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Primary education

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Original poster

Being a reader for year 6 SATs tests

76 replies

satreadingmum · 04/04/2011 09:46

Has anyone got any experience of being a reader for year 6 numeracy papers? Presumably the school will give me lots of pointers about what/what not to do, but would be interested to hear from others who have done this.

thanks.

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clam · 19/04/2011 13:07

I don't suppose there are any valid "complex local reasons" at all. I suspect the poster was merely trying to find a way to justify something she suddenly realised was a no-no and back-track quickly.
Trouble is, there are a lot of teachers who know what they're talking about on these boards. And it's the holidays, so we've nothing better to do we have a bit of spare time!

Feenie · 19/04/2011 13:26

bilital as many experienced teachers/readers have pointed out, you can't do/say the things TwentyFirstWoman suggests, or use 'common sense' - common sense here means adhering absolutely to the statutory guidance or risking finding yourself involved in a charge of maladministration.

There were 252 charges of maladministration charges in 2009 - LEAs constantly warn that most of these are as a result of staff working in small group or one to one situations who don't know the guidance properly, or misinterpret it. It is crucial that staff working with pupils granted special arrangements are fully aware of the language that may or may not be used, and know the importance of upholding the exact special arrangements granted to pupils.

Feenie · 19/04/2011 13:29

Asking if they are ready to read the following question is not. (Regardless of what the 'guidance' says). Instead of religiously hanging on to every last word of the guidance how about some common sense?

Er....you are aware that the document is statutory, aren't you? And that heads can, and have been, actually prosecuted for not upholding their legal obligations?

Feenie · 19/04/2011 13:31

Very interesting, btw, bilital, that both you and TwentyFirstWoman have only posted on one thread, ever - this one. Sock puppet much?

BehindLockNumberNine · 19/04/2011 13:49

Asking if they are ready for the next question IS cheating. You are keeping the child on task. What about the child whose reading was good enough to not need a reader but whose organisational / concentrations skills are low. Who is going to keep them on taks? Who is reminding them to move onto the next question. NO-ONE.

It is supposed to be a level playing field. So if a child has a low reading age then he/she is entitled to a reader. Not a manager who makes sure he/she answers all questions.

I work in a Junior School (age 7-11) as a TA. Last year I was a reader for the first time. (my first year in the job, will be a reader again this year no doubt) I was given the guidelines to read, and all TA's had a meeting with the SENCO regarding the individual children we were supporting and what that support should be (reader / scribe)
We also had a meeting with the assessment co-ordinator (who is also a teacher). At both meetings we were given very strict rules on what we could and could not do. And prompting a child to move to the next question, lingering on a page if an answer is wrong and quickly turning over if the answers are right are downright no-no's. In fact, if I were to do any of what TwentyFirstCentury advises I would be up for a disciplinary and quite possibly lose my job. I would also compromise the dc's SAT results as I will have helped him/her to cheat!

themildmanneredjanitor · 19/04/2011 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clam · 19/04/2011 14:11

Mind you, if this is common practice in schools, then I guess it goes some way to explain all those with 100% L4 and aboves.

Feenie · 19/04/2011 14:14

Yes - makes me really cross.

bilital · 19/04/2011 17:46

Sorry - didn't realise your post is only taken seriously if it isn't a first one. Sock Puppet? How immature of you. I hope you were welcomed the same way when you first posted.I am an experenced teacher. I stand by what I said. Yes I do realise it is statutory. So is Every Child Matters. You are basically saying that children with low attention spans should be given a disadvantage. They could come out below level 3 purely because they didn't finish the test, when they could actually be a comfortable level 4 academically. It backs up the argument for scrapping SATs and allowing their teachers to assess their levels.

So to sum up your argument - a child with a low attention span should be left to fail. Because the guidance says so. Yes common sense is to follow the guidelines. Which I will do with my own Yr 6 class. However I obviously won't be a 'reader' for any of them. I'm just saying I don't agree with them whatsoever and think it contradicts Every Child Matters in every possible way. I also pointed out that I understood some of your points. It's a shame you can't consider other opinions before posting childish comments. I have to deal with 10/11 year old kids quite often who call each other names. What a shame I can't reassure them it stops once you become an adult as you have just proven.

bilital · 19/04/2011 17:50

Oh, and in my school it is a level playing field. They have 1:1 for reading/behaviour/attention. And it isn't cheating. Their results are nearly always that of their teacher assessments.

Feenie · 19/04/2011 18:52

As several experienced people have told you already, you are breaking the rules, which is potentially very serious indeed. Whether or not I agree with the legally binding guidance is immaterial - it has to be adhered to. Of course I don't think SATs are an accurate assessment - you would be hard pushed to find a teacher who doesn't think they should be scrapped, but that's not the issue here.

How can I 'consider other opinions' when they are blatantly against the rules? It's not childish to refuse to consider actions which are outside the law. I think it's highly irresponsible of you to post that teachers and other staff should act outside these guidelines, and it's incredibly insulting of you to suggest that those who do adhere to statutory guidelines are lacking in common sense.

