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Being a reader for year 6 SATs tests

76 replies

satreadingmum · 04/04/2011 09:46

Has anyone got any experience of being a reader for year 6 numeracy papers? Presumably the school will give me lots of pointers about what/what not to do, but would be interested to hear from others who have done this.

thanks.

OP posts:
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Feenie · 04/04/2011 10:03

Are you being asked as a parent to volunteer? Seems unusual - guidelines are so strict that schools usually stick to teachers, even senior management only in some cases.

TwentyFirstCenturyWoman · 04/04/2011 10:35

Hi!

I read for SATs and have done for several years. Our school definitely couldn't just use teachers and SMT as a third of the children are entitled to have readers and there just aren't enough people in a relatively small school!

You should be given a copy of the guidelines - if not, then ask for it as the school will have it. Our team of readers has been reading for practise SATs for the last term - this was an important part of the process as the school need to prove that Readers make a difference to a child.

My basic rule of thumb is to stick to the words of the question, but there are ways to read the question (ie expression and nuance) that help. Also, keeping the child on track is a key part of the task eg. "Shall I read the next question now?", or, sometimes, "would you like me to read that question again?". Obviously, you can't help other than this, and it is really hard sometimes to watch a child make a simple mistake and just ignore it and carry on. At the end of the test, encourage the child to re-read through the questions, with you, and there are ways at this point that you can assist, eg. hesitate on a page and ask if child is happy with their responses, or quickly turn over to the next page if answers are good.

Hope this helps

Wafflenose · 04/04/2011 10:37

I haven't been a reader, but I have been a scribe for a boy who broke his arm the day before the tests started. At the time, I was on teaching practice in a Year 6 class, so the teacher and TA supervised the others while I went into an adjoining room with the boy. I was told I was only allowed to write exactly what he told me to. In the spelling test, he had to spell the words out and I had to write his spellings. For numeracy, he told me his workings and I had to write those out too. I was allowed to tell him when he had 5 or 10 minutes left to go and suggest that he check his answers, but was obviously not allowed to show him which answers he should check! It was a rewarding but frustrating experience (watching him make mistakes!) I know it's not the same as what you are being asked to do, but thought you might find it interesting to hear about. The school should give you full training. Are you a parent helper?

Wafflenose · 04/04/2011 10:37

x-post with TwentyFirst!

Feenie · 04/04/2011 11:05

Our team of readers has been reading for practise SATs for the last term - this was an important part of the process as the school need to prove that Readers make a difference to a child.

No, schools have to prove that readers are part of normal classroom practice. The information you've posted so far doesn't really match that description.

Feenie · 04/04/2011 11:09

Shall I read the next question now?

You cannot say this. You absolutely cannot tell a child when to move on to the next question - you are expressly forbidden to do this in the statutory gudelines.

Feenie · 04/04/2011 11:45

The statutory document is here, op.

Feenie · 04/04/2011 11:53

At the end of the test, encourage the child to re-read through the questions, with you, and there are ways at this point that you can assist, eg. hesitate on a page and ask if child is happy with their responses, or quickly turn over to the next page if answers are good.

Only just reread this bit properly - fgs, TwentyFirstCenturyWoman, I cannot believe that you are posting this kind of advice on a public forum; what you have suggested here is out and out cheating.

IndigoBell · 04/04/2011 11:59

If a third of the kids are entitled to readers (and it's not a Special School) then alarm bells about cheating are already ringing for me......

Anybody who still judges a school by their SAT results take note....

TwentyFirstCenturyWoman · 04/04/2011 12:24

Well, thanks for completely tearing me to shreds! Actually, I'm fully aware of statutory guidelines and the practise thereof! Thanks all the same!

Our school could most certainly not be accused of cheating on any level! You also miss understand my advice! Yes, you only encourage a student to move on if they have lost focus - a number of our students have issues with Attention and need to be reminded to focus - this is the point of readers!

OUr school has very high levels of SEN for complex local issues that I'm not prepared to divulge on a public forum.

