Everyone who lives near me and can afford it seems to be sending their kids to private schools…

[sanssucre]

That's it really, I guess I've just been really surprised that none of them has even considered the local primary schools. DD will start school next year and I'd just always assumed she would go to one of the decent primary schools nearby (there are several and I'm confident we'll get into one).

Thing is, we could actually afford to go private (it would mean some sacrifices but it's do-able), we've just always wanted her to have local friends, go to a nearby school, mix with a wide variety of people etc so I haven't explored the independent option at all. However, in all honesty, the fact that so many people in a similar financial situation to ours haven't even bothered to look round the state primaries is making me wonder if I'm being hopelessly optimistic. But seriously, is it really worth spending thousands of pounds a term to teach a 4/5/6-year-old? I'm not being sarcastic or judgy, it's a genuine question, I just honestly want to know what can be so terrible about a reasonable state primary school that so many people wouldn't even give it a second look.

I appreciate that my post might raise a few heckles. I know we're very fortunate to be able to afford private education if that is the way we choose to go. I also understand that this is a very contentious/emotive issue but I'd be really grateful for some honest opinions.

midoriway - that's v interesting. I am just very ignorant about what is on offer tbh, DD1 was spent my working hours until the age of 2.9 with a mixture of au pair/childminder/grandparents. And by the time I did want her to start nursery part-time, there were only two local nurseries that had any space within about 6 months. So that's where she is, and I just assumed she'd move from there to the nearest decent primary school. Partly my sudden interest in early years/primary education etc is driven by my own guilt at having not been very on the ball about what the options are. Though I think we will still ultimately stick with the local primary school I probably should have started looking at everything that is available from when she was about 2, I just had no idea you had to start so early. I got such a shock when a parent at DD's nursery told me about the day of tests that her own DD (same age as mine) was doing, aged 2.10, to try get her into the private school of their choice.

My parents were like that. State education was never even an option. As a result I was sent to a very lacklustre convent school at age 4.

I didn't realise those attitudes were still prevalent.

Yes, I think that still happens a lot Ormirian

My perception (which might be wrong) is that you get the least bullying when the intake is very mixed.

At university, my friend who had enjoyed school the most had gone to a London comp. She was very musical and made the most of the extra-curricula activities that were available in London.

Two friends who had been to a private girls schools had been unhappy - they weren't thin and blond enough.

I was moderately happy - a state comp but not diverse ethnically.

Therefore, I was quite keen for my children to go to a school with people from all sorts of backgrounds. Also, it turns out that children are just children - they don't notice colour, language, wealth.

interesting observation, builder ? I hope you're right. Happily, all the primaries we've looked at seem to be pretty diverse socially and ethnically.

The same might be true of the independent schools to be fair, I just haven't looked at any yet

The poor child matters as much as the rich child that goes without saying. The OP was about private school and why people choose it over state hence the posh child example. If I was the parent of the poor child I'd want to choose a school with a broad social mix, where my child could thrive & one where no one gave two hoots about the fact we were poor. The sad fact is the poor family have less choice.

My kids are currently at a local state infant. However, until last year we lived in Cheshire and they went to a large, highly successful independent school. It wasn't at all the case that the local primary was poor. In fact our 3 nearest state schools were all graded outstanding. However, they were situated in a very affluent, MC, pushy area and quite frankly, they were exam factories. On top of this, everyone tutored from Y4 because the independent schools were vastly over-subscribed at 11. I just didn't want there primary school experience to be so narrowly academic, so we basically paid for the experience of school if that makes sense?

Their current school does not have anywhere near as glittering an ofsted as my old local schools but it's a happy, healthy environment. We could still afford fees but I believe in being pragmatic based on what's available to you. I think it boils down to looking at your own local options. Being swayed by other people doesn't help as they may be looking for something completely different. Nor do comments like 'all my state school friends are professionals and everyone I know who went to private school is a loser' or the other way around.

Visit all your options and make a decision based on what they offer and what you are looking for.