And posting a suggestion that teachers should consider acting illegally as your very first post, in support of someone else who posted equally mental unwise advice and who is also making their very first post, is bound to raise eyebrows at the very least. I really don't care whether you think that, or following the rules, is childish. At least it won't see me facing the GTC on a disciplinary charge, which has happened to several teachers who thought it was fine to use their 'common sense' also when choosing to deliberately misinterpret official guidance 'for the children' in the past. Idiots.

clam · 19/04/2011 19:28

"So to sum up your argument - a child with a low attention span should be left to fail."

Erm... that's not feenie's or anyone else's "argument." It's the RULES!!!!!

bilital · 19/04/2011 19:43

It is the rues but it is not cheating. It doesn't give the child an unfair advantage, it gives them what they are entitled to. But yes you are correct. It is the rules. And yes they are very unfair rules. I shall also be sticking to the rules, however I have no control over what the readers will be doing with the children from my class.

The childish comment was in response to the sock puppet comment. Which it is just that. Immature and childish. I did not at any point say that your views were childish. Not sure you'd scrape a 3A with your comprehension skills!

Feenie · 19/04/2011 19:46

It is the rues but it is not cheating And you're criticising my comprehension skills? That doesn't even make sense.

I shall also be sticking to the rules, however I have no control over what the readers will be doing with the children from my class.

Senior management in your school, however, should have control.

bilital · 19/04/2011 19:47

I'd be interested in seeing if there was a case where someone faced disciplinary action for asking children if they wanted them to read the next question! I'd understand if they were given extra time/DH took papers home (as someone else pointed out) but not that...surely! If so the world has gone mad!

mrz · 19/04/2011 19:51

If they were observed "not following procedure" they would be removed and the test would be invalid. Whether you agree with the rules or not they are there for a reason and should be followed so every school does the same thing and every child has the same chances.

Feenie · 19/04/2011 20:01

Are you experienced in teaching Y6, bilital? Because this kind of stuff appears every single year, both in the refresher training and in the ARA, which I still can't believe you think you don't have to stick to.

Feenie · 19/04/2011 20:04

I did not at any point say that your views were childish. Not sure you'd scrape a 3A with your comprehension skills!

I didn't say that you did.

PonceyMcPonce · 19/04/2011 20:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bilital · 19/04/2011 20:07

I was just wondering if they would face discipinary for asking a child if they were ready for the next question. And if it was a parent helper I'm not sure what they could do other than make the poor child re-do the test etc. And for such a silly thing too! I know it is the rules. I just feel so sad that it is considered cheating. And I would put money on it that nobody has ever been pulled up for such a minor offence!

I'm sure that even the inspectors pick their battles when it comes to which rules they feel need enforcing more. The poster who is accused of encouraging cheating pointed out that they had an inspection where they did everything she had said and it was considered satisfactory. OK they may not have heard someone ask the child the polite question "would you like me to read the next question?" but I would imagine they were more interested in seeing if tests were not open and read prior to tests, that seating arrangements were appropriate and displays covered etc.

Some children will achieve poorer results than what they are capable because of these rules. It's such a shame, and like I said, not reflective of ECM values. I also feel sad that you can't have a debate on a public forum without being called a sock puppet. I should imagine anyone reading it who has never posted before will think twice now even if they have an opinion. What a lovely person you are!

PonceyMcPonce · 19/04/2011 20:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bilital · 19/04/2011 20:11

I really don't care whether you think that, or following the rules, is childish.
(Your comment)
My response was to point out that I had referred to the 'sock puppet' comment as childish NOT your opinion!

Yes I am experienced in YR 6. However I supervise my class during the tests, not the children in my class who need the support. So I am not breaking any rules as someone has implied. I just take my class who work quietly, to the rules, with no support or cheating from me!
Thanks!

Feenie · 19/04/2011 20:13

I've explained why I suggested that you were a sock puppet. I'm sure anyone who has never posted on the internet won't understand or give a damn. It was a strange first post to make, and your views are not only inflammatory, but go against statutory guidance. It's hard to believe someone is that silly, let alone an experienced teacher.

And if it was a parent helper I'm not sure what they could do other than make the poor child re-do the test etc.
Don't your LEA read out actual maladministration cases in your training which describe exactly these scenarios? All of the cohort's papers would be scrapped.

bilital · 19/04/2011 20:14

And PonceyMcPonce, I totally agree with you. I think some questions could be read to give the child an unfair advantage and that really would not be acceptable. And certainly not encouraged!

Feenie · 19/04/2011 20:16

And posting a suggestion that teachers should consider acting illegally as your very first post, in support of someone else who posted equally mental unwise advice and who is also making their very first post, is bound to raise eyebrows at the very least. I really don't care whether you think that, or following the rules, is childish.

If you read what I posted before, instead of reading a fragment, you'll see that I still haven't said that you stated my views were childish.

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