Any tips for primary school appeals?

[smallmotherbigheart]

This is my first time doing this, and I want to do this right. My son didn't get into any of the preferred schools that we listed? Has anyone done an appeal before?

I'm afraid not. Provided the LA makes the information available the onus is on you to check it.

As the Reception classes already have 30 children this will be an infant class size appeal. That means you need to show that the LA has made a mistake in order to win. From the information you have posted it does not appear that the LA has done anything wrong. You may strike it lucky and get a sympathetic panel who will be prepared to admit your daughter even if the rules say they shouldn't but that is a long shot.

dc123 - I would be very interested in what admission and prh47bridge think about this one. My view - which is very much shaped by what happens in my LEA - is that we have posters in all sorts of places (GP surgeries, libraries, bus stops, on the backs of buses) advertising the publication of the school admissions booklet and the deadline for applying for places. The "I didn't know how to apply" argument is therefore a weak one.

The difficulty here is that the panel has to review whether the LEA took the right decision with the information available to it at the time. In an infant class size case, it can allow your appeal only if a mistake has been made (and nothing you mention suggests that it has), the admission arrangements do not comply with the admissions code (but there is no evidence of that here) or the decision was one that no reasonable LEA would have made (again, no evidence of that here).

I can see no basis here on which you could win your appeal. Even if the panel think that the LEA has not done enough to publicise the admissions arraangements, they will very likely take the view that - especially if you believed there were medical reasons why the child should have priority for a place - you should have been more proactive in doing your own research (and I have to say, at the risk of being controversial, that if you're familiar enough with the internet to be on Mumsnet I wonder why you didn't check out the LEA's website).

The best you can hope for, I think, is that the LEA will take your evidence of the child's psychological problems and refer it to its medical/social needs scrutiny panel. If the medical/social needs scrutiny panel agrees that the child should have been given priority under that heading, the child will move to the top of the waiting list, but they won't immediately get a place because there are no grounds here to allow the appeal.

Crossed posts with prh47bridge.

I have just had my appeal for a nursery for my daughter. I listed everything I needed to mention as when nervous I forget stuff. This was a class size appeal, and I think it went ok, the only thing is I have had a letter back saying the panel could not come to a decision on my appeal on the information presented to them at my hearing, specifically by the school. Now they are saying they will need to reconvene and if I have any further information I think would be helpful to my case to send it to them. I rang the number on the letter to ask what information they needed from the school but they said they would let me know what information they wanted when they get the answer from the school. I think this is all very strange as I thought everything needed to be presented at the first hearing, I have not heard of a second hearing in any other cases I have read about. Has anyone else been in this situation?

Sorry I meant to say reception class on my last post, not nursery!!!

As it is a class size appeal you need to show that a mistake has been made and that your daughter should have been admitted. It is difficult to be sure but it sounds to me like the panel may think that there has been a mistake but need more information from the school to figure out if your daughter would have been admitted if they had got it right.

I hope the delay is a good thing.I know another family have had the exact same letter do you think this means there may have been a problem with the whole process or will they not give yes or no answers to anyone until they find out all the facts.

i have one more question if that is ok? can a child be given a place at a school due to the problems with a sibling already at that school because I am not sure if a child should be accepted on there own credentials.

If the panel is doing this right, it sounds like there has been a problem with the process and they are trying to figure out which children should have been admitted. I am, of course, guessing so I may be completely wrong but that seems the most likely explanation.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by your second question but the basic principle with infant class size appeals is that you will only win if there has been a mistake and your child would have been admitted but for the mistake. A sibling is only relevant if they were overlooked during the admissions round resulting in the younger child being placed in the wrong category.

