Any tips for primary school appeals?

[smallmotherbigheart]

This is my first time doing this, and I want to do this right. My son didn't get into any of the preferred schools that we listed? Has anyone done an appeal before?

Hello, this is my first post on here but I am in the same situation as many of you. My son has been turned down from our first choice of primary school (about 5 minutes walk from our house) and has been offered a place at another school which is about 45minutes walk from our house. I assume that this is because when we applied, we had to enter our current address at that time, even though we knew that we would be moving 2 weeks after the deadline. They were made aware of the new address, but I was warned that they could not take this into account at the time. Has anyone been in or know anyone who has been in this situation? I was really hoping that at the hearing, it would be decided that he would have been offered the other school had we already moved at the time, but after reading all of these posts, I'm now worried that this will not be the case.
My main reason for wanting him to go to this school is that all of his friends are going there. We moved to this area about a year ago and he has just started settling in with this new group and I really don't want him to have to go through all of that again.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated

You need to check what the admissions booklet says will happen if you move. Some LAs allow you to move for a few weeks after the deadline for applications and will use your new address. If the admissions booklet indicates that they should have used your new address you can argue that a mistake has been made. However, many LAs will treat you as a late application or continue to use your old address. If your LA is one of these they have administered admissions correctly. The panel should not decide which school you would have been offered if you had moved before the deadline. They should base their decision on whether the LA has followed its published arrangements correctly.

You should go ahead with your appeal. You may strike it lucky. But on the information you have posted here I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Hi

I posted above re our first choice school and the appeal hearing for that is on 14 June. We think we have a strong case. We have also appealed against our second choice but as yet have not given any reasons for doing so. The appeal is on the 15th June.

The intake for this school is 75 and we have not been informed that it is infant class size. Therefore is it possible to appeal against the decision on the basis that they could admit one more pupil as we don't have any strong reasons apart from the fact it is a better school than the one he has been allocated, a couple of his friends are going there, we are in the catchment area and it will be more convenient to get there (we are also first on the waiting list).

We don't want to waste people's time going through an appeal, equally we feel as if we have to explore every option to get as good a school as possible.

Thanks for your help

If the LA say it is not an ICS Regs case (and 75 can be an ICS Regs case or not depending on how the classes are organised) then yes it becomes much more about your own personal circumstances for wanting the school. I would not say that your personal circumstances were very strong based on what is in your post but on the other hand the freshhold for prejudice for the school may be very low if they have smallish classes in big classrooms. I would appeal as you have absolutely nothing to loose by doing so.

Hi All

Well I now have my appeal date (last week of June) and wonder if I can get some ideas from people. As it stands at the moment I submitted only the barest of bones on my original appeal form and want to flesh out my arguments and submit additional information.

I'm starting from a standpoint that a mistake has been made with our address (I have a printed form that shows my address as changed on the details submitted online but not DS's and screen prints of the same) I have also found details of a LG Ombud. complaint that I feel I can possibly use to support my idea that at least a phone call should have been made by the LA because of the difference in addresses. Do I mention the LGO finding now, or raise it at appeal? I will be submitting the form/screen prints this week with a short commentary, I have part prepared something to say at the appeal to go with it.

In case the panel do not support that a mistake has been made I am getting together a statement regarding DS and why he should go to the school, mainly focussing on the faith element. I have 2 letters; my old & new priest confirming worship and some paragraphs regarding the affect not going to the school will have on DS and information on our beliefs and how they are the same as the school?s (and wonder about mentioning at appeal DS?s rights under The Convention on The Rights Of The Child that says ?education should aim to develop respect for the values and culture of their parents? or does that come across as too ?I know my rights!!? if you get what I mean). To try to show the school can take another child, I am wanting to go down the route that the school has consistently had more than its net capacity for the last few years with no ill effects. I need to get the school to confirm the exact numbers. Is it worth finding out why the school has decided to admit so many more that it?s IAN this year? I know they are recruiting for another recep. Teacher. So teacher:pupil ratio shouldn?t be a problem.

