Any tips for primary school appeals?

[smallmotherbigheart]

This is my first time doing this, and I want to do this right. My son didn't get into any of the preferred schools that we listed? Has anyone done an appeal before?

Hi. There are a lot of questions here.

How many appeals are you submitting? Are they all infant class size appeals?

Infant class size appeals have been discussed on several other threads, which you ought to read. The bottom line is that you should win only if you can show that the LEA made a mistake or their decision not to admit was so unreasonable that it can be regarded as irrational and one that no other LEA would have made.

The other question is what (if anything) the schools' oversubscription criteria say about social/medical need and whether they are willing to look at parents' medical needs and well as pupils'. The admissions code allows LEAs to do so, but local practice varies.

How much information about your mental health problems did you provide with the original application? If you did not mention them (and I can understand why you might be reticent about doing so), the LEA cannot be blamed for not taking them into account when deciding on your application. The appeal panel cannot substitute the decision which the LEA might have made, had it had the information.

However, I think you can still construct a case here. You will need (in my view) more than your DLA award notice. The best thing would be a letter from your psychiatrist, social worker or other professional which confirms what you have said here about your inability to cope with difficult journeys and your child's need to be at a local school to overcome the risk of isolation. Presumably too it would help your child to be at a nearby school because friends' parents (say) could help with the school run if you were unwell.

This still leaves the problem of how high the bar is set in infant class size appeals - you would have to convince the panel that no reasonable LEA would expect you to trek across town to get your children to school. This is exactly the situation that many parents face, so you have to explain why you and your child would be particularly badly affected. You could mention that you are on 8 waiting lists as evidence that you are not being picky and are willing to consider any local school that meets your and your child's needs.

Your odds of winning the appeal increase if it is not an infant class size appeal. Then, you need to argue that the prejudice (ie disadvantage) to your child of not attending the school is greater than the prejudice to the school of admitting another pupil.

Hi, I am reading through all the treads and getting very disheartened, I have never been in this situation before and found mumsnet whilst trying to organise what to say at my appeal next week. I am appealing as my son did not get offered either of the two schools I applied for. On the second round I have put the catchment area school, all be it not a good school, but my problem is I have been offered a school 9 miles away due to it being the next closes school avaliable. I will struggle to get him there, and have another son who starts nursery in the opposite direction in Sept as well...can anyone give me any advise as to how I can tackle the appeal panel with this situation..

To put it very bluntly, you have done your child no favours at all by only applying for two schools. Were there really no other schools that you could have applied for?

When a child doesn't get a place at any of the preferred schools, the LEA will allocate a place at the nearest school with vacancies. This might well have been your catchment school if you had applied for it, but as it is, it's a school 9 miles away.

If this is an infant class size appeal (see above) you will win only if there's been a mistake. By the sound of it, the LEA have done things by the book and I doubt you'll persuade the panel to admit your child. If it isn't an ICS appeal you have more scope for arguing your case but, even then, transport difficulties or the distance between school and another child's nursery aren't usually winning grounds for appeal.

Do your best at the appeal, but your best option now is to get your child onto waiting lists for other nearby schools and investigate what help the LEA will give you with transport costs.

Hi, thanks for your advice. We are appealing for 3 of the nearest 4 (missing out the catholic one, as, not being catholic, we didn't think we had much chance with the special appeals procedure they have). We know she is number one on the waiting list for the nearest school, so we are focusing our efforts on that one.

I spoke to a lady at the admissions office by phone, and she said that, while there is no way to submit information about the parents health in the orginal application, it will be considered at appeal, which is why I'm giving it a go.

I am pretty sure (from what I have read) that the schools have all admitted the maximum amount (ie 30 or 60), so I understand it will be more difficult. However, I am encouraged by the fact that there are so many "extra" children in our town, which is accepted as a separate entity by most people -it is much nearer to two other cities (Gateshead and Newcastle) but somehow is under Sunderland's administration. I have spoken to several knowledgeable people in an informal capacity, who have indicated that it is a massive problem, and that, at the very minimum, a full extra class and expansions of others will have to happen, and we only have a total population of 50,000 or so, with 16 primary schools and four secondary. Even if these things aren't at our nearest school, they may free up places.

