Any tips for primary school appeals?

[smallmotherbigheart]

This is my first time doing this, and I want to do this right. My son didn't get into any of the preferred schools that we listed? Has anyone done an appeal before?

That is only the case if the child would have been admitted but for the mistake. That is by no means clear in this case. And, although the Appeals Code says that the child should be admitted without an appeal in such cases many LAs still insist on making the parents go through an appeal.

I suppose its a possibility that the other child was admitted because of a mistake, however I can't see why they would call it an appeal in that case. I have been away with work all day and am just about to send an e-mail to both LA & school with some questions. Before I send it I'm wondering if I'm going too far by asking for the dimmensions of the all classrooms the school intend to use for reception given that they have raised the issue of space in their statement? And how they intend to split the classes, I actually already know this curtesy of my friend with a place. He says the H'mistress said they were splitting the classes into equal(ish) numbers) but am interested in what they say to me. I think I might be taking this too personally lol and seeing conspiracies

I suspect that this extra addition is actually a child that was disadvantaged in the original allocation in some way and the admission authority have made a correct decision to admit. I would doubt that there has been time to have an appeal hearing and then suddenly find they have 4 more. The 4 are the appeals arising from the first allocations in my opinion.
In some respects that makes your problem worse because they have gone from 60 to 75 by agreement and then had to admit another one. On the other hand an admission that they have already made one mistake must be something that you can use to your advantage at the appeal, in effect you are questioning all of the admission process and whether it was handled properly.
I would definately ask for the room sizes and ask for the breakdown of how the extra pupils will be accomodated.
A 30 square metre room would just about accomodate 15 pupils and would make sense but you do need to ask how the actual system will work because they are supposed to have free flow of pupils to the outside areas etc. If they split into equal numbers that would suggest circa 25 per class which would be a very tight squeeze in a 30 metre square room.
As a panel member knowing they have an extra teacher, I would be immediately questioning what the actual rooms are like and what facilities the kids would have as there is clearly the opportunity to have upto 90 without breaking the ICS Regs, so to me that info is absolutely vital.

hi, i really need some help. my daughter has been given a place at a school which is 1 mile away from my house, whereas my son who is starting nursery in september has been given a full time place at a nearer school where my daughter is currently at. my daughter didnt get a place at the nearer school because there were other children who lived closer to the school who were given priority. my problem now is that i am nearly 8 months pregnant with a baby due at the end of august, i have no family living near me and i do not have a car! i cannot drop both my children off at different schools and pick them up at the same time (that to walking) it is physically impossible! i appealed but my application was refused. i was told to put my son in the same school as my daughter but i rang them and their nursery is full. my children are too young to be walking 2 miles a day to and from school! when i appealed i actually thought my appeal would be accepted because i was desperate. i didnt do any research and didnt expect it to be as strict as it was as it is my first child and i have not had experience like this before. the appeal has been refused and i have been told to send my daughter to the school they have chosen for me. my daughter is on the waiting list for that school but she is at no. 14. my husband has now rented a house which is around the corner to the school which my son will be starting in september, because i have already appealed will i be able to appeal again and tell them that i have moved closer to the school? also as today is the 20th June 2011 will my appeal be accepted? i really dont know what i will do in september if my daughter doesn't get a place in the nearer school! please help!

Ussy - I understand you are upset but the things you mention - child at a nursery far from the school, not driving, being pregnant - are not usually the basis of a successful appeal and especially not if it's an infant class size appeal. I'm not surprised you lost your appeal, I'm afraid. You can appeal once every academic year, so you can have another go in September, but nothing is likely to change unless your circumstances have changed substantially.

If you are moving as a family to the house your husband has rented, that should help as (as you know) it is the distance from home to school that is important. However, you need to be aware that the LEA will be looking for evidence - utility bills, where child benefit is paid or similar (according to their own policies) - that you are actually living at this address. If they get any whiff that you are not living there but have just rented it to have an address near the school, they'll reject your application.

If you don't get a place for your daughter at the nearby school, the LEA will expect you to use a childminder, share the school run with a friend or do anything else to get her to the allocated school. Many people are in a similar situation.

Am in admiration for both the technical knowledge displayed and the time so cheerfully given answering questions by people on this thread.

May I pop a question in?