Well, you say you want your dd to "mix with a wide variety of people". At the first school to which I sent ds there wasn't a wide variety. Only one variety. Ds didn't fit in at all. We moved and he attended another state school and that was absolutely more than fine - excellent, actually. So I would say pick your state school just as carefully as you would if you were spending out on a private school.

Some people do have a ludicrous attitude to state schools. Dh's work colleagues' dcs are all privately educated, and apparently to a man they all think that every state school is akin to Waterloo Road, or even Jamie's Dream School. And, what is more, they seem aggrieved that ds can play the piano, win chess tournaments, string two words together etc etc. It's as if we've cheated, somehow.

Just to pick up on builders's point; When we lived up North, the independent school offerered a far greater mix both culturally and socially. With primary catchments where you couldn't buy anything for less that 400k and a comp almost predominantly serving those types of catchments, the mix wasn't great. Almost all white, all professional and all fairly snobby I might add.

So again, it depends on your own local area.

I went to state primary and independent secondary.

Lots of state schools are very good. If you can afford to go private, then that just increases your choice: consider what you want for your child (long term as well as short term) then think about whether each private or state option would suit. The fact that you hadn't looked at private suggests that the state options actually deliver what you are looking for. Don't worry about what other people think.

We chose a private prep school because:

• in our area of London the state options at secondary level are such that I would need to give up work and supplement with home teaching.
• I don't like SATs
• I think the National Curriculum is limiting
• I wanted DS to begin Latin and French early
• I want him to learn chronological rather than topic-based history
• He's shy and well-behaved and I think that he would vanish behind all the children who need more help/attention
• I would like the school to support me in insistence on good manners

There are a lot of myths in circulation about how if you don't do all the right things by the time you are three months preganant your child will never get into X school or Y school. There is usually a bit of truth in these; but moving schools/sectors at unusual times is often easier than people make out (depending on area etc)

Ok, so the poor child needs a social mix, but the rich child shouldn't be near anyone less posh who might bully him? I can't see how this is going to work, to be honest!

The most popular girl I remember at my primary was proper posh (rich as well, but more posh than rich if you see what I mean) and both her elder siblings went away to school. She was always very well-liked despite clearly talking rather 'better' than some of us (quite mixed village school) and having the most whopping house and gardens of any of us.

Perhaps the child in your hypothetical example wasn't well-liked for reasons other than wealth and class?

Agree, re: broad social mix leading to less bullying. Also means the environment is more stimulating, exciting & interesting. Problem is it isn't always easy to find depending in where you live.

I was absolutely convinced that I would send DC to my local primary school and would have laughed at any notion that I would choose private for primary or secondary.

Went to state school myself, so did DH...so no ludicrous ideas about them.

Then I made the fatal error of actually visiting my local prep...and was blown away. Seriously seriously blown away.
And that was that really. We had the dosh and it seemed daft not to spend it...

sansuccre - I think you need to look ahead beyond Primary school and I suspect this is what your friends are doing.

Knowing friends in London who go through this it is often suicidally difficult to get into a good state school, many go private the private Prep route to ensure they get taught to a sufficiently high standard to ensure they will pass the 11+ exams to get into a private secondary. The other thing is there are areas with good Primary schools that feed really rubbish state secondary schools.

Something I also discovered later (who knew?) was that many independent secondaries don't start until 13 and the entrance exams are pretty specialised...I think it would be pretty hard to convince a child to start a state secondary at 11, then leave all his classmates two years later. Also, yhr curriculum is very different.

Probably not really fair to try to do that.

MoreBeta - in all likelihood, we will end up moving out of the area by the time we're considering secondary schools, I don't want to but it feels a bit inevitable. But, were we to stay, is it really that difficult to get into a private secondary school from a state primary school should we decide we wanted to do that? I suppose that was the point of my OP, is the gap really that big by the time kids are 10/11? And if so, how depressing...

