Sex Education for Primary School Age - Advice needed

[Jockette]

Hi, I am after some advice as I have a meeting coming up with my child primary school this month. I am concerned about the sex education and innapropriate use of naming intimate body parts at age 5. I have since removed my child from being involved in further sex ed lessons, but how can I show the school that I think 5, 6 and 7 is way to young for the kids to be learning information they don't need to be aware of at that age. What age do any of you think is appropriate for your child to be taught the breakdown of the female body part?

My DD1 was a in a mixed class last year 12xY2, and 6xY1, my DD was a Y1 has an August birthday. Last year the topic of body parts was covered in her class, so DD was aged 5.

It was handled very well by the school and we were informed as parents that the children had been learning about life cycles which also included learning the "scientific" names for body parts, my DD already knew many of the names and had been present when I gave birth to her brother a week earlier so had seen some bits in action.

Tbh the children took it in their stride, I know this as I was present for one of the lessons when I took the above mentioned baby in for them to look at as he was ovbiously new on the life cycle, and we also looked at him bare and the children named his body parts.

When I was given DD's workbooks to take home at the end of the year there was a worksheet where the children had to draw pencil liines to link printed words to the correct parts of the body. One of these words was clitoris. I was really surprised as this is not something I had named with her, or discussed, as like the OP I would think of this as a "sexual" organ rather than a reproductive - so wouldn't have necessarily asumed it would have been covered as part of life-cycles. It would have taken me by surprise if she had asked about a clitoris only because I was unaware that that would woould be included in the topic area - but I would have answered. I don't have a problem that it was taught.

Gordon, you are being a little rude to the OP. She not joking, this is standard sex ed in our area too. Obviously it doesn't happen where you live or work but the cirriculum is often different across different parts of the country. Please stop call the OP Joke-ette.

Himalaya; why does a 10 year old need to know what a clitoris is?or indeed what it is for. My 12 doesnt know,and it doesnt affect her, she is no less developed than the rest of her friends, she learns about the essentials and i have spoken to her about sex ed etc and we are very open, but why would she need to know at 10?my 8 year old doesnt now what one is either and tbh hats just the way i like it, i didnt know what one was until i was n my teens so why should they know so young? to know about periods and to be able to tell your parents that something is wrong is enough to know the ins and outs at an early age is wrong and thats my opinion, i will continue to raise my 5 kids in this way,at least then they get to keep their innocence for a bit longer. I am aware that girls can start their periods as young as 8 and yes they should be told about them,i am very open with my 3 dd's,but only giving them information that they need at their age, what i feel is appropriate in my opinion, my kids my choice.
(and btw the spleen helps to filter and clean the blood as well as fight infection, quite an important organ.)

Job84 -

Because it's part of their body, and unlike their spleen it's on the outside so they've probably noticed (along with their uvula, septum, patella etc... Why should some body parts be nameless?) Some girls have a more prominent clitoris than others. They need to know that all shapes and sizes are ok, particularly when they start developing, not that it's all a mystery 'down there'.

Little boys know that their testicles have a name (both proper and nursery/playground versions) long before they know what it is for. According to your need-to-know basis are their balls unmentionable until they are ready to learn about sperm production?

Many little girls find out that it feels nice when you rub it, just like little boys do with their penis, and little boys discover their testicles are delicate.

Mothers don't necessarily know what their daughters fAntisise about, and what they do in the bath or under the covers. And neither should they, but parents ime often assume that their children are more innocent than they are and hold back on basic information. So you have sex ed at school

I am not sure how you can be open with your children if certain word are proscribed. How do you know if they masturbate, or have questions about madturbation if you can't use the word masturbation? How do you know if they've noticed their clitoris, if it is unmentionable?

I am aware that these subjects may come up at bathtime with mummy and I have no problem with that whatsoever.

I am just trying to imagine a normal Y1 class, and how the idea of the clitoris is explained. You say some are bigger than others... ok... but how would that be explained to a class of 5 year olds?

If a child mentioned it, I would say ask mummy. I would not (could not) describe how it looks or what it's used for to a 5 year old......

Now children, in a girl's front bottom there's this little thing that's like a pleasure button.........

himalaya: no words are forbidden, you make me out to be some sort of prude that thinks these things to be unmentionable, i do not. I do not have to explain to you how open i am with my kids, i know what they know and i know that my 12 year old girl knows less than the 11 year old boy, i have had to explain alot to her recently. I have a very good relationship with all 3 of my daughters and both of my sons, when they want to know something i will tell them especially if they have heard something at school in the playground and it has confused them or if they see things on tv etc. Nothing is a mystery to my kids, if they want to know i will tell them and when I feel the time is right I will go to them, why should someone else make that decision for me? I like my kids to be kids, if that annoys you then i am very sorry, but please dont question my parenting, or make me out to be something i am not, my 8 year old knows about periods and bodily changes, my 4 year old knows her bits and can tell me if she has a problem and the elder boy will talk to me and his dad too, other son is too young to even understand what i am saying yet, so i am not doing them any harm by not explaining the ins and outs of the clitoris if they dont want to know right now. I know my kids are well aware that not everyone is the same in any part of their body, they are not stupid.
They can say any words to me and i will explain it, as will their dad if they went to him, i do not get embarrassed by anything so its not a problem i just think my kids can be kids for as long as they want to be.