I wonder if those of you who slate me have ever actually been a reader? Then you might understand my points a little better! Under no circumstances do any of my points contravene statutory guidelines, although I think I could have expressed myself a lot better.

OP, definitely read the guidelines as posted by another helpful poster, and follow accordingly.

The rest of you, don't attack someone who you don't know anything about. I am far more qualified and experienced than a 'parent helper', but then, you didn't know that did you! Oh and the moderators were more than happy with our practise last year, thanks all the same!

IndigoBell · 04/04/2011 12:43

Sorry, I'm not attacking you. It's not you who decides who does or doesn't need a reader.....

I can't think what 'complex local issues' would make a third of the kids need a reader - but then I've obviously led a sheltered life :)

I still persist in believing that a school should teach all children to read :(

TwentyFirstCenturyWoman · 04/04/2011 13:09

I'm quite envious of those of you who work/send your children to schools where readers are a rarity.

I'm not prepared to divulge our own situation and circumstances, as they are quite unique, but there must be many schools using lots of readers. Examples might include classes with high levels of new arrivals who are Beginners in English (are translations available?), schools attached to special units, schools in areas of significant social deprivation and high levels of mobility, just to name a few.

Our school works hard to teach ALL children to read - we run various programmes, with assistance of additional funding. However, many of the children who receive intervention may move on, whilst those who have not had its benefit may move in.

My mistake in my first post was to speak to much from my own personal experiences, which tend to be with children with very specific problems who need, AND ARE ENTITLED TO, the kind of assistance I give.

We don't know the OPs situation, but being a parent called in this late in the year, I would expect it to be at least a little similar to my own.

Feenie · 04/04/2011 16:38

I am an experienced assessment coordinator - the example statements you gave, and the example actions are not allowed under any circumstances whatsoever.

I work in a school where socio-economic conditions are difficult, there s very high mobility and where we have high numbers of EAL and SEN children. None of it makes what you say right. Our school also works hard to teach all our children to read - what a bizarre thing to say - and it staggers me that someone with so much experience can make the kind of posts you have been making. And it annoys me also that the playing field is not even because schools like yours bend the rules and cheat.

To then try to retract it in part by saying your children have 'special circumstances' is just rubbish - why post to someone looking for general advice then - not that this matters, since there are no circumstances where you would be allowed to do/say the things you describe.

Our team of readers has been reading for practise SATs for the last term - this was an important part of the process as the school need to prove that Readers make a difference to a child.
This is garbage. Schools have to prove that the pupils taking a test regularly have reading support in the classroom. Either the school is putting readers in the classroom for one term only, just to satisfy the rules - a highly suspect practice in itself - or you mean that they have read for practice SATs. Either is distinctly hooky.

The guidance also states that a reader must be used on a one-to-one basis only. In most cases, this will apply to pupils whose reading age is much lower than their actual age (as a guide, a reading age of nine or lower). Readers must not be used with pupils who are capable of reading the test materials on their own.

Why are a third of your children not capable of this? We have all the difficulties you describe, but don't have a third of children who regularly have to be read to as normal classroom practice, are working from a level 3 to 5 but yet don't have a reading age of 9. Hmm

From the guidance again A pupil may need more than single words or sentences read to them. Some pupils? identified needs, for example their individual education plan, will show that they need the whole question paper read to them so that they can access the test. In this case, schools should administer the test to the pupil in a separate room.

From the amount of reading you describe, your reader children all need more than single words read to them, so all need to be in separate rooms - how do you find the space?

You said Also, keeping the child on track is a key part of the task. Here, you are confusing the role of a reader with the role of a prompter - a separate role. The rules for prompters are also very clear: Prompters should only be used to draw a pupil?s attention back to the task ? not to advise the pupil on which questions to do, when to move on to the next question or the order in which to attempt questions. Ideally, the prompter should be the pupil?s own learning support assistant, so that they know the pupil is not, for example, simply looking away from the paper while thinking.

Your post of "Shall I read the next question now? clearly breaches those guidelines, and this statement there are ways at this point that you can assist, eg. hesitate on a page and ask if child is happy with their responses, or quickly turn over to the next page if answers are good displays blatant out and out cheating, and if I knew which school you were at I wouldn't hesitate to report you.

