Male teachers in primary school

[anawee23]

Hi Ladies,
Just wondering if you would like to give me your opinions on male teachers in primary schools and whether you think there are enough of them, feel free to be honest and straightforward.

I am currently training to be a teacher and have the task of researching and discovering what parents and adults in general think about Male primary school teachers and whether there is a connection to the bad publicity and the fact that there are less than female teachers?

I have done all my research regarding statistics and facts and figures, but would love to know how the general public and parents feel about this matter/topic.

Thank you for participating, I look forward to reading your replies.

What do you think would bring about such a shift?

I'm wordy because I'm trying to be very clear so I don't end up clarifying constantly (and I'm proofing what may be my last piece of academic work this weekend), but tis a terrible habit. Ultimately, I too would wish for a world in which primary teaching was less gendered (and more highly regarded-primary teachers are education specialists like no other), where there were equal numbers of men and women across all age ranges and in management positions, and think it would be good to reflect that to young kids. What I have doubts about is whether the rhetoric of 'role models' really makes that more likely, and that's why what it means matters.

For instance, if one point is to appoint good teachers who embody certain values, where getting a gender balance overall is a bit of a bonus. Another way might be to suggest to kids that 'men' can have some attributes they might see as 'feminised' (especially if, like reading, those attributes are quite cool). Here men disappoint if they are very manly man, ex-rugby playing sergeant major types. A third might be to think that (as many here do) male teachers should embody distinct male virtues, and here I would disappoint by being me. I don't know which of those three led some parents to request their children ended up in my class, but that they mainly had DSs suggests second and third, not first. This is somewhat worrying for my relationship with those parents next year.

And which you think defines role model also affects how you feel about 'more' men, which men, and the priority given to appointing them. Because if you think distinct sterotyped virtues should be embodied by teachers' genders (disciplinary men, nurturing women), you are not going to get many male KS1 teachers. So we'll end up in Yrs 5 and 6, where status makes us likely to be management, and so creates a view in which men rule and women work.

I wish I knew! How do you change (present company excepted):
Everyone assuming primary teaching is just glorified mummying, so anyone can do it?

The view that secondary is more important than primary because the children are older?
That teaching generally is poorly paid in comparison because its a vocation, so salary doesn't matter?
The ridiculous hours needed to give the children what they deserve (the very best)?
Somewhat limited scope for career progression?
Lack of respect for teachers by general public? The belief that teachers can be shouted at or spoken rudely to when parents feel strongly, but we can't put up the sort of notices that GPs have about threatening behaviour not being tolerated because parents have a right to feel so strongly about their children?
Some or all of the above, and many things that I haven't thought of.
It would be interesting to hear why dads on here wouldn't want to go into teaching.

There is a belief that the complexity of the subject determines the complexity of education. This isn't necessarily true, I've delived seminars on topics in which I am one of the 20 best qualified people whose ever lived which were less well thought out pedagogically than a phonics refresher class. But it is reflected in pay and perception, and there is a general belief that 'teaching' is about 'content' not 'delivery', and you only become aware it isn't if you teach....

But, unfortunately, I think part of the problem is simply that men are not expected to be around kids (which is just chicken-and-egging, I know, but explains the present situation). One of the perks of the job, and a substantial financial one (I earn 40% of my old salary, but bring home as much money), is its security and flexibity around childcare. Many men don't plan their careers thinking of this, so miss it. And, the job does involve elements of childcare, and men, especially those thinking of a career change, are often ill-equipped for that because they lack experience. Hence, to take 'mature' entrants, for instance, the typical GTP candidate is a woman who has become a TA on having kids, and now wants to use her experience as a teacher. The irony of this is that, as this thread shows, if they are halfway competent around kids men get seen as heroes-it's actually an easier life for men in many ways (as it is if they are carers pre-school).

I do what I can to dispel the first at careers fairs-love watching secondary teachers spout on about subject specialisms then opening with 'when I was writing my first book for x univeristy press' and explaining why pedagogy for KS1 was a bigger challenge. But ultimately if men feel anxious, uncertain and unable around small kids (and clearly many who are fathers do, as posters here state) it's very hard to persuade them that a career with small kids is worthwhile. And, perhaps, we shoudn't, for everyone's sake.

3 male teachers at DD's primary and the janitor who takes football club at lunchtimes for KS1 and KS2.

Less wordily:

The basic prerequisite of the job is an ability to take pleasure in being around young kids. More women than men know they have this becasue of the roles they adopt in life (either pre-18 or after). The profession has come (like so many 'caring' professions) to use this prerequisite as a definiton-good primary school teachers like kids is true only insofar as you'll be bad if you don't, it isn't a statement that liking kids makes you a good teacher.

Add the two together and it is very hard to recruit men (and the second is something that primary tecahers themselves are often, understandably, fond of doing).

I've yet to find any 'bad publicity' which is nearly as critical as those two things combined.

I volunteered as a (male) teaching assistant for 1 year and was the only assistant . Also there was only 1 male teacher. Out of a total staffing of about 35.

Since leaving in July 2010 due to the lack of opportunities to move forward there is now just one male teaching staff member for 250 children.

Also, whilst there I found the female staff preferred socialising only with other females and did feel awkward and over careful due to the publicity around paedophiles , though it now seems many are female...

As with other under-represented groups (black, asian, female, disabled etc) measures should be implement to promote and positively assist men into both teaching and especially TA roles to provide good male role models and for the sake of fairness.