But I still don't understand why is ok (presumably) for a 6 year old boy or girl to know that those wrinkley dangly things are called testicles, but not ok to know that the pointy, sensitive bit is called a clitoris?

It is ok for them to be told in a private mummy/daughter situation. I don't have a problem with it.

But I don't think a classroom is the place to address a clitoris with a 5 year old! And, as I've said, I have no idea how you'd even go about explaining or describing it, especially as most of the girls will have no idea they've got one! What is the point of it?

they dont want to know, simple as that
my kids know what they want to know and what they need to know, i cant think of a good reason as to why a 6 year old would need to know about a clitoris as it is purely for sexual pleasure once you tell them the name they want to know what its for then you open possibly more cans than you need to for that age range. Testicles are a different thing as they are easily damaged and important in reproduction later in life, a clitoris is generally tucked away quite neatly, not hanging down between a womans legs, therefore in no apparent danger.
If my kids want to know then i will tell them,until that day i think i will let them just be aware that if anything unusual is going on with them then they know they can always come to me or their dad.

I think it goes something like this in school at KS1

Girls and boys have somewhat different bodies, what differences have you noticed?
This is because girls grow into women and boys into men, what differences have you noticed between adults?
There are also differences inside our bodies so thst women, when they are ready can have babies that grow inside - who has a little brother, sister, pregnant mum etc..what did you notice?
It takes 9 months, the baby grows inside from tiny speck to a baby that is ready to be born. The baby is born from the vagina (or sometimes by c-section) . When it's inside it gets food from the mums body, when it's born the mum makes milk for the baby in her breasts... Isn't it amazing and wonderful..
All the different parts of the body have names - nicknames and proper names (and sometimes names that are consisdered rude - please don't use them).
Boys have 2 holes, girls have 3 (you'd be surprised how many much older girls don't know this...) - for wee, pop and a long time in the future maybe babies.
Can you recognise and name the main parts - penis, testicles, foreskin, vulva, vagina, labia, clitoris, urethra, uterus
These are your private parts, It's ok to touch yourself to explore or because you feel like it, sometimes your parents or dr might need to look if you are poorly, but if any body ever touches you in a way you don't like, or asks you to touch them this is what you should do...

I don't think they get into sperm, eggs and the mechanics of all that, and periods, till KS2

Jeez! Some of our KS1 teachers don't know all that!
We only do getting taller as you get older.

I guess that's why we have so many pre-teenage pregancies in Year 4.

Poo, I mean, not "pop"!

gordongrumblebum lol!! I have laughed at alot of your comments

If you start telling a child what a clitoris is they are going to want know what it is for, himalaya if you can think of the right way to explain that to my 8 year old i would love to know. Yes these things may or may not be presented to my child in school, i have taught my kids to not be ashamed of their bodies as we are all born different. As i said before the clitoris has no use to a child, as long as they can tell me or a doctor if they have a problem then thats ok by me. I have a 20 month old, so my kids know quite a bit about how babies are made, how they come out etc. I have told my 12 year old that as soon as a girl/woman has a period they are able to fall pregnant, one thing not enough teenagers are told. Luckily my daughter has no interest in having a baby as the night feeds with her baby brother have put her off as did the nappies, sick etc, she has seen what it is like first hand, how hard it really is.
Maybe i dont go by what the government set out, but the government isnt raising my kids, i am. I would much rather my kids learnt maths, history, geography etc and in their own time learn about sexual pleasures etc. Reproduction is different.
This ks1 programme doesnt actually specify what the clitoris is for, the rest can be explained to kids as reproductive organs, but not the clitoris,its purely a sexual thing. Just questioned my 8 year old on whether she knew what one was, she didnt, she had heard the name but wasnt bothered by wanting to know as it doesnt have a use to her, so i rest my case, she doesnt want to know, my 12 year old doesnt want to know, and it would be impossible to make my 4 year old understand what i am going on about. So why tell them something that is completely useless to them.
Right now to go on to the cbbc page and teach her something useful on her day off because of teacher training.
Thanks charlotte btw xx

Ahh the old clitoris poblem. I'm the sex ed coordinator for my school, and the scheme our LA uses includes naming the clitoris in Year 2. From talking to the LA advisor it seems that just about every school seems to have somebody getting their knickers in a twist about it, far more than any other aspect of the sex ed programme. Infact one school spent six months battling at governors meetings about this one small aspect of the sex education policy. I have Year 2 teachers who don't want to do that part, and although I think they should for similar reasons already stated, I really haven't got the energy to go into battle about it.

Incidentally we introduce it in the Channel 4 Living and Growing program, where they show a drawing of the vagina, and describe the clitoris as 'a small button at the top which feels nice when you rub it'. And that's it, other than one of the labels you would then use for the body parts, really doesn't feel such a biggie to me but obviously is for some.

I don't understand how a part of your own body that you can reach with your hands can be 'age inappropriate'.