We have four children, three of whom are primary age. One of those is starting reception in September, and we have a place for him at our nearest and massively oversubscribed school. The other two (one infant and one junior) have been refused places at all the three schools we applied for. The one at junior level has been offered a place at a school some distance away; the other has not been offered a place at all and the LEA are meeting this week to decide what to do about a place for him. We assume that he will be given a place somewhere out of the borough but at this stage we don't know.

We are contemplating an appeal for both of them. Reading this thread has beena little sobering because we thought that the difficulties in transporting three children to and from three different schools on time would sway the appeal panel - but it seems not!

So, two questions:

• will the panel take any notice of our transport issues? It will be physically impossible to get all three to school on time without paying for extra help, and collecting them will involve having to leave one or more in after-school clubs (which we dislike for a variety of reasons). Is it even worth mentioning these issues?

• what sort of things can we emphasise about the school we want to show that it will be the best school for our children? We have made a list which includes things like Christian ethos (we work for a church and this is very important to us), intellectual ability (this is one of only two schools which won an award for their G & T provision, artistic ability (one child is gifted in this way and the school we want has an art club) and school size and ethos (one child is extremely shy and hates places with lots of people and the school we want is both small and boasts of its individual care of pupils). Will any of these carry any weight or do we need to resign ourselves to an as-yet unformulated Plan B?

Should say we have just moved to the area which is why we are in this situation.

Hello Lady Peter Wimsey. I give my time willingly but need to get to bed, so this will necessarily be quick (but not necessarily brief, as little time for editing).

Transport difficulties aren't usually a factor in the panel's decision. LEAs expect parents to use childminders or before and after school clubs or share the school run with a friend to get the chidlren to school on time and many people do exactly that. By all means mention your transport problems but it won't be this (I expect) that carries any appeal.

You need to emphasise all the things that your children need that the preferred school can offer. All the things you mention would be relevant, but make sure you make the connection between the child's need and the school's provision, rather than just make statements about your child. My one reservation is about "intellectual ability" - primary schools can't select by academic ability and the LEA will no doubt be arguing that all its schools can cater for pupils at all points on the spectrum of academic ability. So, saying anything on the lines of "my child needs to go to this school because s/he is academically able" won't get you very far but if you can make a more specific connection between your child's needs and aspects of the g&t provision at this school which aren't available at the allocated school, that may be more persuasive. Another argument you might want to use - if it applies - is the value to your children in going to a local school, to enable them to make new friends in this new location.

I guess you've seen the general advice about infant class size appeals. If your preferred school admits in multiples of 30, you will only win the appeal for the middle child if there has been some error that has deprived them of a place or the admissions procedure was demonstrably unfair. Your appeal for the older child, though, will be decided on the balance of prejudice (ie disadvantage) between your child and the school. If you win that appeal, then the middle child will (presumably, unless the school has very odd admissions criteria) move up the waiting list as a sibling.

Don't assume - although it is possible - that your middle child will be offered a place out of the borough. The LEA has some powers to allocate him a place at a local school as an additional pupil if there really is no other school with a place for him.

In short, you do need to think about a Plan B, but I think you've got a fair chance of winning an appeal for your older child and that may change the whole situation.

They will consider you already have a child starting at that school in September which may benefit the acceptance of a child into a junior class where numbers are less prohibitive. I assume its a primary school?
They may feel that the problem of transport can be overcome simply by the provision of free transport to the other children? You would need to check where you stand with provision and distance. It is reasonable to expect a child to travel 45 minutes each way if under 11.
Apealing with transport as the main issue is always difficult.
If the school is a C of E school have you read through the Sias report for inspiration?

thanks everyone, i will have to change my daughter's address as she is on a waiting list and then hope she gets moved up as we are moving nearer the school. i have been told i can appeal again in september and will hopefully be more prepared.

LadyPeterWimsey,
A lot is going to depend on the outcome of the LA deciding what to do with your infant age child. There are mechanisms in place (the in year fair access protocol) to allocate the child to the same school as the reception age child even if the school is full and it is subject to infant class size regs, if they so decide. Having said that it is not usual to invoke that, though it is also unusual for the LA to be having a meeting to decide where to place your child, it is usually just there is a place at that school.
If by any remote chance the LA did place your infant age child in the same school, then I would immediately appeal for the junior school place in the same school. I say this because the LA must know about the other child and must have taken some consideration of it in deciding what to do with the infant child. Any panel is going to hear that the LA made a decision to place the infant pupil in the school and is then going to be rather tempted to say well you can have the junior age child as well.
However if they do not allocate your child to the local school then I am afraid it is Plan B, which must be having a long conversation with the LA about which school can take all three of your children. None of your reasons will have much substance in terms of deciding which school, it will be which school has places or places for two of the three which you can reasonably get to. Reasonably is anything within an hours journey in legal parlance.

