Don't know what to do for the best - DS struggling with friendships at school

[JackiePaper]

my lovely ds is nearly 7 and goes to the local village primary school - there are 25 kids in his year, of which 10 are boys. DS is a very bright child who loves cars, trains and lego but unfortunately for him there are no other boys on his wavelength. All the other 9 boys play together in a big gang and play football every playtime, ds doesn't really like football and is not brilliant at physical stuff. He has tried to join in with them but they either make up a reason why he can't play, or they let him play but never kick the ball to him, so he has given up trying to play with them. There is one boy who appears to be 'ring leader' of them and last term ds had problems with this boy pushing hitting and calling him names. I spoke to the school several times and wrote to the governers and this seems to have stopped for now thank goodness.
He almost always plays with 2 or 3 girls who are similar ability to him and sit on the same table in class, and he has been round to their houses a couple of times and they have been here. They are lovely girls but I get the impression they let him join in with them because they are nice kind girls, and ds has no other options. for example he told me today they were playing mermaids so he was a dolphin - but it's not a game he would choose to play iykwim - when he's with his cousins he plays spies, police, space explorers etc.
My dilemma is that I don't know whether to move him to a bigger school about 10 miles away (which would involve moving house - we rent so not a huge deal) that's closer to where dh and I work and has 60 children per year where there is more chance of him finding some boys who have the same interests as he does? The main problem is that I have a dd who is due to start reception in september and the potential new school is full so she is on the waiting list.

I just don't know what to do for the best. I feel so sad for him that he doesn't have any friends who are really on his wavelength, but what if i move him to a new school and he doesn't make friends there? At least where he is at the moment he does have someone to play with most of the time, although there have been occasions when they girls wouldn't let him play either - I suspect this is because they are getting older - the two girls he plays with will be 8 in september. He doesn't hate school anymore since the teasing stopped, but he doesn't love it either, and I feel so sad when he tells me no-one would play with him at playtime :(

Sorry for the huge post and thanks for any advice x

Have you spoken to ds about moving schools? If he's all for it then that's a sign to get him out. DS1 used to have trouble mixing and is now (at 13) very popular. He started being popular in yr5. He's also very bright and not into football though he has improved with his playing seen as they do it in sport at his new school.

Your son sounds lovely, he'd fit in very well with my 2 boys

girlbythesea, thankyou your post has made me well up a bit, ds is a lovely lovely little boy and it's breaking my heart to see him feeling so isolated and different and not valued :(

I have just spoken to the school nearer ds's work and they do definately have a year 2 place and they are going to call me back tomorrow with a time to go in and look around.

I am sort of friends with a few of the football boys mums, they are nice people just quite different to us in a lot of ways. one or two of the boys in particular are nice boys and who have on occasion stuck up for ds when the other boys were teasing him, it's just that they have very different interests to him and all they want to play at school is footie. The school is also held in very high esteem by all the other mums and they would all think i was bonkers to move ds.

I don't think we have much of a chance of getting dd in to the other school unless we live in the catchment (people in catchment have a higher priority than siblings) and the logistics of having the two of them at different schools would be a nightmare as both myself and dh work near the bigger school and dh is a teacher so can't do pick ups or drop offs. I am starting a full time midwifery degree in september so will need wrap around care, the logisitics of driving dd to school 20 mins in the wrong direction would be a nightmare, not to mention the funny looks and attitudes i would no doubt encounter from the other mums.

Oh why is it so complicated!!

I think the teachers knowing the interests of other children at school could have introduced him to the right group of people. Everyone is good at something and I am sure there are kids who would gladly accept your DSin . I would ask the teacher about it.

I did speak to ds briefly about moving schools when he was having a really horrid time and being bullied by some of the boys, he didn't really know what he wanted, he seemed worried that there would be horrid kids at every school, which of course i can't promise him that there wont be. Although i have a strong suspicion other schools would be better at dealing with it than the one he is currently in.

Octavia - I have spoken to his teacher so many times I can't count, when i make suggestions about helping him to form friendships with a couple of the nicer boys she has said to me, they won't want to stop playing football to play with him. not very helpful

It is the attitude of the school towards it that is the main problem. They could do so much if they wanted to: buddy systems, no football days, organised activities. It is v difficult to get this up and running tho without a v committed head and staff. It doesn't sound like they can be arsed tho.

