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my dd didnt get into any of preffered schools and was offered place in very crapy school,please help,what to do?

154 replies

helenbicari · 06/04/2011 22:42

Hi, I just received letter from school addmission and my dd not only didnt get into first choice school, she didnt get into any preffered schools and was offered placel in the worst school in our borough,Im soo upset, crying all day as i made all the effort,even moved closer to the school and missed the place by 0.018 mil. the school she got place offered is over a mile from my house and i have a sick husband, who has a back problem, one year old baby and cant drive,so i really dont know how would i manage to take her there every day,cos my husband cant help either with walking her there or looking after the baby. im going to appeal for the school, but can anyone give me some tips, how to build a strong case, cos i dont know if what i just has described will be enough. also im thinking to contact MP and if nothing helps, im gonna home school her until she gets place in a good school. do you think thats a good idea? i just dont want her to go to that school, the ofsted is 3 and i just really hate that school

OP posts:
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Rosebud05 · 08/04/2011 22:22

I'm a bit concerned about the realities of home educating with a baby and a husband who is unwell.

Is it possible to get admission to a halfway decent private school for reception at this point - don't they get booked up incredibly early? Happy to be corrected on this.

helenbicari · 08/04/2011 22:29

I know private schools are expensive and I already checked the fees which are rather expensive so is probably not an option now. Im not going to hold my daughter educationally, I actually think starting school at 4 is far too early, but that's how it is in England. In my country kids start school when they are 6 or even 7 if parents feel their child is not ready for school yet. And the education is brilliant and the kids are not held back educationally. I know you gonna argue this is England and I know it,but all Im saying is if she doesn't start school this year is not going to affect her

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Blef1974 · 08/04/2011 22:46

And what if she doesn't get into your preferred school next year? My older DD's go to a secondary school that in OFSTED reports are not scored the best and which has a reputation of being poor, and yet my 12 year old is thriving, and is already doing GCSE level work, she is in the Gifted and Talented programme, and is being prepared for IB instead of GCSE's.

My second DD has special emotional needs and I was sceptical of sending her to secondary school at all, I seriously considered home schooling, but decided to send her to a secondary school that many parents around here would describe as "crappy". My DD is thriving also. Her academic work has come on immensely since September, socially she is doing better than anyone expected, she went from being a child who would isolate herself from the rest of the class in primary school to being on school and local youth council, something I never imagined back in September.

These "crappy" schools aren't always what they seem. I am actually pleased that my DD's are going to what many consider the "crappiest" school in the area because the care and support they get there is fantastic.

Youngest DD on the other hand, who goes to an OFSTED graded 2 school is having a nightmare time!

SE13Mummy · 08/04/2011 23:36

I thought I'd share my experience of 2 years ago... I've written about it on MN before so it's nothing new.

We applied for DD to start Reception at the school where I teach (and she attended nursery although neither points have any bearing) which is approx. 650m away. We didn't get a place there or at any of the other schools we listed but were allocated one 2.8 miles away in the opposite direction at a school that had been expanded, eventually permanently although their 2010 Reception intake was be smaller because of building work and a lack of spare space on site.

The 2.8 miles is two buses from here and because of the route crossing railway lines was more convoluted than some. My husband and I are teachers, he takes the car as he teaches further afield and I walk. The school DD was allocated had no before or after school provision and no local childminders did drop-offs etc. so far away (no real surprise but we did check!). We declined this place and initially said we would be reserving the right to postpone her start in Reception until she reached Statutory School Age (Jan 2010). Meanwhile we asked to be added to the waiting lists of my school and a very unpopular but very local school.

However, as a back-up we'd also applied for a school out of borough but opposite where my husband teaches knowing that it had before and after school provision so if absolutely necessary she could travel with him (he leaves at 0630) each day. It wasn't what we wanted long-term but if it meant that we could both continue to work (part-time) we'd have done it as the other option was for me to give up work to spend 3-4 hours walking to and from the allocated school each day (prams on buses aren't terribly welcome and DD2 was 13 weeks old when DD1 started Reception). Bizarrely we were offered a place at this school; 5+ miles away and accepted it.

A few weeks later we were also offered a place at the local but unpopular school so accepted that and decined the out-of-borough place. DD1 started Reception and had a very happy term there until Christmas... by January she'd moved to the top of the waiting list for my school and a vacancy arose. She re-started at my school in the January of her Reception year. For various reasons (people moving out of London, a child's parents deciding to home-school and another being offered a place at a 'special school') other vacancies have come up too and been filled immediately.

What I'm trying to say is that this will feel terrible at the moment and it is but there is a lot of mobility in urban schools (as a teacher I have never in 10+ years started and finished the academic year with the same group of children) and chances are you will end up with something bearable in the short-term and a more preferable something in the long-term.

seeker · 09/04/2011 00:17

"Please don't think I'm being narrow minded, "

Why not - when you obviously are being?

prh47bridge · 09/04/2011 00:30

Since you are still thinking about delaying entry until next year can I remind you of a couple of points.