My DD's 11+ could have, I'm sure, been tackled by any pupil with the raw intellect. It wasn't a test of teaching, subject knowledge, curriculum iyswim.
And plenty of state schooled children did join in year seven too. They were a little behind, particularly in languages and maths but it all seems to have evened out just fine.

DS however, say a 12+ and I think it would have been very difficult to tackle from a state school because the pupils wouldn't have covered the same curriculum. Indeed, no one from a state school tried for it.

One advantange to living outside London is that we plan to move nextdoor into the catchment area of a excellent state secondary, as doing that will cost about half the cost of one set of fees. Have collegues in south London who have done the same calculation, and going private is cheaper for them.

Interesting Irksome, might be. Might say something positive too about your village school.

I don't know about poor children and bullying as haven't seen that happen to be honest. It's far cooler in our school to be poor than to be rich or, shudder, posh. Toffs are hated, increasingly in the current climate.

The school I spoke about, knew well some years ago had a narrow social mix and was insular. We had few situations where children didn't fare well because frankly they didn't fit in. I think it's unwise to pick a school that doesn't reflect your belief & value systems.

High risk strategy though for a super-oversubscribed school. My friend jokes she lives so close to an outstanding c of e school that the balls land in her garden.
Her DD didn't egt a place though.

Wordfactory I agree and we are at state. Our local prep is amazing. I've visited during the day and sat in on lessons. Sixteen in a class. I think private education is usually higher quality for many reasons despite what many say. The majority use state schools like us and the majority have no idea what they are missing. Sure there are a few dud independents but there are many more dud state schools. Why would anyone pay to send their child to a terrible school?

sanssucre - I think the answer is that for the brightest kids from the most supportive backgrounds, there is no gap at all - kids like these from state primaries will be quite capable of out-performing many of their privately educated peers. And by supportive, I don't mean the kids who have been coached intensively at home. I mean the kids whose parents love them, talk to them and enjoy doing things with them. For kids of more average intelligence, I should imagine suddenly being sent off to do an entrance exam they've had absolutely no preparation for would be absolutely fatal, so you would have to do a lot of work finding out what the entrance exams for the schools you are interested in entail and check that your child has been taught everything required, so that your child can go in feeling confident of what to expect and how the timing of such exams would work.

Our local primary is opposite our local secondary and secondary teachers regularly come over to help the more able children and give advice to their teachers, so that they don't plateau in terms of help and encouragement when they reach a certain point. Each year, children from the school have gone on to get scholarships and bursaries to get into private schools, although the vast majority just cross the road at age 11, or go to the other comprehensive in town, because they are both good schools and very few parents at the school would have the money for private education or feel the need to seek financial assistance to avoid the local state options. But it does depend on the child - one size never really fits all.

sanssucre - it depends what you want. If you want a high league table private secondary the competition is absolutley intense. Tutoring is more or less accepted as essential and thats even the DCs who have been at private Prep. On the other hand, house prices in catchments of good state schools are usually very high. In reality, most parents seem to start the calculation of how to get their DC into a good London secondary school at about age 7.

A lot of people move to places like Oxford and end up putting their DD in private school there to. All in all I don't envy our friends with Primary school age childen who live in London. I agree it is depressing.

But Rabbitstew, having used both sectors within the last 2yrs I have found that there is a gap but not where many people think. I have found the difference to be the experience of the school day and the utter enjoyment of school. My kids are happy at the state infant school they are now at. Happier than they would be at the local prep options which I didn't think much of. However, it is less fun and there are far less 'wow' moments for them within everyday school life than they had last year.

The independent school they attended in Cheshire was a 'wow' environment where kids couldn't wait to go and wanted to go at weekends too! Which is why we chose it over the outstanding, high achieving local primary.

At 11, bright kids will be much of a muchness I believe. Those at prep may be slightly further ahead but not to the extent that they could not catch up. But I wasn't paying to give them an academic advantage rather to give them an enjoyable experience of school.

Again, it depends what you're looking for and what you have available.