I would agree with PRH that the only reasonable explanation for the panel not making decisions is that somewhere in the process something has been said that has led the panel to believe that there was an error in the admission process. If that is the case they will have requested that the LA go back and come up with a revised list of who should have been offered a place if the admission process had been correctly administered. That sounds easy but actually may be very complicated and take time to do depending on exactly what has gone wrong.
With it being an ICS case that does not necessarily mean that all those that have been disadvantage will be given a place. So if for instance there were 30 available places and only one was disadvantaged then I would expect the panel to admit that child and run with a class of 31 for the next year. But if there were 10 who should have been admitted, expecting a class of 40 to function in a class designed for 30 is both unrealistic and not acceptable. The panel will have to decide what they then can and cannot do in conjunction with the LA and school. It could be none would be admitted or it could be that all 10 could be admitted if the school happened to have a spare classroom and the LA funded the extra teacher.
I am however slightly concerned by the comments about any extra information that you may want to submit. I would be tempted to press the admission office for information on exactly what has gone wrong to do with the school, as you could be being disadvantaged if some appealants know what the issue is and others like you do not know. Obviously during the personal part of the hearing one of the appealants has raised something that has caused this decision and it must have been somebody after your personal hearing, otherwise they would have adjourned all the appeals.

Admission experts advice please. Have ICS reception appeal coming up for a CofE school.

Complicated appeal involving, unclear admissions criteria, issues around governors enquiry form deadlines, sibling at the school already and no provision for medical need in the admissions criteria.

Completed our paperwork and outlined all of the above as clearly as we could. Heard last week our appeal is the only one and will be held in the local church.

Received school response to our appeal today and am a tad shocked.

No mention of prejudice to the school in admitting another child over the 30 class size, by way of pan, roll, size, facilities or resources. Just takes some of our raised issues and argues against them, including a statement from the vicar at the church our appeal will be heard in.

More concerning a statement of part of the conversation we had with Head of school following placement results being public. Offered to us as a 'can l help support you' come into my office kind of way, started with "anything l say in this room cannot be used as part of your appeal if you have one". In the school response they claim we are misleading the panel in detailing why the offered school is not right for our child as we have already declined the place, and they know that as a result of the conversation with the Head on X date.

l am miffed they can refer to our comments but we clearly were instructed by the Head not to use her's. Also do not like in insinuation we are misleading the panel - we did include a section in the appeal detailing why we declined our allocation and why it was not suitable for our child, and the impact on the sibling and reasons why our first choice school is the right school for our youngest and older sibling as well.

Do we prepare our responses to the above ready for the appeal day and just ingore the lack of school prejudice arguments ?

The school's written submission fails to meet the required standards, to say the least. If the panel wants to play it by the book they should admit your child because the school has not made any case to refuse admission. Realistically that is unlikely to happen but you should certainly point out that the school has broken the appeals code in spades with its evidence to the appeal and that you have been seriously disadvantaged as a result as you have not been given a proper chance to prepare your case. If you lose your case I would expect a reference to the Local Government Ombudsman to result in a fresh appeal on those grounds alone.

The fact that the school feels it can get away with a case like this suggests that they have used the same appeal panel for so long that they are no longer truly independent. Whilst you should assume that they are independent, you should watch for any evidence that they are not as that would also be of interest to the LGO. I would also check who the clerk is carefully. The clerk must be independent, not someone who works for or is associated with the school.

If the school fails to make out a case for prejudice at the appeal you should point this out. Under the appeals code the panel is required to admit your child if the school fails to show prejudice. Remind them of that.

Since they have mentioned the conversation you have had with the Head I would say that the "anything I say in this room" deal is off and you are now free to use anything from that conversation that helps you. I would point out forcefully to the panel that there is absolutely no logic in saying that the fact you have declined the place at the offered school means your statement as to why it is not right for your child is wrong. And they should not be accusing you of misleading the panel - more for the LGO to chew over.

Thankyou prh47bridge for your response.

Another concern - one of the issues l raised concerned was the way they processed extra information after the closing date for submissions in a way not acknowledged in any published document either their own or the LA's - their response was to produce a photocopy of the signing in sheet for the open days, including all personal information (not needed by me) to prove a) l did not go (well l already have a sibling at the school so why would I ?) and b) that those present could ask questions regarding such process issues and know the answer.

Having to ask the right question to get the right answer requires you know or have an understanding that they stray into what l have referred to as a 'grey area' non-defined in the admissions process. Surely that is not a defence for making this information available in a written form readily to all prospective parents?

It gets worse. It is completely unacceptable for the school to require parents to attend an open day in order to find out that they need to provide additional information. Any supplementary form must be available from the LA (Admissions Code para 1.77). Appendix 4 paragraph 13e of the Code states that the school must tell the LA if they have adopted a supplementary form and how that form can be obtained. The form must appear on the LA's website and the school's website. They must also be available in hard copy from the LA.