Thank you so much for your advice, all - so much helpful information here. We are encouraged to appeal although not overly-hopeful, and certainly won't be relying on the transport argument! Interesting to hear about the in-year access protocol, the Sias report and being able to argue that my children need a local school to help them make new friends. Will follow up all those things.

I should have explained that the papers we have been sent (by the Diocese as it is a CofE school) have said that the appeal for the infant school place will not be under infant class size regs. I don't know if that helps or hinders.

What we are trying to do now is to find supporting evidence for our case - letters from previous school re personality issues, letter from previous art teacher re ability and benefit of art provision, that sort of thing. We'd be grateful for any ideas as to how we can 'make a more specific connection between your child's needs and aspects of the g&t provision at this school which aren't available at the allocated school' (thanks for this idea, PanelMember) - where can we find out about the specifics of the schools' G&T provision?

It helps you a great deal that the infant appeal is not under ICS rules, because you will be arguing on the basis of prejudice (mentioned in my earlier post) rather than having to pinpoint some error or procedural unfairness. You need to set out for the appeal panel all the elements of prejudice that you child might face if not admitted to the school. The panel then has to balance that against the prejudice to the school of admitting another pupil.

As you know that the school has won some sort of award for its g&t provision, I imagined that you already had details of that provision. I'm a little perplexed (forgive me if I have misunderstood) that you are planning to argue for the school on the basis of its g&t provision without knowing what that entails. I guess you can get the school's g&t policy from its website or from the school office.

As I said before, you need (in my view) to tread very carefully here. Parents often argue at appeal along the lines of "my child is academically able and therefore needs a place at this [high-performing] school". These arguments don't usually succeed: in an ICS case, the panel is looking to see whether its admission criteria (which never mention academic ability) have been correctly applied and in other cases the fact that a child is academically able doesn't necessarily mean that they will suffer prejudice if not admitted to the school. As far as I can see, if you want to mention your child's intellectual ability, the only way it could be brought within the scope of what the panel is looking for - ie prejudice - is by identifying a need arising out of that ability which the school is better-placed than other schools to meet.

I am not trying to put words into your mouth, but the argument about needing a nearby school to make friends in a new area is one that is often made at appeal. It's certainly relevant to the question of prejudice.

As a post-script: The 'local school' argument obviously becomes weaker if the allocated school is also close to home. As Admission says, a journey to school of up to an hour is held to be reasonable.

Thank you, PanelMember. Re G&T I just meant that we only know that the school is one of a very few who hold an award for this. We need to get hold of both the schools' policies and see if there are differences significant enough to try to use this criteria. My guess is that there probably won't be - on paper at least. I guess I was wondering if there is any other way of assessing the specifics of what they provide other than through their paperwork, but I can't think how!

In terms of friendships, the only children our children have met already go to the school we are appealing to - one family, and most of the children they met attending the church's holiday club (the one connected with the school) during half term. It seems a little flimsy but since this is the only school with which we have any connections, we may give it a go. We are in a city, so none of the schools are very far from each other.

It is really helpful to think of it in terms of prejudice - to our children and to the school. Thanks for all your help in clarifying our thoughts.

I wanted to update on my appeal and to offer my heartfelt thanks to all those who commented and offered assistance. Special thanks to prh47bridge who kindly looked and commented on several documents I was hoping to rely on.

The update is that today we WON our appeal!!!! The actual appeal was pretty anti-climactic if I'm honest. I was soooooo prepared, I had a long list of questions colour coded to address firstly the error element of the appeal, secondly the application/appeal process and thirdly questions that I hoped would help me firm up my prejudice argument. Plus additional things I planned to say in addition to the long statement (and supporting information) I had already submitted. I didn't get to say much at all, in fact the whole thing lasted less than 10 mins, I didn't have the chance to ask any of my prepared questions. The panel asked a couple of questions and then adjourned for a few minutes (apparently this is unusual?), called us back into the room and upheld our appeal, they went further than that though, the chair thanked us for the comprehensive, clear, well argued and well set out appeal submission we had made (again, big thanks for all the assistance) and said that on the basis of our arguments they were upholding all appeals.