Am I right in thinking that even if the panel are convinced that no error was made, that they should consider the fact that we moved when we did last year (both the LA/school both accept this is true)?

I think I may explode for all the research I have crammed in the last few weeks lol

ps sorry for the essay

I would put the LGO case in now and submit the full decision. You shouldn't add new evidence at the hearing. It isn't completely forbidden but it may result in the appeal being adjourned to a later date and you don't want that.

The Convention on the Rights of the Child isn't binding in UK law and yes, there is a risk that it would come across too much as "I know my rights". Personally I would steer clear of it but others may disagree.

If this is an infant class size case the only thing that matters is whether an error was made. They cannot admit you just because you moved. Even if it isn't infant class size the fact of your move on its own isn't that relevant. The panel is not there to consider which school you would have been admitted to if the LA had used your new address unless they accept that the LA got it wrong and should have used your new address.

Good luck.

I agree with all that prh47bridge has said. A further reason for not mentioning the Convention is that it is a very big leap indeed from ?education should aim to develop respect for the values and culture of their parents? to "the child has an absolute right to attend the school of his parent's first choice" which is (more or less) what you would be arguing if you go down that road.

Thanks for the feedback I thought it was a stretch, I think I knew by asking here that I shouldn't be raising it at the appeal but was clutching at any straw lol.

In terms of the LGO decision, I guess I just put the ref no and quote the appropriate paragh in full?

The LA have confirmed that this is not an ICS appeal so at least that is a benefit.

My local councillor is happy to support my appeal and if aware of all the circumstances, is it worth getting a letter from him?

Also, I am interested in knowing the reasons for why two appeals were successful last year, I know previous decisions are not binding but am interested notheless. The LA haven't refused to give me the reasons, they've just implied they're not relevant and basically told me to concentrate on my own appeal, do they have to tell me if I have asked (I've been clear that I don't expect any personal information). How can I know if there is relevance if I don't know the reasons?

I think the ref no and the appropriate paragraph should be enough for the LGO decision. The panel will get your case before the hearing so will be able to look the case up if they feel the need. Having said that, it wouldn't do any harm to enclose a copy of the full decision as well as referring to it in your case.

Good that it isn't an ICS appeal. That improves your chances.

Personally I wouldn't get local politicians involved unless they are giving expert evidence. A general letter of support isn't going to carry much weight with the panel and may feel like an attempt to apply undue pressure.

Previous successful appeals do not set precedents so last year's appeals are not relevant, except inasmuch as they indicate that the panel thought the school could cope with a couple of additional pupils. Appeals are supposed to be private so the LA won't give you any detailed information. The most you will get is that the panel decided that the prejudice to the pupil outweighed the prejudice to the school (or possibly the panel decided a mistake had been made, but they won't tell you the nature of the mistake). If they give any more information than that it risks identifying the individuals involved.

I agree with what PRH and panelmember have said.
Please do not mention the Convention, it is drilled into panel members that it cannot be taken into consideration and it is just a wasted opportunity and time to say what really matters in this case.

Thanks admission, I'm taking the advice. I know I'm grasping at anything and everything and that I need to reign myself in to concentrate on important things. I suppose I'm so keen to get it right and give DS the best possible chance that I'm getting carried away . I've taken the liberty of e-mailing prh47bridge to check if i'm being silly with the LGO decision I think i've found, as I may be way off the mark and just desperate to draw a link from it.

I've taken a look at the case. It isn't quite the same in that the decision in question basically says that it is good customer care to ring parents if they haven't provided proof of residence rather than simply refusing a place which the child would otherwise have got. However, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to say that it would be equally good customer care to check with the parents if the child's address was different to that of the parent's.

The LA will argue that they covered that by their computer system asking you to confirm when you entered your change of address. However, you will argue that no such prompt appeared. You already have an email indicating there may have been a problem with the system. Did they ever do the test I suggested?

Thanks for having a look at the case and giving me your opinion.