Your chances at appeal don't depend on where you are on the waiting list, so don't feel that you don't stand a chance at the other two schools for which you're appealing. Your chances at all of them are probably the same. The difference is that you may get a place at the nearest school anyway, via the waiting list.

Make sure when you submit your appeal and make your statement that, in describing your problems, you emphasise how they will have an effect on your child, as the panel has to focus on the needs of the child. (That's why, for example, appeals along the lines of 'I need a school near my workplace' always fail). The person at the LEA may be right in saying that the LEA doesn't consider parents' health needs, but they do consider the child's social needs and you are arguing here about your child's social need to be at a local school with local children, to counteract any isolation, that arises from your health problems.

Give it your best shot.

Hi, many thanks for your help, I only moved back to the Uk in December from living in France, and only put 2 schools, as I thought he would get into the local schools, I have since been asked to be put on the waiting list for 10 other schools closer...and my appeals are on ICS basis.. if there are alot of appeals for a certain school what are the general chances of them opening another class to accomadate ?

sorry, we are appealing under the grounds of unreasonable admissions.

The decision on whether or not to open a bulge class has nothing to do with the number of appeals. It will be made on the basis of overall demand in the LEA and in the vicinity of the school - LEAs don't generally open a bulge class in one school if there is spare capacity in others.

If there are lots of appeals for one school, the appeal panel has to make a decision on each case in turn. If the result is that several appeals are likely to be allowed, the panel has to decide whether the school can cope with that number of additional pupils. If the panel feels that the school won't cope, it has to put the cases in order of priority and decide which will therefore be admitted.

The situation is even more restricted in infant class size cases. There (as you know) the scope for winning is very limited indeed, not least because admitting even just one child above 30/60/90 means hiring another teacher once the pupils move into year 1. So, in theory, even if you were the only person to win an appeal, it could mean the school having to take on another teacher (even if the class stays as one class of 31).

Was your application on time? Why has the LEA said you did not get a place at your two preferred schools? Was it because you applied late, because you lived too far from the school or for some other reason? Can you say more about what you think is unreasonable about the admissions?

On the information you've given so far, I really don't hold out any hope of your winning your appeal. You cannot realistically argue that it was unreasonable for the LEA to comply with the legal limit of 30 pupils per class if you were applying late and/or you live farther from the school than the other children admitted. The fact that you didn't use all your options (you can usually name about 5 or 6 schools on the application form) is likely to weigh heavily against you, too. The panel may well think that you created this problem by not naming some of those other 10 schools when you applied.

I was living in France at the time I made decisions , and only wrote 2 choices as I was struggling to get my son into pre school at the time, and wanted him to go to a school where he was going to make friends he could also see out of school in the area, so I picked the best schools I believed to be suited to him, and did not forsee any problems. As you can imagine I am now regretting not naming 3, or even more if I had only known..!! I will not make the same mistake for my second son !! My application was in time as we bought a house months before we moved into it, so I could prove I lived there. They have said I did not get a place due to other children in the catchment area / siblings rules.. I think addmissions is unreasonable only due to the daily stress it will cause my sons on travelling up to 3 hrs a day to school and back, not to mention the added costs, which I know is not a reasonable factor to the admissions people but it is a concern to us. I was also due to go back to work, which is another problem i will have to get round ! anyway thanks you for your advise, I live in hope something will come up..

I'm afraid that doesn't class as unreasonable. I understand your concern and sympathise but I agree with PanelMember that you are unlikely to win your appeal. Sorry.

Hi

My daughter has been refused a place at the school where she currently attends the F1 year. They advise there are no spaces in the F2 year due to infant class size prejudice. The school admission number for that year group is 75. The overall admission for the infant school is 225.