Yes, you only encourage a student to move on if they have lost focus - a number of our students have issues with Attention and need to be reminded to focus - this is the point of readers!
No, it isn't. The point of a reader is to read, as described in the guidance, and the point of a prompter is to prompt - although not tell them when to move on to the next question.

Feenie · 04/04/2011 16:41

Oh, and a prompter must also only be used on a one to one basis, and again requires a separate room - more space required.

seeker · 04/04/2011 16:48

I have been a reader for some time now. Twentyfirstcenturywoman's actions would invalidate the tests.

A significant number of our children have readers for Maths, and had for science, so I know what I'm talking about.

TFCW - you need to talk to your Head about this - your school could really be up sh*t creek if this gets out.

TwentyFirstCenturyWoman · 04/04/2011 17:15

Oh, here we go again!

WE WERE MODERATED LAST YEAR - WITH WHAT I AM DESCRIBING (but maybe not well).
Have you been moderated?

Note I said 'small school' - so yes we do find enough space for individual children. The sad fact is that no, many of these children (remember small school = small numbers) do not read to level 3 (or anywhere near in a couple of cases).

My only guilt is in mixing the role of prompter and reader. FEENIE - read my original post! I know the guidelines!!! WE ARE NOT IN BREACH! I just didn't express myself very well in my OP - guilty as charged!

How is it that some people have so much time to spend on MN, commenting with such apparent expertise on so many different education topics?

Are these the same people that supposedly assess children on a regular basis to level 6 and beyond? And you're questionning my practise?

The real issue is the league tables and the handicap schools with high levels of SEN experience - and if you're not aware of the new pressures of this then you clearly are out of the system. But, no, we're not cheating (thank goodness the moderators agree), just ensuring that our children have the help they are entitled to.

I won't be back, thanks all the same.

Feenie · 04/04/2011 17:24

We've been moderated within the normal cycle of 3 years and had off the cuff 'spotchecks' several times. Either you weren't daft enough to say some of the things you've carelessly chucked onto this forum as normal practice, or they don't know their statutory obligations either - we had an advisor on here last year who told everyone that KS1 tests weren't statutory, so advisors aren't infallible by any means. But everyone can read - you can see if you read the guidance that you are clearly in breach if you say and do the things you describe.

How is it that some people have so much time to spend on MN, commenting with such apparent expertise on so many different education topics?

Er...it's the Easter holidays Hmm

"Are these the same people that supposedly assess children on a regular basis to level 6 and beyond? And you're questionning my practise?"

Snide, silly and total bollocks. Our teacher assessment is of course moderated by the LEA and OFSTED, who say it is rigorous. We also seek to pair moderate with other schools. Some children do reach level 6 within primary schools, there are (again) very clear guidelines on how to do this, and it is in no way a questionable practice as you have attempted to insinuate. Don't lash out at me just because you have posted some very silly things in the guise of 'advice' to other posters - advice that would almost certainly see them involved in a charge of maladministration.

seeker · 04/04/2011 17:27

Presumably you didn't say what you've said on here to the moderator.

Lookandlearn · 04/04/2011 19:35

Just read this post to dh, who is usually not that interested, to say the least, In munsnet posts. He is a secondary school teacher and says the following, to the reader with suggestions on how to read "helpfully"
"in choosing to take this approach, it seems the primary interest served is the school not the child. Such actions may increase levels achieved but will have consequences for the individual at secondary school. As a result of your actions the secondary school will havevinaccurate data on the child's ability. As a result, they may not receive the support they need and are likely to be set targets which will remain with them throughout their school career which they are unable to attain. As a result, they may consider themselves to be a failure which may affect their approach to learning. Please can we focus on tests measuring where the child is at rather than where someone else wants then to be"
I have taught year sixes and gone through sats and I know what the temptations can be but helping a child with the test might give them a "badge" to wear that says a particular level, but I agree with dh that unless that badge fairly reflects their achievement at that time it's worthless. Don't ask me whether I think the actual tests are worthwhile - I may explode. But while they're here and being used to predict future achievement they've got to be administered fairly and according to the rules.
Reading means just that and the children need to know that's all you can do and that you'll do it if and when asked.

