Phonics

[benito]

There was an interesting thread on phonics on here the other day. I then saw this piece on the BBC website and wondered what people thought.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12509477

I absolutely see the importance of phonics but I do have a great deal of sympathy with the view that teaching phonics should not be conflated with the teaching of reading itself.

My 5 year old now attempts to decode every word he sees, even those he knows, and even when he can see from the picture (or would if he lifted his head from pressing his 'magic sounds finger' against every letter/sound) what the word should be.

What are the views of our experts out there?

Maize... I misunderstood what you were saying... this happens in these forums when you come back to something later instead of being able to have a continuing conversation.

mrz... lol at librarian.

I remember giving up and buying the book

@GotArt,

I'm glad we've cleared that one up .

It is confusing with a number of different conversations going on at the same time.

MaisieD I meant a situation where a child knows of the concept of a gong and what it looks like, probably from a cartoon, but doesn't know that it is known as a gong. If the picture is not there, they are likely to decode the correct word "gong" but be none the wiser to the meaning, the picture will help with that.

If I don't know a word I use a dictionary or google it or ask someone that might know. My 5 year old would have a bit of trouble using a dictionary to look at gong and the explanation may involve longer words that aren't as easy to read!

Sorry for latching onto the gong issue it just illustrated my point (no pun intended ).

I'm still fairly confused about why I shouldn't help my DS read at home but spoke to my mother today, she is a special needs teacher and agrees with all of you about phonics and about mixed methods of teaching reading. She did say that in her experience with able children it isn't a huge problem if parents help with reading etc at home, it becomes more of a problem if there are other learning issues. When she taught me to read she wasn't trained in this btw so her phonics training hasn't rubbed off on me I don't think!

This has been an interesting thread...

meant a situation where a child knows of the concept of a gong and what it looks like, probably from a cartoon, but doesn't know that it is known as a gong. If the picture is not there, they are likely to decode the correct word "gong" but be none the wiser to the meaning, the picture will help with that. If the child decoded the word gong and there was no picture the adult simply has to explain what a gong is (and in a school setting show them a real gong and give them time to explore it). Real objects are preferable to images when introducing new names when working with young children.

Why has the adult explained it if the child has appeared to read it correctly? I have a reasonable idea of my son's vocabulary but wouldn't expect a parent helper at school to know for example.

because part of reading with a child is making sure they understand what they have read ...talking about it and asking questions. Even if a child reads a book word perfect the teacher would check understanding and talk about what they have read.

I'm still fairly confused about why I shouldn't help my DS read at home

Please, can we be absolutely clear. There is nothing at all 'wrong' about helping your child read at home. Just give 'helpful' help, not help that is going to lead to misconceptions and muddles!

Don't expect your child to read words which contain graphemes which they haven't yet been taught.

But, there's nothing wrong with telling a child "In this word 'xx' spells a 'y'sound, you'll learn it later," if they want to have ago at sounding it out.

Don't let them 'read' the pictures if they are stuck on a word, help them to sound it out (as above..).

I know it seems hard, but don't let mistakes go unnoticed; it will just reinforce the 'wrong' reponse. There are lots of kind ways to get a child to re-read a word without actually saying 'that was wrong'

Don't tell them what a word 'says' if you know they have the phonic knowledge with which to sound it out and blend it, but do help with memory jogging if needed.

jalapeno, you have a huge advantage if your mum is phonics trained; pick her brains.

Why don't I use 'preview'?

Thanks MaizieD, I think I do that anyway so have probably not caused any problems, I always made him attempt the word in his ORT books and would say "don't guess, you can do it" etc. but in books from home I am aware there are much harder, random words in there that he needs help with so I help him say them and he repeats it.

I showed my mum his reading book yesterday as we thought it was a fairly odd one but immediately she said "oh yes, it's going over "EE" sounds so lots of dear, deer, earwig". It sort of made sense then that even though we can't bear these ORT books they each have a different meaning.

She tells me that my concerns are more to do with vocabulary and that is totally different (mrz is trying to explain this to me I think!) and I have been confusing "reading" with vocab and comprehension. She sat with DS for a while and says there are no problems with his decoding and blending so not to worry and I'll help him develop his spelling and vocab at home

mrz I hope this would happen in school but DS1's teacher says they only have to listen to DS read once a fortnight one-to-one so I'm trying to help at home. Thanks for the tips

Songbirds orange level The Deer and the Earwig is my guess one more to go

lol, how did you guess? Not sure they are doing them in any order, this is the first ORT phonics book he has brought home, the last book was a biffnchip about the teacher not believing there was a donkey in the playground!

They only swap books twice weekly so I try to take him to the library too. Hence my confusion on this thread!

The Deer and the Earwig is the penultimate book in the Songbirds scheme so he is doing well with his phonics decoding.

I would be rich if I had just a penny for every time I've listened to a child read it