Girls wearing shorts under school dresses

[eandemum]

When DD (5) started wearing her summer school uniform (the usual- checked summer dress) I got her shorts to wear. Not Bobby Charlton style really baggy ones, more like black cycling shorts in T-shirt material - we call them "modesty shorts"!!

Anyway, DD comes home on Thursday with a note re: this (all got this note not just her) - saying such shorts were not part of the uniform and shouldn't be worn (leggings were ok in certain cases).

She doesn't wear them for religious reasons - just 'preserving her dignity' - we have practised sitting in a ladylike fashion but I know this goes out the window once she is in school.

I wrote back suggesting a compromise; white shorts that don't come below the hemline (her black shorts would be at the hemline) so can't be seen.

What do you think?

[LawrieMarlow]

Looking at the thread more, it seems to be an issue with potentially gaping pants.

So buy better fitting pants. DD's pants never gape.

[BunnyWunny]

My 5 year old dd takes great delight in showing the other kids her knickers!

They have knicker comparison sessions to see who has the best motifs- princesses and hello ittys win at the moment.

Why on earth does she need to protect her modesty? From who or what?

[LynetteScavo]

At one school DS1 attended, a letter came home saying girls should wear shorts under summer dresses, so their knickers didn't show when they did handstands/cartwheels.

Personally I think it should be at the parents discretion. Personally I'm quite happy for my DD to flash her well fitting, large area covering pants.

[Ephiny]

It seems a bit weird to wear both shorts and a skirt or dress at the same time. If you're not happy with her wearing a dress, can't she just wear school uniform shorts like the little boys do, with a shirt/blouse? Or is that not allowed? Otherwise dress and properly-fitting knickers should be sufficiently 'modest'

[duchesse]

It drives me fricking nuts that schools insist on skirts for girls in the first place. But they have no business specifying what people wear as underwear! Nothing inherently wrong with knickers but if the embarrassment of showing them would prevent from leading a normal child's life then it's a good second option.

[mrz]

But are normal 5 year olds embarrassed by their knickers or are they more often like Bunny Wunny's daughter and eager to show off their Hello Kitty pants?

State primary schools can't insist children wear dresses or skirts but I think parents should think carefully about their reasoning for putting a child in a dress and shorts ...

[seeker]

Particularly if you call them "modesty shorts".

[FlorenceMattell]

says more about parents than child imo. Normal big knickers should suffice.
Children are loosing their childhood.

[SoupDragon]

If your child's knickers are gaping, buy some that fit properly.
If they are wee stained and skiddy, teach them to use the toilet and wipe properly.
If the girl is older and decides on her own she wants "modesty shorts" fine.
Failing that, send them in wearing just shorts to start with!

[SoupDragon]

I thought we'd moved away from having to wear bloomers to protect our modesty

[silverfrog]

If I tried to put dd2 in "modesty shorts" she would have a meltdown - after all, no one would be able to see her carefully chosen and coordinating pants if I did that

people really worry about a 5 year olds "modesty"? wtf?

I can understand an older girl wanting to not flash her knickers - talking about Yr5/6, where boys may well be making a fuss baout having seen a girls pants etc - sill yplayground stuff, but understandable.

but ot put shorts on under a dress, so that at circle time a little girls' pants are not visible is madness, surely?

totally agree with - if the pants gape, buy some that don't. dd2 is a tiny skinny little hting, but her pants fit just fine

[fairydoll]

BRING BACK BLOOMERS!!

[Selks]

OP, if your daughter wants to wear shorts under her dress then I would challenge the school on this......but I'm concerned about you 'teaching her how to sit to preserve her dignity' etc.....she is a child for heaven's sake, she should be unselfconscious...you are teaching her to be very self conscious and almost ashamed of her body and I would be concerned about the effect of this on her psyche and self identity as she grows to be honest if it were my child.

[lexcat]

What is coming to the world, really 5 years having to worry about showing her knickers is ridiculous. Thing are getting silly dd was told by another girl (11) in a girls changing room she must cover herself to get dressed. As my dd says (age 10) about people seeing her knickers "it's no worst them people seeing me in my swim suit" she's an avid swimmer. I'm pleased she sees no need to wear shorts under her skirt instead she wears plain white knickers. Yes, teach children some modesty but I think you really can go to far.

The thing that makes me mad is schools who have made it compulsory for girl to wear shorts under skirts/dresses. Why don't they just get girls to wear shorts.

[seeker]

They only start worrying if their mother keeps saying stuff like "Oh, come here and get your modesty shorts on - if you can't sit in a ladylike fashion we have to encase you in lycra to preserve your dignity."

[AbigailS]

I'm not saying they HAVE to wear shorts, but if a child is getting upset because boys are commenting I don't see why they should be left feeling bad. It does seem to be older children, not 5 and 6 year olds, and some of them really are developing, so boys notice. We can work on the issue in PSHE session, etc, but we struggle to prevent comments / looks happening altogether. But I really feel for the child that, for what ever reason, has been made self concious about her body and avoids doing things they find fun because of it.
I am lucky though, my DDs school and the schools I've work in have a uniform, but are not at all gender specific about trousers and shorts. Maybe you could approach a governor to raise it at a governor's meeting?

[seeker]

Absolutely, if an older girl wants to wear shorts then of course that's fine. In my experience they've mostly stopped wearing summer dresses byt then anyway. I've had my rants in the past about year 5 and 6 children changing together too.

But this thread is about a 5 year old being taught to "sit in a lady-like way" "preserve her dignity" and wear "modesty shorts"

Not the same thing at all, IMHO!

[FranSanDisco]

My dd has often complained of dinner ladies (sorry, midday assistants) telling her to put her pe shorts on for hand stands etc. I have told her it is obligatory to flash one's pants at primary school. Why can't children have a childhood and not be in training for adulthood from 5 yo?

[montmartre]

Yes- of course, we should have them in ankle length skirts so that boys aren't tempted to look at their legs.

She is 5- get a grip- who cares if anyone sees her knickers, just make sure they cover her bum properly.

[AC67]

I am not sure I understand the problem - what is wrong if their knickers are seen from time to time? There is nothing wrong with knickers! Sounds like we are regressing a bit to put little girls back in big bloomers - I may be misunderstanding but it seems like the messaging implies something shameful about girls showing a bit more of themselves than usual when they move about in their summer uniforms - surely the boys and those adults who take issue with this are the ones who need to modify their attitude//comments etc?

[lljkk]

"What is wrong if their knickers are seen..." But what is wrong with a pair of white or black cycle shorts? Truth is my some boys try to have a gander (and always have tried to, since time immemorial), and the girls aren't stupid, they soon talk among themselves and know what the boys are up to. School is being U making an issue of it.

[mrz]

Does it matter is five year old boys see five year old girls knickers? Do you know what happens when they get changed for PE ? It isn't unusual to have naked children in reception
In fact does it matter how old the knicker wearer is as long as they are wearing knickers.

[seeker]

""What is wrong if their knickers are seen..." But what is wrong with a pair of white or black cycle shorts? Truth is my some boys try to have a gander (and always have tried to, since time immemorial), and the girls aren't stupid, they soon talk among themselves and know what the boys are up to. School is being U making an issue of it."

We're talking 5 year olds here! That is one of the most profoundly depressing posts I have read for a long time.

[fairydoll]

But some 5 yo are uncomfortable about showing their knickers-mine for one.That hasn't come from me! Why should she curtail her gymnastics etc if a pair of little shorts makes her feel more comfortable.

[mrz]

Would she be happy doing gymnastics in a leotard?