SandStorm · 04/04/2011 19:45

I've been a reader for the past two years and will probably do so again this year. I have been told that I can read the words on the page and remind the child at the halfway point and again when there are five minutes to go.

It's incredibly frustrating to watch them spend hours over a question only to get it wrong and not be able to say or intimate anything to them but I'm only there to assist with their reading of the question, not their comprehension.

bilital · 19/04/2011 08:59

I cannot see how this is considered cheating. If you read the guidance then yes, it wouldn't be strictly following the rules. But in my opinion, indicating an incorrect answer is cheating. Telling them the correct answer is also cheating. Asking if they are ready to read the following question is not. (Regardless of what the 'guidance' says). Instead of religiously hanging on to every last word of the guidance how about some common sense? Some children might be incredibly shy, and not want to ask them if they can read it. They could potentially sit there and say/do nothing. What will you do? Pull your guidance out and refuse to utter a thing? How do you draw their attention back to the paper without making a polite comment such as 'shall I read the next question?'

The SATs tests should be a reflection of what they have learned throughout ks2. A child with a low reading age (I have approx 5 severely dyslexic children in my class) may not be able to reflect that in their maths if they cannot read the questions. Like I say, if they are shy/nervous etc they may not ask the reader to help them read the question. How on earth would you know if they wanted you to read the next one without asking? How is that giving them an unfair advantage? It's allowing the children to show their full potential of what they can do. Not how well they can do a test. If this got out to the press can you imagine the headlines "Child asked if they were ready to do the next question!" "Child asked 'are you sure you are ready to turn over?"I can't imagine the general public would bat an eyelid - other than to say "shouldn't that be happening anyway with a child who needs support reading."

And I also believe that if the school needs 1/3 of readers so be it. What happened to Every Child Matters? You must have led a sheltered life as you pointed out because we have a high proportion of children with low reading ages at my school. This is not because we don't teach them to read. What would you do with 5 dyslexic children? Leave them to struggle because the guidance says so? I can see your point in some areas, but I still think "out and out cheating" is a complete over-reaction.

clam · 19/04/2011 10:38

twentyfirstcenturywoman I wouldn't get into a debate with feenie about which of you is better qualified to comment on assessment matters. As she has stated, she is an assessment coordinator in a primary school. And therefore a teacher. At best you might be a TA or a parent helper.
I don't see how we can have "misunderstood" your "advice." You gave specific examples of what you have said to children you have read for. In black and white. And Feenie pointed out, quite rightly, that those things go way over the line stated in the guidance. So I don't see how you can be "fully aware of statutory guidelines and the practise thereof!" ( practice actually, but no matter. The teacher in me could not let that pass!)
And I believe that moderators don't necessarily witness the actual tests themselves. They will be checking for things like whether the tests have been opened prior to the day and so on. And, as others have said, you would have been unlikely to been allowed to say what you report here in front of any moderator, surely?

clam · 19/04/2011 10:40

Oops, don't know what happened to that last sentence!

diabolo · 19/04/2011 11:10

I've done SAT's reading for many years and have acted as a scribe too (for a boy with a broken wrist).

We absolutely cannot prompt the children in any way and they must ask you to read a question if they want you to. Teachers sometimes tell the children involved to ask their reader if they will please read them every question.

I've had some kids who've asked me to read all the questions, and some who don't want any help at all.

The only "help" we were permitted to give was to read the questions with as much inflection as possible, to try and guide the child towards the right answer.

emptyshell · 19/04/2011 12:25

"I can't think what 'complex local issues' would make a third of the kids need a reader - but then I've obviously led a sheltered life"

IndigoBell I mark SATs and I've seen schools with about this proportion of the cohort have scribes or transcripts for kids whose writing was completely legible... then kids you'd LOVE to have a transcript because it's barely readable from other schools haven't (and your heart aches for them while you're giving yourself a migraine trying to work out what a word says to squeeze every possible mark out for 'em)!

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