I would explain it as hockeyforjokey says something like 'a sensitive bit at the front, like a little button which feels nice when your rub it.' I wouldn't start giving instructions or anything.

Like sucking your thumb, lots of kids discover it on their own, and I imagine most nursery/reception teachers can tell stories about blissed out kids in the sandpit with their hands down their pants, rubbing up against table corners etc...

I think it is easier and less embarrassing to mention the word clitoris amongst all the other parts, to a class of 7 year olds, who just accept it like learning the word uterus, rather than for a class of 13 year olds who are at the height of teenaged awkwardness, and for whom it is more personally relevant. The teenagers feel embarrassed in front of their peers because they masturbate, or because they don't masturbate and suddenly a teacher is saying this word, which they've probably heard before on the playground but which they've never heard an adult say before.

Its just a part of your body, it seems weird why it cannot be named.

I'll give those instructions to my 23 year old male colleague then..... or will he be doing show and tell with his willy?

Thank god we only have to get into this at Y5/6.

In fact, I've just e-mailed him the link to the thread. I think he'll find it enlightening.

Himalaya, kids ask questions, if they are told clitoris and it isnt explained what its for at school they are going to go home and as parents what it does, explain? yeah well dd if you keep rubbing... you know it sounds as though you have a great way of explaining it so what would you say if your child asked 'what is a clitoris for mummy?' ovaries got it, womb sorted, vagina yep, urethra check , testes uh-huh, penis yeh, clitoris hmmm, its what women use to get sexual pleasure my little girl who thinks that sex is for reproduction at the moment because she couldnt understand why people would for it for fun. Even explaining that to my son of 11 would be hard to do. Perhaps that is most defo a job for dad.
My kids are like terriers with a tugger,if they want to know something they go n and on and on and on and....... you get the picture just telling them what it is wouldnt be enough, they would want to know what it is for, most kids i know would be like that

Hockeysforjockeys - what I don't understand is if the whole clitoris thing causes such a problem why not just edit it out? What do schools have to gain by insisting on teaching something that is bound to cause problems with parents? It's not as if it's a crucial part of learning at this stage.

oh and Jockette, when you go into school you might want to ask to see all the videos, if you are on the living & growing series ( and it sounds like you are) next up for your dd at age 7 is a cartoon simulation showing a couple running around the bedroom then having sex in a couple of different positions whilst the childs voiceover says " they do look happy don't they" I would post a link but it seems C4 have removed it from their website - can't imagine why?!!!

I have been to the school today and put in a request for video, notes, lesson plans and sex ed policy. since found out sex ed only complusory in Secondary Schools. Hopefully get info soon and can find out more about it all. I take into account what others are saying and agree that the reproductive bits and pieces are a science biological lesson, but sexual pleasure organs and eek now positions, just aren't appropriate in my eyes. Surely would only open up a huge can of worms when the children may think that these can be looked at or touched with or without consent. Sex is not even legal until 16!!!!

well said jockette

shakira123 the famous feather scene (yes they do indeed chase each other around with feathers). We don't use that section until Year 6, as indeed do most schools, so I'd appreciate you not scaremongering about what happens at the age of 7.

The reason that clitoris has become such an issue is that those who want to use it feel that people are only get upset because it is about female sexual pleasure, and so it becomes a point of principle that we don't imply that female sexuality is shameful. It is taught at a fairly young age that the penis becomes hard (not sure if it is Year 2, or 3 or 4) which is a nice feeling, and we never have complaints about that. Therefore it starts to become a feminist issue, of which I'm sympathetic. However as I have said, I don't have the desire to have to deal with this, so if teachers choose to leave it out I'm not going to make a big deal out of it.

Kids ask all kinds of questions that are much harder to find an age appropriate (I.e. comprehensible, true but not TMI) answer to than what is the clitoris for. ... why is the sky blue, how did the world begin, what happens when you die, why do trees lose their leaves in winter etc...

I don't think just knowing that the clitoris has a name would make every child immediately hung up about what's it for (afterall what is the earlobe for,the uvula, the septum etc..) .

I wouldn't wouldn't be filled with horror with them knowing though. 'you rub it and it feels nice' is a pretty good first explanation of what it's for - it's for feeling nice, why would something that feels nice need further explanation? Any kid can tell you that - what is thumbsucking for? Hugs, kisses, tickling, rocking babies stroking cats.

I don't think it's a discussion that leads directly to the topic of sex, but when you are talking about sex it might come when you say that people do it because it's fun and it feels nice.

I think when you tell children about sex you should tell then the truth simply, in small doses, as much as they want to know. If they have a misconception you should clarify it, not try to keep them believing in a lie.

I don't think letting them carry on with the misunderstanding, (or leading them to believe) that people only have sex for reproduction is being open. It's not a simplified version of the truth. It's just not true.

That people have sex for fun is not a hard concept for a kid to grasp (grown ups do loads of things for fun that kids don't see the point in). That your parents have misled you about that basic fact for years is harder. I can see why you wouldn't want them asking questions about the clitoris in that case. But it's not really a hard thing to explain, it's only hard if youve not been honest about other stuff.