I asked the LA to tell me when the address was changed if I didn't change it before the deadline but they saythey are unable to tell me when it was changed. They have provided a series of screen prints to support their assertion that I changed neither address. Which admittedly their screenprints do seem to support. However my evidence supports that at minimum I changed my address if not DS's. They have also provided screen prints of how the wesite would have looked prior to the cutoff date, and the place to enter the child's addres is directly below that of the parent so I can only think it didn't save after I changed it or somehow I missed changing the address altogether. I know my case for error is pretty weak, but I do think there is the hint of an error which might be enough

I don't know what the panel will think but personally I don't think having the child's address directly below the parent's address is enough. People will change their address and not realise they need to change their child's address as well. In my view the website should pop up a warning that the addresses are different and ask parents to confirm. The LGO case you have found suggests that the LGO may have similar expectations.

That's the way I've thought about it as well. There is no pop up warning to be seen on the anywhere on the submission form or any of the details that they have provided. I will put in my statement that I think there should be some sort of warning or prompt in place to avoid this type of occurence.

Hi

thanks for all of your help on here, we had some good news as we found out we have now got a place for our son at our second choice school where he was first on the waiting list. This takes the pressure off while we prepare for the appeal for our first choice.

I would be grateful for some advice on the appeal as we have now received the authorities case, minus the School plans which are due to be sent. In summary:

The PAN was set at 40 although the next capacity is 56. They received 59 preference applications, allocated 40 and have since allocated a further 2 who have moved in the area. The School will operate 2 classes of 24 including 6 year 1 pupils. The NET capacity of the School is 283 and they expect 263 pupils on the roll. Numbers across other years are 45 in year 1, 43 in year 2, 39 in year 3, 29 in year 4, 35 in year 5 and 32 in year 6. There are some mixed classes in year 1,2 and 3 which is not what we were told when we visited.

The headteachers submission states that they aim for classes of 25 in KS1 and 30 in KS2 and that the rise in numbers if having an impact on class sizes and they are unable to employ any extra teachers. Furthermore they have a lot of children with special needs and from challenging backgrounds and this increases the workload on staff. Again this is different to what we were told when we visited as his comments then were that having pupils with special needs brought extra money into the School.

I am not sure how strong our case is but would you recommend focusing on the difference between the net capacity and the school roll? Our arguments are based on the fact that our son has been at pre-school nursery, that logistically it is going to be difficult to take our daughter to nursery there and then drop our son off at a different school 15 mins away and that the headteacher told us that we would not have a problem getting a place.

Thanks again

I'm not sure what you mean by "the next capacity is 56". With a PAN of 40 I would expect a net capacity of around 280, which is what you show. The good news is that this does not appear to be an infant class size case on the information posted.

They have gone beyond PAN already. That should only have happened if there are no places at other schools in the area. It is worth asking about that. If it turns out there were places for these children elsewhere but the school has chosen to admit them anyway that will help your case.

I would point out the numbers in Y1 and Y2 as these indicate the school can handle more pupils than they have at the moment, as does the difference between the number on roll and the net capacity.

Pupils with special needs do bring extra money to the school but they also increase the workload. Both statements are true. The bigger weakness in the head teacher's submission is the aim for classes of 25 in KS1 and the comment that they can't employ extra teachers. They don't need to employ extra teachers until they have 30 in a class. Indeed, the fact they are planning on two classes of 24 but the head says they aim for classes of 25 suggests they can admit at least 2 more pupils without problems.

Looking at your case, the fact that your son was at the pre-school nursery is not relevant unless the school gives priority for admission to children at the nursery. You can mention it by all means but it won't carry any weight with the panel. The logistical problems also won't be relevant. If the head teacher did say you would not have a problem getting a place that was naughty of him and definitely something you should raise. Your case would be stronger if you can give some reasons why your son needs to attend this school - things offered by this school that are not available at the offered school and which will be particularly useful for your son.