35 staff for 250 children!

My son

reception .......female........

year one ......female.....

year two.........male.................

year three.....female..........

year four....male [first teaching post]

year five ...male [starts sept]

My son enjoyed his lessons with male teachers soooooooooooo much more.

I feel at parents evenings the male teachers are more in touch with my child, the female ones just do the business.

He has two years to go at primary and is up to the level of finishing year 6, and I put that down to male teachers.

Out of 9 teachers in my school we have 2 males - the Head and an NQT. The Head is a great guy and I can honestly say all his decisions are made solely for the good of the kids.

The NQT has just completed his first year and due to his charisma and enthusiam the kids adore him. However, he's made it clear that he only plans to stay for 3 years then move on, as he wants to become a deputy within 5 or 6 years. I admire the ambition, but for me his attitude shows no real desire to become the best teacher he possibly can. I dunno.

He has two years to go at primary and is up to the level of finishing year 6, and I put that down to male teachers.

And what about all the children in a similar position who have had female teachers, what do you put that down to?

spainiel......I cannot comment on other children as I dont know their levels all I know is that when my son has a male teacher he flies with his interest and education.

Interesting that only two teachers have contributed to your son's academic success ... I guess he was unable to read, write and count when he started in Y2 ... shocking teaching!

I am amazed that you can look at a teacher getting good results and judge that this is down to gender. Not training, performance, relationships with children, nothing. It's down to their Y chromosome.

Daughter is now following son into (crap) male teacher's class. It's amazing how many conversations with other parents I have had that go:

'Well we know that X isn't a great teacher, of course, but we are so happy that our DS / DD will have the experience of being taught by a male teacher'

WTF????? How come his ownership of a Y chromosome transcend the fact that he is boring, can't keep order, has taught the same lessons for the past 10 years, sets ludicrously unchallenging work, never displays any children's work, and sets such low standards in presentation of written work that the female teacher the following year spends the first term of the year reinforcing basic handwriting and punctuation...

Or course I am not saying the female teachers did not do their job.

I am saying he excelled in the males teachers classes and when the male teachers are discussing my son I feel they really know who they are talking about.

The females to me are just doing the job.

If you don't like my opinion fair enough but I am only going by MY experiences.

I suspect that traceybeaker may be 'seeing what she is looking for' - she believes male teachers to be better for male children, and so her perception of the progress her child makes in those classes has 'observational bias' - she sees what she expects to see.

It would be interesting to track 'actual progress' in levels each year compared with that assertion.

However, it sometimes is the case that some teachers attach particular value to particular traits in children that may be more common in one gender than the other - one teacher may value neatness and excellent presentation, or being very quiet in class, or being less physically active, another teacher may value risk-taking and bold imagination and physical energy .. so one teacher may perceive a child as 'able' or 'making particularly good progress' because they have more of the traits that they value IYSWIM?

I get a lot of this with DS and DD - DS is, in 'raw' terms, brighter than DD BUT he is 'spiky' (exceptionally good at some things, poor fine motor skills), shy around adults and less school-shaped. DD is your 'model pupil' - bright across the board, conscientious, adult-friendly. Only a few teachers see DS's excellence, all see DD's!

tracey, as you are only going by your experiences, it is of course quite possible that your school has had 2 good teachers (who happen to be male) and 3 less good teachers (who happen to be female). The gender is irrelevant - it is that the quality of teaching has been better in two of the classes.

I never wanted my kids to have the male teachers, because I kept hearing that all the kids did was play and never did any work.

How wrong was I.

DC have since had several male teachers, all very different personalities, and they have been absolutely fantastic. They all approached teaching in a different way, seemed to relate to the "problem" children much better, had a way of getting the best out of the kids, and yes, a lot was through what appeared to be playing. They covered topics in a way that motivated both boys and girls.

Downsides have been they are less focussed on the practical skills of handwriting, spelling, writing skills, punctuation, believing "it will come", but as they dont seem to be taught it, not sure when they will ever learn these skills properly

I think there are good and not so good teachers of both sexes and it's unreliable to judge based on gender alone.

IME lots of male teachers are very good at "charming" parents and I confess to having worked with some who fit large parts of teacherwith2kids' description but I've also worked with some very good male teachers who did an excellent job/

There are one or two male teachers at my dd's school. Mainly in the Junior school. I have several (male and female) friends who teach and it always strikes me how much more tough it was for the guys when they trained. They had to really justify themselves all the time to friends and family about their reasons - particularly the one who is an EYFS teacher. What a shame! No one ever questioned the girls in the same way. I would love my child to have a mixture of teachers through her school career, in terms of gender, teaching style and other differences.

Ugh, Mrz, you've reminded me of a teacher I once had the misfortune to work with. He charmed all the mothers to the point where it was a bit eek! and then when they left he would comment on their general attractiveness/possible sexual preferences. As far as I know he never got picked up for it (I was only on placement there for a while) but he was truly awful.

That's interesting ILoveDolly the general opinion is that it is much easier for males because they are seen as a rarity

I know a male head who says when he qualified schools were fighting to have him in reception because they wanted a token male on the staff

ButWhyIsTheGinGone sounds very familiar very cringe worthy

I just want my kids to be taught by someone who is good at their job and enthused by it all regardless of their sex.

A good role model to me is someone who will instill in them a love of learning and a thirst for knowledge. Someone who models good manners and respect for others. It has never occured to me that a penis is required for this.