If ds is very unhappy and the other school looks good, I'd move him and move his sis when a place comes up (as said by others)

Your ds sounds very like my ds, although mine is 9.

He goes to the local primary with 60+ children in his year and they are all football mad, apart from ds who loathes it with a passion. He's already moved schools once due to dh's job relocating so I don't want to move him again.

His teacher has told me (and I go into school to help out so I have seen it myself) that he gets on with everyone and is never the odd one out when they have to get into groups in class. He has also been bullied but this has now stopped. He still plays with the girls (there is one in particular that he gets on with really well). I would really like him to have a good friend, but he's happy and loves school.

Ds2 who's 6,is a totally different animal, loves football and is very outgoing. He often comes home from school telling me he has noone to play with, but I work up at his school at lunchtimes and I have never seen him on his own.

It's probably worth having a word with his teacher and getting a fuller picture of what is going on. It might be worth taking him to the other school and seeing how he gets on before you make any decision. At ds1's old school he was also the only one who didn't like football, so it's worth checking.

Sorry I just read your last message. If the school is unwilling to do anything about it then I would definatly look at moving him. But I would definatly check the other school isn't the same before you sign him up.

yes bobble that's my main concern - what if the other school is the same? Although from looking at their website and prospectus they seem have a lot more stuff going on, school clubs, activities etc which are really lacking at his current school, an hour and a quarter is a long time to be stuck on a playground with nothing to do imo.

You really seem to want to give the other school a chance....can you not move to the catchment asap and then appeal for DD?

Jackie, check out the other school. With a much bigger year group the chances are much higher that there will be a few similar boys.

I could but school admissions have already told me i won't win any appeal unless i can prove they made an error, which of course they didn't. It's to do with infant class size rulings that mean they can't have more than 30 to a class.

If we moved sharpish and shifted ds before the end of yr 2 she would probably be top of the waiting list, but that doesn't guarantee her a place any time soon unfortunately, it's a popular school. So hard to know what to do, dd is at nursery here as well so if we moved now she would have to move nursery for the last term which wouldn't be great for her.

JackiePaper, I feel for you - I am in a very similar situation to you and have just posted a thread about that.

Especially this "what if the other school is the same? Although from looking at their website and prospectus they seem have a lot more stuff going on, school clubs, activities etc which are really lacking at his current school". I do feel that if a school does not promote a spirit of togetherness that filters down to the children.

But... how do you know the other school won't be the same - that is also my dilemna with my DS.

Yes talk to the other school and go with your gut instinct.

toomuchcaffine - it's awful when your child is unhappy, you have my sympathy :(

tbh if it was just ds i think i would move him now, but it's not just ds, i have to think of dd too and two kids at different schools 20 minutes away form each other is just not workable when both me and dh will be working full time. oh for a magic wand!

My ds is just coming up to 8 and I have posted many times about similar issues. I have no firm conclusions, but can offer the following advice:

1. I have got myself so worked up about ds and have ended up in tears many times. However, as dh pointed out to me, I got far more worked up than ds ever did. Try and take a step back from it and assess the situation as your ds sees it, not as you as a thrid party sees it.

1. Invite the offending boys around to play. I find that in a mob they ignore ds, but individually they are actually quite nice and the more they see ds on his own, the more they like him. I particularly invite the ring-leader around.

1. Ds likes building things far more than sport too, but we have encouraged him to make really cool robots and things that the other boys will think are fab (you can buy tin can robot kits etc from most toy shops). He takes them into school when he is finished and the others think what he does is great.

1. I have to say that we have worked really hard to ensure that ds plays football (which he is not overly keen on either). He is the goal keeper so not too involved in the bits he doesn't like, but included all the time. Dh has started taking him to matches to ensure that he can talk about football with the other boys. It is suh an easy way to give him an "in". Could you send him to a coaching scheme in the next hols so he would come back raring to go.

1. Our school has also instigated "no football" days because of the problems it causes. They also have a computer programme based on the sorting hat from Harry Potter which they have used at times to select the playground teams to ensure that no one is left out and one child does not always dictate the rules

I agree with GooseyLoosey, sometimes there is a need to take a step back. But as mummy's we want the best for our children and we want them to be happy so it is hard. Also it's the injustice of it all - why on earth should our kids have to change their personality to fit in - for example participating in a game they have no interest in? And why invite horrible children into your home - so they get rewarded for their bad behaviour? I worry about what message that sends to the kinder, more inclusive and well behaved children?

