Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

No sausages or ham sandwiches at Christmas party

115 replies

MaggieW · 08/12/2010 08:17

Help, I need some perspective on this please.

DD, Y3, and her table have had to plan what they want to have to eat at their table for the class Christmas party next week. Five out of six children wanted ham sandwiches and the little party sausages, but the teacher said that these weren't allowed because there is a Muslim girl also at the table and she can't eat pork. I am quite taken aback by this as I would have thought if you can't eat something for some reason you don't, but it shouldn't prevent the others from having something they would like. In previous years there's been no restriction at all. What do others think please?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

PrettyCandlesAndTinselToo · 08/12/2010 10:59

On second thoughts, perhaps the teacher was trying to encourage the children to be aware of others' needs and to learn to consider them. Perfectly reasonable to ask the children to choose something that everyone could eat. But perhaps the children didn't know that Muslims don't eat pork, or didn't understand that sausages (the sort that most people think of) and ham sandwiches are pork.

Perhaps it's an attempt at a learning experience that got lost in translation. Perhaps if a range of suitable options had been suggested, pork wouldnever have been chosen.

BTW for many people pork sausages and ham sandwiches are not at all the obvious choice for a party!

thebelletolls · 08/12/2010 11:22

We don't eat pork either as we're Jewish and my ds aged 5 has never had a problem with this. He's been to numerous parties and he just asks if the sausage/sandwich etc has pork in it. There are normally other sandwich fillings available but when there aren't, he just eats more when he gets home. I would be surprised to say the least if anyone thought they should impose their dietary needs on others.

Maybe if there had been no alternative, it wouldn't be kind to this girl. I believe in tolerance and consideration, could there be a way of approaching this where everyone feels their needs are being met ? Finding someone to speak with the mother in her language and seeking some understanding with her?

Octavia09 · 08/12/2010 11:40

From all the live creatures I eat only turkey and fish. If I attend parties I would find what to eat but would not demand to withdraw some food just because of my food habbits. Some people do not eat pork because the pig is "dirty". Do they know how dirty are the chickens? Their eat their own sh*t and many other animals do the same. And birds would eat raw leftovers from other birds.

DreamTeamGirl · 08/12/2010 11:44

I can see both sides here

If they were asked to plan as a group, excluding one child from the MAIN main course is a bit mean
That said if it was just one of the many many main course options then I dont see it has to be kept off the table just because there is a muslim child there

The thing is it isnt about it being pork tho- of course all meat will need to be Halal, so unless someone is going to go shopping for Halal food and bring in chicken sausages and turkey ham its a void point

Maybe they could compromise and have their little sausages but a vegetarian sandwich choice?

FranSanDisco · 08/12/2010 11:53

I also believe anything containing gellatine can't be eaten so other party food needs to be checked for suitability. Dcs school ask families to send in their own contributions from a list. This way everyone will eat something. I don't think it's fair to exclude party food you like i.e ham sarnies but perhaps a veggie alternative can be provided. To say evryone has to have cheese is unfair for cheese loathers .

potplant · 08/12/2010 11:56

If there is only to be one main course then they have to come up with something they can all eat. Perhaps the teacher is trying to teach them all compromise - understanding of other people?

Its a party - they are only going to eat the cakes and crisps anyway, so what difference does it make?

Blu · 08/12/2010 12:02

Group planning a celebration does involve the group as a whole making sure that everyone can enjoy something - surely that was part of the excercise, planning for everyone?

Or was it voting for what I want, me me me?

Will the muslim child's choice of sandwich ALSO be included? i.e are they all ordering what they ach wnat to eat, or is it group planning of a group party?

Of course it should be ok to have a good selection including some pok products, but not nice to just leave one child with crisps and a satsuma.

And it's a fairly minor issue - no need of parents to heft thier bosoms in indignation and annoyance.

seeker · 08/12/2010 12:07

I would be very cross with a child of mine who chose something that she knew her friend couldn;t eat as the main course for a party. I would be even crosser if she was one of 5 who all chose something which left the 6th girl out.

And I would expect her teacher to tell her that her behaviour was unacceptable.

But there is a little bit of me that suspects that the OP is a wind up. It sound a bit "Christmas Trees Banned in Lambeth in case Minority Groups are Offended"

Blu · 08/12/2010 12:23

Indeed, Seeker.
PC Gorn Maad.

DreamTeamGirl · 08/12/2010 12:38

Oh I dont think thats very fair

OP Isn't heaving her bosom or shouting PC garn maad, she is asking for perspective

My first reaction was 'how silly of teacher' then when I thought for a few more seconds thought again.

