2011 22:13

That is exactly why I didn't want a tutor to train him to pass. I wanted him to get in on his own merit and not by tutoring as then he wouldn't be able to manage once there.

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 20/08/2011 22:18

Totally sympathise. I always said that we'd never get a tutor, that if dd couldn't do it with some practice papers then it wasn't the school for her. However we now have a tutor just for the verbal stuff. She won't let me explain the questions to her and was throwing strips so we got a tutor as she listens to him. But I worry we're doing the wrong thing. But then if we hadn't got the tutor - would that be the wrong thing......?

ShoppingForCarbsWithClaire · 20/08/2011 23:27

The 11+ is nothing about merit.

It's all about affording a tutor to get them into a grammar school.

iggly2 · 21/08/2011 06:46

I am sure you can pass without a tutor. Admittedly it was a long time ago I did the 11+. Surely past papers will be enough with practice. Coping with grammer school without maybe having the right personality that is something else.

Wormshuffler · 21/08/2011 06:58

I have been tutoring My DS since May for his 11+ in september, the first month was purely getting an understanding of the question types.
I agree with ShoppingForCarbsWithClaire about most parents using tutors as a way of buying their way into grammar school and it gets right under my skin. So much so that I am now unsure whether I am coaching DS because I believe he can pass and its the best place for him or more to beat the parents who chuck money at passing the test.

There are plenty of bullies at all schools, in fact I heard that the grammar in our town has the worst reputation for drugs in the whole town. Even rich kids are naughty OP.