This school appears to have no idea how to run admissions.

Sorry i was not clear - the extra info form is available freely, but it states on it in bold it must be completed and returned at the time of application to be considered in the main admissions round. By that l would interpret the 25th Jan the deadline for applications. What I am concerned about is what the definition of the end of the 'main admissions process' is - is it when the 30 offers for places are made or filled after the non-acceptances are processed ?

However it seems they freely take the forms after the closing date and add them to original applications. In this case two of them in a period of time between 'allocation day' and the deadline for the 30 offered places to be accepted. I only know this because one of the two told me and l asked the school whether this was accepted as part of their process. I also doubt whether the forms cover the period they are required to eg: once per month in the 12 months prior to application.

My issue with it is it not being openingly communicated, in either the LA booklet, school prospectus or in writing to all parents on the waiting list informing them they are open to do the same. It just does not strike me as in the spirit of the schools admission code.

Lastly l am trying to do some digging on who the panel are, in particular the clerk (he is listed as working for the local LA's democratic services dept ?), but how can l find out whether they have been used by the school/diocese before and therefore question their independence ? I don't think the school have had many appeals at all. many thanks again

The main admissions round ends when offers are made. There is no problem in them taking suppliementary forms after offers are made and taking those into account when sorting the waiting list. That is entirely within both the letter and the spirit of the Admissions Code. If you think about it, the parents concerned could withdraw their original application and then submit a new application with a supplementary form. There would be absolutely no problem with that and their child would then be in the same position on the waiting list as they are at the moment. If you submitted your supplementary form at the time of your original application you have not been disadvantaged. Equally if you didn't, you are free to submit it at any time.

As the clerk works for the LA he is independent so there is no problem there.

It is likely that any appeal panel has been used by the school and/or diocese before. That isn't a problem. It only becomes a problem when the panel fails to act independently.

Actually, as the clerk comes from the LA there is a good chance they have contracted out the whole appeals process to the LA. That is good as it means you should get a panel who understand that the school's case as presented is wildly inadequate.

Difficult to not suggest to you that you write to the LGO now as the school as the admission authority seem to be getting it so wrong but to be serious that is not sensible as you need to go through the appeal process before you can go to the LGO.
You will need to carefully bring your different strands of issues over this admission process together, so that the panel have no doubt over the lack of precision in the schools dealings on this. From what you have said a key part of that submission should be that the school called for supplementary forms to be completed and in by the 25th Jan, when you know that they accepted them after this date. There is no question that this means that those that did not supply the forms by the due date of 25th Jan should not have been given any priority in terms of faith and must only be considered on presumably distance criteria. The idea that they could supply them after the allocation of places is just not appropriate. The question then becomes whether if those forms had been processed correctly you would have been offered a place.
One area that I think you also need to probe from previous experience is that the school is the admission authority and as such the decision of putting all the applicants in appropriate order is carried out by a panel of the Governing Body. Given the casual nature of the above, I suspect that the person who did it was the vicar or the Chair of Governors. Whilst that does not get you a place it raises with the panel plenty of questions to answer about all the rest of the process.
This appeal is an ICS Regs appeal, so the school only has to show that qualifying measures would be necessary and what they are. There should be in the schools documentation a short paragraph saying this is an ICS Regs appeal and that the qualifying measure would be an extra teacher. If it does not say this, whilst it is slightly naughty I would be very tempted not to say anything about it and let them present their case. The school goes first and then it is for you to ask the school about the case presented (which should eb about ICS and how full the school is, not a rebuttal of your case). My temptation is to ask as the first question "is that all your case" and when they say yes, ask the panel whether you should go any further in asking questions as the school have clearly not shown any prejudice to the school nor have they proved ICS prejudice. That might have the Clerk spluttering. I suspect you will end up taking the appeal all the way through but it will look rather good in the notes that the LGO see, if you involve them, that the school could not even do that right.
I think that you also need to make a note of the main things that are said by the panel and by the clerk as well as any other outrageous remarks by the school. You might need them later.

Thanks admission - have found a paragraph, no mention of ICS regs appeal in any of the paperwork at all. But does have comment about the limit of 30 for infant classes and that their budget allocation has been calculated on this basis. To be instructed to take one more pupil would mean this limit is exceeded and a second teacher would need to be employed, the school does not have the resources for an extra teacher.