So, ultimately a positive result! However I have real concerns with the admission of the additional pupil. I had a vague response from the LA to my queries about how an extra child was placed. They informed me that originally there were five appeals but one was withdrawn as the school decided to offer and extra place (there was definitely no mention of an error having been made, just that the school had allocated an extra place). This is where I come really unstuck, having been told by the school on several occasions that they double & triple check everything before making offers if there was an extra place to be had, why did DS not get it being as he was top of the waiting list from 1 day after the offers were made??? I know several parents from the school and there has been the suggestion that the additional child is somehow connected to one of the governors. This has really left a sour taste in my mouth, not only have my OH & I had months of stress and time spent putting a case together but it makes me question the moral character of the school I have fought so hard to get DS into. Am I over-reacting? The whole process has been personally very difficult for me, my OH tells me to leave it alone saying ?we?ve got the place, leave it be Musey? but I can?t help it the questions are dancing in my mind. My mom always used to say ?if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck, you?ll tend to find that it is a duck! Well this walks, sounds & looks like a duck to me IYGWIM? I thought I?d post on here because I think those going through or with experience in this type of thing may understand where I?m coming from. Do I leave it alone and be grateful DS has his place? Or doing I keep poking at it?

Thanks for listening and again thanks for the help.

My inclination is to say quit now as you will only drive yourself to distraction over it and you are unlikely to get any satisfaction.
What is not well advertised is that if the panel do agree that the admission code is not being kept too rather than an honest mistake being made that the panel is required to report it to the school adjudicator. So it is possible that this may happen in this case.
There is also something else that does happen and that is the Chair of the panel can write to the admission authority when they feel that something wrong has taken place.
You are never going to know about either of these happening, but certainly sometimes it does get things sorted out.

hi
my son was not accepted into a school it is a catholic school and i feel strongly that i want him to be a part of this. yes it is a "good school" but it has qualities i feel he will need when he is older. it runs special requirement programmes for speech language reading but most importantly anger management.
my sons actual father was discovered to be a section 1 offender and one day he will obviously need to deal wth this and i feel that the religious side and the educational side of this school will help with this .
how do i comunicate this at my appeal

All panels have to abide by confidentiality of submissions from parents, so i think that you need to explain why this a school that you believe will benefit your son in some detail, so that the panel understand the significance of the school ethos.
Of course if the appeal is classed as an infant class size regs then you can only win a place by proving that there was a mistake in the admission process thats topped your child getting a place.

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HI Everyone
Sorry to be on here so late tonight. We have our appeal tomorrow. My DD is going into reception in Sept, she has her 3rd choice school, is on 2nd Place for her 2nd Choice School and on 4th for her 1st place.

Our 1st place is .24metres from our house, the 3rd is 4.1 miles. The appeal is not based on ICS due to the way the school actually schools the children. They teach vertically and horizontally and this year there was an admission of 35. However they have already made one error in admission and have had to admit one more child (over the 35), I have also found out that they have admitted a sibling out of catchment (which comes below children in designated catchment), but this is not stated on the admission form. However it clearly shows from the map that the house is out of catchment.

I have been and am driving myself insane and am trying to fine tune our appeal.

The admissions authority argument:
The school can take 260 (Infant and Junior) it will have 255 in Sept 11
Last year it took in a bulge year (60 instead of 35), however there are only currently 52 places filled out of the 60 allocated. With this bulge,they were provided with additional teaching staff and a new classroom was built to accommodate.

The admission authority say they are trying to reduce the number back to the original admission number of 35 children. The planning consent for the additional classroom space to support these children made it clear that a condition of the plannning consent being agreed was that the overall number of children on the roll should not exceed 260 pupils.

The school and governers do not to admit over the 35 (now 36) this year, because according to the school admissions code if they admit over the original number for 3 years in a row they have to always admit that higher number. The governer of the school sent out a letter to parents of existing children at the school telling them that they would not allow additional children to come to the school and the words were, "we will do all in our power to stop additional children" - this was prior to the 36th child being admitted.