Great post from gooseyloosey but I have to say on balance I'd be moving him and gritting my teeth re dd fir the near future. There will be new entrants into y3 so ds wouldn't be the only new child I'm sure. Wish I'd had the courage of my convictions and moved ds

I would love it if ds's school banned football. We've tried to explain to him that playing football (which, considering he never plays apart from pe lessons at school, he is really good at) is not the same as watching it, but he won't play. In the last couple of months he has joined a lunch time hockey club and that seems to be attracting some of the boys away from football. He's also quite proud that he's the only boy at cross stitch club!!!!!!

Good advice Goosey thankyou very much, you're right I am far more worried about it than ds is i think. He is a happy confident child, and he does have some friends in the girls in his class. He was very miserable last term when the boys were hitting and pushing him and calling him names (they were saying things like 'put your hand up if ds has done a poo in his pants' and then laughing at him when he got cross with them) Thankfully that seems to have now stopped - if it hadn't i'd have moved him like a shot.

I did try to get him into football, he went to football club after school but he hated it. DH is into football but he suppoets spurs and all the kids here support west brom - so when he has tried to talk to them about football they have ridiculed him for the team he supports, he just can't win.

I also feel like toomuchcaffine, in that why should my ds have to change and try to like something he doesn't, and anyway he won't. He's quite a determined spirit and he won't change himself just to fit in with a bunch of kids who play games he doesn't enjoy. Which to be honest I am proud of, I want him to be happy and confident with who he is, but slowly I can see that he is feeling sad that there is no-one like him at school.

We must be really old fashioned or something, my ds likes trains and cars and lego, whereas the popular things at school with the boys seem to be football, wwf wrestling and call of duty on the x-box

no intelligence really doesn't come into it, maybe i am judging the other boys in the class, because there is no way i would be letting my child watch wwf wrestling or play 15 rated x-box games, but that's just a different style of parenting, nothing to do with intelligence. I am friends with several of the other mothers and no i don't feel i am superior to them in anyway whatsoever, but i do feel i have a different way of parenting i suppose.

So yes I probably shouldn't be passing judgement on these other boys, that's not my place you're right, but i'm really really not a snob! I guess i am upset and also surprised that despite being into what i would call 'typical boy things' ds is isolated from his classmates.

Y2 boys playing Call of Duty .
No, Please don't give more details, I really don't want to know.

DSs were both attending a big school with about 50 in each year intake.

DS1 used to have many friends, not into football, fell out with alpha male, increasingly had no friends after that. Moved school (to a tiny school), now has friends... now plays football like a mad maniac at breaktime every day.

DS2 is very into football, attends 2 related after school clubs, not clear if he has any friends since he fell out with the alpha male in his year.

See the pattern? Not a footie issue, not a size of school issue, but YES an alpha male issue.

I would have posted a similar thread about a year ago but I can only say that from my experience (2 boys) neither really formed "proper" friendships until they were 8. They are not footballing, rough fighty sporty kids and both found it difficult to find like minded children.

I did talk to school about DS2 as he was totally relying on his brother at playtimes and otherwise seemed particularly isolated - they started a friend diary for him and he gets a point if he plays with someone new. It has now become irrelevant as he suddenly seems to have got a burst of boyishness and has made a few friends of his own - he would still rather play on his own than do anything sporty as, in his words "I am crap at it"

There was one boy in particular who did not want him to play - I mentioned this during consultation to both his teacher and to the mother of another child (who I know is friendly with that childs mum) I also discussed compromising on what he wanted to play and that sometimes "other games can be fun too"

Is there any way the school could make a quiet corner in the playground where they could perhaps have some blackboards or lego, i'm guessing a few of the other boys are probably not playing football out of choice but out of not wanting to be left out.

I does also help to talk to other parents or children in his year im sure you will find at least one similar character there.

Whilst another school would proportionally possibly have a child on his wavelength it may be that you just drop him in to an even scarier environment - I would try talking to school again and let them know you are considering this as he is unhappy.