Firstly, your daughter must start full time education at the start of term following her fifth birthday. You can home educate her but if you do the LA may want to check that you are giving an adequate education.

Secondly, if you apply next year the council will almost certainly insist that your daughter goes straight into Y1. If the admission number is still 60, there will be 60 children admitted to Reception. Your daughter will not be one of them. If you are right and they add another class next year in Reception it won't benefit your daughter because she will be looking for a place in Y1. She will only get a place if someone leaves and there is no-one ahead of her on the waiting list.

Saracen · 09/04/2011 03:27

For goodness' sake, some of you seem to think that the OP is considering cutting off her child's right arm rather than delaying her school start by a year or two while home educating her!

"You would need to have rigorous arrangements, not only for the academic side of education but for her social and emtotional development too. In my opinion it would be harder for your daughter to join an established group at your preferred school having been at home with you for a year, than if she'd been to a 'satisfactory' school for the same time."
A four or five year old does not need "rigorous" arrangements in place to ensure she develops academically, socially and emotionally. Children grow and learn well at home too, as can be seen in their first three or four years. They do not suddenly lose the ability to learn things under their own steam when they reach school age. The OP's daughter has experience already of attending a large group (namely nursery) without her mum. School would be very ill-suited to the needs of children if they needed continuous exposure to the school environment in order to cope with it, rather than being able to rejoin it easily after a year out. Many of the home educated kids I know do go in and out of school over the years, and find it no more difficult than children who move house and change schools.

"Have you considered that your stubbornness could hold your DD back educationally? You state your DD is bright, and I'm sure she is, but you are prepared to delay her education because you can't get the exact school you want. Is that really wise? What happens if she misses out again? Will you continue to hold her out of school indefinitely?"
Home education is not delayed education. Hmm

"I'm a bit concerned about the realities of home educating with a baby and a husband who is unwell."
A great many people do it successfully. Children spend most of their time learning, whether or not they are being taught. Even parents who prefer a formal approach find that one-to-one attention means that teaching takes very little time, especially in the early years. Did you know that if a child is off school with a long-term illness, the LA is obliged to provide a minimum of just five hours of tutoring a week? Tutors say that is plenty to keep the child caught up with the rest of the class. School drop-off and pick-up alone would probably take five hours a week. And unless dad is very ill indeed, he is also on hand, part of the time anyway, to chat with his daughter about why tigers have sharp teeth and what happened to the puddle which disappeared from the front path.

"You can home educate her but if you do the LA may want to check that you are giving an adequate education."
True, but the legal status of these routine checks is dubious. The LA's only clear duty with respect to home education is to intervene if there is evidence that the education is unsatisfactory. To argue that they must carry out routine checks in order to establish whether this is the case is similar to arguing that SS must carry out routine checks on all children in the area to establish whether any of them are being mistreated.

Even if one is prepared to accept that the LA has the right to information about a child's education on a one-off basis, it's very easy to provide this information. We aren't talking about timetables and reading tests. A few pages describing the educational approach should be plenty. Parents can follow a wide variety of approaches, including child-led learning or learning through play.

helenbicari, I think you are likely to get your daughter into a school which is acceptable to you before she reaches compulsory education age. But if you don't, feel free to drop in at the home education board to chat. It sounds like you already have confidence in your ability to educate your child anyway and aren't going to be put off by those who think it is a bad idea!

ballstoit · 09/04/2011 08:01

Saracen, The op would be choosing to HE because her DD didn't get into the school she wanted her to go to. Her concerns for her DD were that she would not do as well academically and that she would be at risk of bullying at the 'crappy' school. In light of these concerns, my comments about a choice to HE were valid.

Educating a child at home when you are caring for another adult and a younger child would be a tough choice, particularly if you think it would be an effort to walk a couple of miles a day for the sake of your child's education. I agree that children can learn just as well at home, sometimes better. However, if the parent plans to educate at home only until a school place is available I think that a plan to ensure the transition is a smooth one.

If the op's DD had not mixed with a group of 30 children for a year I do think it would be hard for her to settle. If the ops concern is that her child will be singled out and bullied at the 'crappy' school, home educating just until a place at her favoured school becomes available seems a strange choice.

MrClaypole · 09/04/2011 08:18

OP

You seem to be looking ONLY at Number one 1 choice and the "crap choice" school. What about your 2nd, 3rd 4th choice schools? Would they be acceptable to you?

Suggest you put your DD's name down on the waitlist for a couple of schools which would give you a few more options should you not suceed in getting her into no1 choice school.

There must be more than 1 decent state school in Harrow surely?

PlopPlopPing · 09/04/2011 08:55

You will automatically be on the waiting lists of the schoold you chose. There tends to be a lot of movement so you will probably get one of them.

Sorry if this has been said, didn't have time to read.

Rosebud05 · 09/04/2011 09:32

Sarcen, if you read the OP you'll see that the OP was concerned about not being able to manage to walk a mile to school with baby in tow and partner who is unwell and not able to help out. That was the context I expressed concerns in.