Its what MN is here for to think aloud and ask for input, and I suspect the OP will take it all on board and maybe update us.

electra · 08/12/2010 12:46

Why can't you just put other fillings in the sandwiches? There must be loads of other things they would like. The muslim child's mother won't be able to be there to make sure she doesn't eat pork so the school are covering themselves imo.

Original poster

MaggieW · 08/12/2010 12:49

Something has got lost in translation - and Seeker this is definitely NOT a wind up!

The children were all asked to devise a menu of food for party including the main or savoury part of the party food - so there will be a range of items that they can share on the table. However, five out of six wanted ham sandwiches and cocktail sausages to be included but, even though there will be other savoury food available suitable for a non-pork/meat eater, the teacher ruled both the two top choices out, which is what I find hard to justify to my DD. She completely understands why some people don't eat certain foods because of their beliefs but can't see why, when there're alternatives available, that everyone can't be accommodated, given it's such a small group. I just feel it's a patronising load of PC which is intended to be inclusive but in fact seems to be having the reverse effect amongst the children.

OP posts:

seeker · 08/12/2010 12:52

Exactly. It took you a few seconds for you to think again. The OP has thought about it, talked about it, posted about it (twice) but remains convinced of her child's inalineable right to eat cocktail sausages.

DamselInDisgrace · 08/12/2010 12:57

Surely the sane thing to do in this situation would be to plan a menu as a class and have a big communal buffet. That way none of the children are marked out as a 'problem' because of dietary requirements which mean their table can't eat something the next table can. It also means they'll get more variety to choose from.

electra · 08/12/2010 13:00

Maggie - sorry to be blunt but I think you are giving this way too much head space.

It is not unusual for schools to put restrictions on sandwich fillings - peanut butter is out in most schools due to allergy suffers. Nobody says 'oh it's not fair on those who don't have an allergy'.

If the children are planning a menu together then it should mean that they all have the good grace to choose items that they can all eat. There's nothing 'pc' about that - it's just good grace, kindness and having respect for your friends - which is what Christmas celebrations should be in the spirit of imo.

If it were my dd I would not bat an eye lid. She'll eat something else, end of.

DreamTeamGirl · 08/12/2010 13:01

Thanks for the clarity Maggie.

If there are lots of choices, including plenty suitable for everyone, then taking away 2 things seems silly.

My next door neighbours are Muslim, so I always have Halal sausages and chicken nuggets in the freezer, but the Y3 knows full well he cant have meat out & about normally, as do the Hindu kids opposite (they are totally veggie), but none of them would expect meat to be left off the table totally, just for there to be allowance for everyone.

Could you do Halal turkey or chicken sausages instead of pork? They are really easy to get and actually really tasty too

ChickensHaveNoMercyForTurkeys · 08/12/2010 13:01

So, other tables will have ham and sausages, just not the one with the muslim child? Way to draw attention to the poor kid

DamselInDisgrace · 08/12/2010 13:03

seeker: I wouldn't really care about the sausages or whatever. I'd be more worried about unintentionally marking the muslim girl (and presumably any vegetarians on other tables) as the 'reason' they don't get to choose what they want and making the other kids wish they didn't sit with her. That's just horrible. I do think it'd be better to just have a communal buffet and get the kids to plan it so that there are a variety of choices to reflect the range of dietary requirements in the class.

ChickensHaveNoMercyForTurkeys · 08/12/2010 13:04

At my DC school, each child brings in their own party plate. Which is a PITA, but at least sidesteps this sort of thing.

GrimmaTheNome · 08/12/2010 13:06

I think the teacher should have quietly asked the Muslim girl if she was happy with the others having sausages and ham. Chances are she would have been.

However, it would have been nice if the other children had been a bit more considerate - I know that by this age my DD thought about the muslim and hindu kids in her class when we were planning party food.

sparkle12mar08 · 08/12/2010 13:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FranSanDisco · 08/12/2010 13:39

So the poor muslim kid is blamed for spoiling the party - yeah good inclusive policy .

LeakMyWiki · 08/12/2010 13:43

Oh I never do pork/ham at dc birthday parties for just this reason. They are too little, and I can't be responsible for policing what they are putting on their plate.

Also, it's not a hassle at all and nice for everybody to be able to eat everything.

LeakMyWiki · 08/12/2010 13:44

Same as I check nothing has nuts in, wouldn't dream of doing peanut butter sangers. And of course, school has nut policy.

jade80 · 08/12/2010 13:52

If they rule things out because one person can't eat them, what on earth would they do if a family objected to all Halal meat on animal welfare grounds?! Make all the children eat vegetarian food?!

It seems bizarre that the other tables are allowed these things when one table aren't, and agree with the person who said it is more likely to result in tension than 'equality'. Why can't the tables just share everything and have a good range to suit everyone? Would be much fairer.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5