I have spoken to the school and. .the 75 student are split between 2.5 classes (2 classes of 30 and 1 class of 15. However today i got my appeal statement for the school which shows previous admission numbers-

It shows that the current number of children in year 1 is 79. This is 4 pupils more than they claim they can take. It also shows the current number of children on roll is 226, which is also more than they have stated they can take.

It then goes on to show the class size structure which is as follows

Class1 (F2) 15 pupils (this class also has F1 children attending in morning and afternoons which takes the number above 15 but it does not confirm how many.
Class2 (F2) 30 pupils
Class3 (F2) 30 pupils
Class4 (Y1) 30 pupils
Class5 (Y1) 30 pupils
Class6 (Y1) 30 pupils
Class6 (Y2) 12 Pupils
Class7 (Y2) 30 pupils
Class 8 (Y2) 30 Pupils

As there are over 30 pupils in class 6 and over 75 pupils in year 1 surely this will already mean that they can accommodate for extra pupils and also that there is already 'future infant class size prejudice'. This would mean that there is already an extra teacher and that my daughter attending would made no difference.

Does anyone have any idea how I can put this forward in the appeal?

The school they have offered my daughter is my catchment school but is terrible. It only scored satisfactory in the latest Ofsted report, compared with the school I am appealing for scored outstanding (this is where my daughter has already currently been attending for the past year).

The opening line of their Ofsted report is 'This is a satisfactory school. Most pupils that attend here come from white British backgrounds' (my daughter is mixed race and has very dark skin. I would hate for her to attend a school where she will feel isolated and different).

It also then goes on to say 'Attainment in English, Maths and Science has been significantly below average for the past 3 years'. My daughter is doing very well at her current school and her teachers have advised me she is quite advanced for her age. I feel that moving her to this terrible school would send her education and confidence backwards rather than forwards.

I cant bare the idea that my daughter may have to attend this school. \Is there ANY way possible of me winning this appeal?

all your comments will be very much appreciated! They have only given me 8 days to prepare for my appeal.

Thanks
Charlene

Our appeal for DS is next week, I purposely booked today and tomorrow off to set out any response I want to make to the schools's case as I am up and down the country next week and will literally have time to do nothing next week other than sleep, work & eat (sleep is already pared to a minimum). However we've had no paperwork from the LA, I plan to phone to chase it tomorrow. I am right in thinking that I should have it 7 days before the appeal aren't I? Would it be unreasonable to request that I can collect a hard copy from them tomorrow? I really don't want to ask for it to be postponed but feel I should have time to prepare which I won't have unless I get it tomorrow.

The clerk is required to send the school's case to you 7 worknig days before the hearing not including the day on which it is sent and the day of the hearing. For an appeal next week the clerk has clearly missed the deadline.

I think it would be quite reasonable to ask if you can collect a hard copy tomorrow.

Well I have been done to LA and picked up a hard copy of the appeal pack as it did not arrive in the post today and now am here to seek the advice of the wonderful MNetters in preparing a response to the school?s case and any questions I should be asking.

In essence the school say they increased their intake this year as they rec?d 149 applications, 78 of which put the school as 1st preference. They decided to up the intake to 75 because as 10 families with siblings would not have been offered a place had the original PAN of 60 been kept to. They say in the statement that they did not want families to be split up and that apparently this was done in agreement with the LA & Diocese.

The plan is to do some work over the summer to convert a small area (30m2) for the additional numbers. Should I be asking if the plan is to have 2 classes of 30 & one of 15 (I know they are recruiting an extra teacher, it just seems so unlikely that they will have the classes set up in that way). They have provided no information on any other facilities so should I assume that other space/facilities in the school are sufficient for additional children?

Other than that the statement consists of how they categorised DS and changes made to that recently, his position on the waiting list, a vague comment on limited school resources (finance, accommodation and personnel) but gives no detail and finally says that to admit another child would predjudice the effective education of other children and efficient use of resources but does not elaborate on how.

I have in my statement included information that clearly shows in the past 5 years the school have had far more pupils than the net capacity figure and more than they would have if they let DS have a place. Ofsted reports from these years mention no issues of overcrowding. I'm hoping I don't get to the second stage and that the panel find an error has occurred but want to be prepared for all eventualities.