The school's case simply does not add up to classes of 25 in the infants.
The total number of pupils is 42 + 45 + 43 = 130, which to meet the infant class size regs says that as a minimum there has to be 5 classes containing infant children.
We have been told that the 42 reception pupils and six year 1s are in two classes of 24, which leaves 39 year 1 pupils and 43 year 2 pupils = 82 pupils which is 2 classes of 27 and 1 class of 28. I am assuming here that there is not a mixed year 2 /3 class.
Based on these figures I think there is a reasonable arguement that the school is easily able to cope with not an admission of 42 but an admission of 45 or 46 to even the classes out at the 27 and 28 pupils they have in the mixed year 1 /2 classes. The fact that they have already admitted two over the 40 is a clear indication that the LA feel that extra pupils can be accomodated.

I agree with PRH, the comments about they can't employ extra teachers is nonsense. They can use the same teachers till the class reaches 30 and there is nothing to suggest that the class rooms cannot physically take 30 pupils. This is about a school wanting to run with low numbers in the class, which is very laudable but simply not realistic.
I have to say that I have some questions over how the two were admitted over PAN. They simply cannot admit because they moved into the area. If they were late applicants they should be treated as such and go onto the waiting list, like everybody else. To me it is quite possible that two people may have been disadvantaged by the LA doing this, but it does depend on the details and the dates involved.
If you can prove that the head said anybody in the nursery would get a place then that would be a massive positive for a successful outcome to the appeal. It is clear in the admission code, para 1. 36 that the head must not do that, so do you have it in writing or is it on the school website or even the nursery website?

Well, yesterday I submitted my statement (3½ pages) & quite a few sheets of supporting info (school nos, LGO decision etc) to the LA for our appeal. As I've said earlier one piece of information is something I would prefer as few people to know about as possible (medical info about me), during my professional life I have cause to meet with Council employees (sometimes from the very office I have had to submit my papers to and would be embarrassed if many people were privy to it. Does my information get sent to the school/anywhere else in the council or does it just go straight to the panel?

It should just be to whoever handles it in the LA offcie, the LA presenting officer and to the panel members. However if you feel it is more appropriate I see no reason why you cannot refer in your submission to you going to make a medical declaration at the appeal but that you do not have all the information to hand at this moment in time. You can then bring it up direct with the panel at the appeal and therefore will have minimised the number of people seeing it.
I would recommend that if you decide to do that then it would be best to make 5 copies of the documents, 3 for the panel, 1 for the LA presenting officer and 1 for the clerk to the panel. You should hand them to the clerk before the appeal starts and they will make sure that the panel and presenting offcier get the documents. There is a slight danger that this may cause a short adjournment for the documents to be studied but nothing that is a problem.

Thanks admission, I submitted it all yesterday inc the medical information. I am just having a moment at the thought of others having hold of the information

Hi, I would just like to share some good news. Further to my posts on this thread on 12th/13th May, & being advised to lobby councillors to create a bulge class we have been successful.
Following letters to councillors, the MP and an article in the local paper, all 17 children who were in catchment but refused a place have now been offered a place at our catchment school without having to go to the appeal.
Thank you to those who offered useful advice, and it is nice to know that parent power does sometimes achieve results, or maybe the county council just used some common sense!

Well done!

Hi - what a useful thread! My question is, as I am appealing on the grounds on my health (specifically that i receive dla mobility as I am often unable to travel a complex route due to mental health problems, and also that sai mental health issues means the children are at risk of isolation, an being at one of the local schools would reduce that risk.) would my dla award notice be enough (it just says what dla I get, not why) or do I need a letter from a doctor etc?

She is now on the waiting lists for the 8 closest schools. Any further away would mean at least 30 minutes and two buses each way. We applied on time, we live in a pretty average suburban place, I never expected this :( Apparently only one school in the entire town has a couple of places, and there is about two classes worth of children left over. We could end up at a school at the opposite end of the LEA at this rate, although tbh if that happens (up to 2 hours each way on public transport and I am medically unfit to drive) we will have to either HE or look at the other LEAs nearby. Can't see them being any better off though, as they are more built up and just as deprived.