It's very likely to be academic anyway - OP must be near top of waiting lists.

clam · 09/04/2011 10:05

She said that she was going to be unable to walk a mile to the "crappy" school, but that she would be able to manage two miles to a better one.
Hmm

ariane5 · 09/04/2011 10:10

harrow has lots of brilliant schools my dd and ds go to a great one and i know of at least ten others that are excellent so there should be a lot of choice for the op to join waiting lists for really good schools and it is true there is a lot of movement on the lists a few people i know were placed far down on the list last year for schools they wanted but stii got a place in the sep.

the good ones i know of are grimsdyke, pinner park, west lodge, longfield,pinner wood (much improved in last year despite ) to name but a few pm me op if you want any other info i have frinds who dc go to various schools round here and all are very happy Smile

MigratingCoconuts · 09/04/2011 11:06

I'm with Sarcen on this one. Whilst I do not necessarily agree with what Op is doing, it seems to me that that there are an awful lot of posters here jumping on one little detail Op said several pages back or they are not fully reading what she has written.

Op doesn't like the 'crappy' school for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the distance it is from her (she has stated this, and that she would walk further for a better school...she was trying to find ways of appealing but has backed down from this)

Op is not appealing, she has realsised this won't work

Op has put DD's name down on several waiting lists in the area but would most like DD to get into her number one choice.

Op might home ed if she has to.

Op came on here in a highly emotional state and asked for advice as to how to get into a prefferred school.

Under no circumstances will Op send DD to the 'crappy' school and has turned down that place any way.

I think this just about covers it all...can we move on and wish Op luck on the waiting list? That would be the pleasant thing to do.

Skinit · 09/04/2011 12:38

plop is wrong....nobody will be placed "automatically" on a shool waiting list....you must ask and then check regularly.

teacherwith2kids · 09/04/2011 13:29

And OP also needs to remember that a 'waiting' list is not quite that. It is a 'continued interest' list, and length of time on the list is not taken into account when offering any spare places that arise.

What IS taken into account are the original entry criteria, in strict order.

So if any children with statements of SEN naming the school apply - they will get in before her child.

If any children apply who are siblings of an existing pupil (or if a family moves into the area and an older child is admitted higher up in the school so the younger child becomes a sibling) - they will get in before her child.

If any families move into the area and live closer to the school than she is - they will get in before her child.

I just don't want the OP to be under the impression that getting onto the waiting list and just sitting there waiting for her name to 'come to the top eventually' will work. If the school becomes more and more popular, and so other families move to be close to the school, she may in fact find herself dropping lower and lower.

I was lucky when we moved to our current house, as DD benefited from the above. There was a space in Year 1 (at the very end of the summer term) for DS. DD, who was placed 42nd on the waiting list for the next year's Reception on the day we moved into town, became 2nd on the wating list because she became a sibling the moment DS started. Another family moved at the same time as us, and again the older brother started in Year 1, and the younger sister became number 1 in the waiting list because she literally lived opposite the school. Just the two girls got in from the waiting list that year. So the children who were originally top of the waiting list moved DOWN when we moved, and were not admitted. And as I said, no other child has been admitted into that year for 4 years - and this is a school in the middle of a large town. So be aware that being top of the wating list now does NOT guarantee a place come September.

Skinit · 09/04/2011 13:34

Good post teacherwith2kids....I had been number 1 on a list...then cvarious changed ocurred and I was number three..luckily we got another coveted place....I rang continuaally to check up.

PlopPlopPing · 09/04/2011 14:31

Skinit Oh really? Because when my friend and I applied last year and neither of us got our first choices we were placed automatically on the list for any school higher on our lists of preference then the place we were offered.

prh47bridge · 09/04/2011 14:34

The LA should automatically put you on the waiting list for any higher preference than the place you were offered. However, some aren't very good at this so it is always best to check.

PlopPlopPing · 09/04/2011 14:45

I don't understand why everyone has been so harsh to the OP.

AdelaofBlois · 09/04/2011 15:09

We don't hear for ages, but stories like this are really scary. Unlike so many posters here who moan about not getting number one school or who only put one on the form, you seem to have done everything that might be expected: applied to four acceptable schools, visited them to think through, and did not just decide a school was 'bad' despite what others here say, but have a variety of reasons for doing so.

I hope something works out and that a place opens up somewhere, even if you end up educating your child at home / nursery or supporting her through some tough times in a 'poorer' school for some time.

And I hope this isn't me in two weeks...

helenbicari · 09/04/2011 15:33

I think MigratingCoconuts said it all. Thanks.

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helenbicari · 09/04/2011 15:36

AdelaBlois I hope that too,cos it really came as a big surprise and disappointment and I wish you luck

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helenbicari · 09/04/2011 15:41

I will also put her on waiting list of all the schools of my choice, will keep checking on the waiting list and hopefully the place will come up and I will be able to put my mind on rest. Thanks to everyone who wished me good luck

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helenbicari · 09/04/2011 15:43

PlopPlopPing I don't understand that too

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