Any suggestions of questions/arguments?

Having further thoughts, if the LA/school insist that our application for DS is processed using our old addres have we then got scope to make a late or in year application after the results of the appeal based on the fact that there has been a substantial change in our cicumstances?

If they have not mentioned the words "infant class size" this is not an infant class size appeal. That is good news as it gives you a much better chance of winning.

If they are stupid enough to insist on using your old address and your appeal fails I would refer the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman. I doubt they will be impressed by an LA that insists on using an incorrect address.

I am a smidge confused. On further reading of the schools statement it states that one additional child has been admitted on appeal. I am unable to tell when the school's statement was written as it is dated April 2010 and the fax date stamp at the top of the page (I'm assuming it was faxed to the LA) is June 2010. However reading the LA's appeals guidance document it states
If your appeal is one of a number of appeals for the same school and there are several cases that outweigh the prejudice to the school the Panel will then consider whether or not the school could cope with that number of successful appeals. If they decide that the school can cope then all of those appeals will be successful. If they decide that the school will not be able to cope then the Panel must then compare all of the cases that outweigh the prejudice to the school and decide which of them to uphold.

By putting in their statement that one appeal has already been upheld surely this puts DS at a disadvantage? A different panel has obviously heard the other appeal and our panel cannot compare the cases to see whom would suffer the greater prejudice?

Sorry meant to add there is no mention of ICS anywhere in the pack and (not sure if it's relevant) I have been told by the LA there are 4 appeals

You need to clarify that. If they have admitted a child on appeal without hearing all of the cases that is potentially a serious problem provided you appealed on time. I hope this simply means they have used old documentation and failed to update it properly.

Ring the LA (the school if they are their own admission authority) and ask them to clarify. If the answer is that the successful appeal wasn't for Reception this year, make sure that is made clear to the panel.

After desperately scrabbling through my paper recycling I have found the written receipt I received when I delivered my appeal form by hand, its dated as received on the closing date. However my appeal form has been dated five days afterwards by the LA. Nothing in any of the correspondence (e-mail and letter) received from the LA indicates that my appeal form has been treated as received late. The school is VA and its own admissions authority but everything to do with administration of school admission is done through LA apart from deciding who gets a place. I shall contact both legal services and the school to seek clarification on this other appeal including when it was held and will also ask the school to clarify the date it provided its statement to the LA. I will undoubtedly be back for further advice when I get their response.

Had an interesting conversation with a friend today, apparently he attended an open evening at the school to discuss how next year will work. At the meeting the H'mistress stated that they had allocated 75 places originally but that had gone up to 76 because of an appeal but went further to say they definitely won't be taking anymore. How can she be so sure? I will be contacting the school & LA tomorrow but am really concerned that DS's appeal is not being taken seriously or at least the result appears to be a forgone conclusion.

She cannot be sure. It is up to the appeal panel, not her. And we now have a problem. The LA are required to ensure that all the on time appeals are heard together and, as far as possible, any late appeals should be heard at the same time. The same panel should hear all the appeals and no decisions should be made on any appeal until all have been heard.

The only legitimate possibility I can think of is that the child concerned has a statement of SEN and the parents wanted to name this school but the LA refused. The parents would then appeal to SENDIST. That is a separate process. That could explain why there has been one successful appeal when there are 4 appeals still to be heard. However, if it was a normal appeal you potentially have grounds to refer the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman if your appeal fails on the grounds that you have been disadvantaged by the LA's failure to follow the Admission Appeals Code.

So I need to find out the situation regarding the other appeal. I'm thinking I need to ask if the panels are the same for both appeals, when the other appeal was and why it was upheld. Can they refuse to answer the questions? It smells wrong to my untrained nose and make me wonder about the upheld appeals last year, which according to numbers took them above ICS/

They can tell you when the appeal was and if it is the same panel. Why the appeal was upheld is less likely.

If there was an undisputed error in the admissions procedure the child would not need to go to the appeals process.