The basis of their argument is on quality of education, they claim the pupil/teacher ratio is already above average, but when we questioned this at the open day, the head teacher told me that this is due to how they educate and teach in groups and isn't a problem. It is an open plan school and they teach in teams and have developed distinctive team approaches to learning within these spaces. When we asked about noise during the open day we were told it wasn't an issue to learning and wasn't an issue whilst we were there (with the additional children in situ and without the additional classroom)

Later in the document, it states that a NET capacity assessment used in setting the PAN was carried out in JAN 2006 (5 years ago!) and resulted in an indicated admission number of 30. using the maximum workplace number of 249( but states 260 earlier in the document) the school can increase to an indicated published number of 35.They claim adding 36 students to the equation would exceed the range of workplaces being available to the school and would exceed the net capacity in the classroom areas. (yet they will not be at full capacity as they didnot admit the full 60 last year)

In summary it is citing that further places cannot be allocated as to do so would prejudice the provision of further education and use of resources. However this contradicts an earlier statement which explains that the school performs well (last ofsted outstanding) in spite of having a higher than average pupil to teacher ratio.

We have a number of other elements of our appeal. but my goal here is to prove

1. unfair admissions and error
2. There is clearly space at the school in reception and Y1 ( and the years are schooled together)
3. Contradictory statements in their argument
4. the disadvantage to my child if she did not go there and to our family

Really would be great if anyone could provide some last minute advice.... :-)

Taking your points in order...

I am unclear what you think is unfair about their admissions. It is also unclear whether there has been an error that has denied your daughter a place. It is not enough to show they have made a mistake. You have to show that your daughter would have been admitted if they hadn't made a mistake. If you live in catchment and your concern is around the out of catchment admission, are you sure this was a sibling who was admitted incorrectly? Is it possible this child is looked after or has special medical needs which place him or her in a higher category than your daughter? If a mistake has been made which has denied your daughter a place that is a strong case for an appeal.

The fact they are below capacity helps you. However, if any years are currently below PAN the panel will have to consider what happens if all years fill up to the admission number.

I don't think a panel would view the statement that further admissions would cause prejudice contradicts the statement that the school performs well. Further admissions will worsen the pupil to teacher ratio which could damage the school's performance. The question is how great that prejudice will be and whether it outweighs the prejudice to your daughter through not being admitted.

You haven't said how your daughter will be disadvantaged by not going to this school. You also haven't said how your familiy will be disadvantaged but that is unlikely to be relevant, I'm afraid. What matters is prejudice to your daughter. Unless a mistake has been made and your daughter should have been admitted, the strength of your argument for prejudice to your daughter will be crucial to the success of your appeal.

Good luck.

Hi, could i ask for some advice please....

My DD's appeal is next week. It is for year 4. The admission authoritys case states that the school can take 420 (60 in each year group). They currently have 424,
60 in Y4,
61 in Y5

63 in Y6

I am going to be saying that i would be looking for DD to start in Y5 in Sept, as they have left my appeal date this late. It was way over the 30 school days it should have been!
They can clearly take the extra child in that year, as they have one now so the class would be 61 again, but would it be also be okay to say that as the 63 in Y6 will have left then they will then have the 3 extra spaces available because they can easily admit 424.

Any advice would be really helpful :)

The fact that the current Y6 will have left doesn't create 3 extra spaces as such. The school's capacity is 420 and they will, presumably, have 421 children so they will still be over capacity. You could, of course, make the point that they will be less over capacity than they are at the moment. The other interesting question is what is the calculated capacity. This should be a range, with the lower figure being 90% of the top of the range. It could, for example, be 414 to 460. The net capacity of 420 will be somewhere in this range. If it is near the bottom of the range as per my example that is worth bringing up because it helps you. Ask the admission authority for this information before the hearing. You don't want to bring it up if the net capacity is at the top of the calculated range.

In the hearing you should ask what problems have been caused by being over PAN in Y5 and Y6. The likely answer is that they have coped, which suggests they can cope again.

I am helping my daughter with an appeal and would appreciate some advice. It is a Reception year appeal and both Reception classes are 30. The LA say they can?t take any more children without employing another teacher. We are appealing under the grounds that we were not informed or did not receive any documentation of how the admission criteria worked. We do know now that this is available on the internet along with many other documents guidance & policies. If we had received this admission criteria we would have appealed under health grounds due to Psychological reasons and have some a GP letter to support this. Do we have sufficient grounds?