Is this one paragraph without mentioning ICS regs enough of a presentation of prejudice to the school ?

Also do the schools in cases like this not get an academic year's grace before they have to have a 2nd teacher in post ? so because of the natural movement in classes they are usually back below the 30 limit before the academic year end anyway.

Have my pack of index cards ready to note the things l want to say on the day and a list of questions to ask, good to know the school goes first and your suggested 1st question thankyou.

Just to be clear, I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that parents supplying supplementary forms after offers were issued only affected their position on the waiting list. If offers were made on the basis of supplementary forms that had not been submitted that is clearly wrong.

It is true that any pupil admitted as the result of an appeal is an excepted pupil for a year, so the school does not need a second teacher immediately. However, appeal panels are specifically instructed that they may not admit a child on the basis that natural movement will bring the class back down to 30. Regardless of how unrealistic it may be, they have to assume that the school will still be over the infant class size limit.

I think that their quoted sentence just about covers ICS Regs but it should really state that it is an ICS case.
I think however you still need to ask the school to confirm this is their case and that the panel do believe that it is an infant class size case. If the Clerk and Chair of the Panel are any good they will make sure that they ask the school that but there is no reason why you should not ask it before the panel get to their questions.
I think you need to prepare on the basis that it is ICS regs case and that you have to prove that the school made mistakes in their admission process that disadvantaged your child such that if they had done it correctly your child would have been offered a place in the first round of admission allocations. That is in effect the only way to win an ICS Regs case

It's my school appeal in a few days and i am having a nightmare trying to find out any information from the Admissions Authority. They refuse to answer any of my questions and keep passing me on to different people!

They have put false information on their statement of case, stating that there are 60 children in each year group, but the Edubase website says there are 424 in total. 4 more than they claim.

They have sent my original application back with their case but it is for my other daughter. The address i put on it to say that i had moved has been doctored, so it says the same as my other address.

My argument is going to be that they have had higher than 60 in each year for the past 4 years so they are able to accomodate another child without it being too much of an issue. The school results have also improved showing the extra children haven't been affected.

My question is if the legal class size for 30 children is 49m². The schools classrooms are between 55-63m² but i can't find any information on the rest of the areas. Can i therefore use this in my case?

Please help

Thank you

To take your points in order:

The authority is required to answer any reasonable questions you ask to help you prepare for your appeal. If they don't do so and you lose your appeal that could be grounds for referring the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman.

The figures for pupil numbers on the Edubase website are from January 2010. That doesn't necessarily mean the statement of case is correct but it is more likely to be correct than Edubase.

If they have sent the wrong application form with their case that is a serious error, as is doctoring the form. Again, that is possible grounds for a referral to the LGO.

If this is an appeal for Reception the fact that they have had more than 60 children for the last 4 years is not relevant, nor is the size of the classrooms. Your appeal will be an infant class size case which means you should only win if you can show that the authority made a mistake in processing your application and your daughter would have been admitted if they had got it right. If there was no mistake your appeal should fail, I'm afraid.

If you are appealing for Y3 or later that would be a different matter as infant class size rules no longer apply. In that case the points you raise could be relevant.

Thank you for your reply.

Sorry, I should have said the appeal is for year 4.

After looking at Edubase I rang the Admissions Authority to confirm how many pupils are at the school and they said 425. Thats 5 more than the statement of case claims.

I can't find out the schools calculated capacity as this is one of the questions i have repeatedly e-mailed and rang the Admission Authority about.

I have no idea what to base my case on because i can't get hold of any information.

As it is for Y4 then I would certainly raise the points about previous years having more than 60 and the sizes of the classrooms.

The LA's inability to get the number of pupils at the school right and failure to respond to a simple question on calculated capacity are worrying.

You should base your case on the reasons your daughter will benefit from going to this school. Look for things this school has which are missing from your daughter's current school and which will be of benefit to her. Tell the panel why this is the only school for her. You need positive reasons why she needs to go to this school. Don't be negative about her current school and try to avoid things like child care and transport difficulties as the panel can't take those into account.

Why do you want your daughter to go to this school?