Level 3 sats targets in year 2 - why haven't the school told us?Why do some schools hold back able kids?

[earlycomputers]

My dd is in year 2 and at a recent parents evening her class teacher gave me a list of the year 2 attainment levels for maths. There was no mention of sats or anything. I then discovered she has sats in May and so looked at what she needs to know for these tests. I am truly shocked at how little she has been taught so far just to get through the level 2 tests. She is a bright girl and she could easily be taking the level 3 tests but she hasn't been taught anything for the level 3 standard and very little for level 2 - both in English and maths. For example she's never covered division in maths or the digital clock or fractions. She's barely covered any joined up writing or using punctuation. Is this a cop out for the schools so they dont have to work as hard (ie it's less work to teach level 1 and 2 than it is 3?) Dont they have a duty to try and extend able pupils? Needless to say I have been introducing her at home to the stuff she needs to know (taking her out of school to do so so she doesn't have to do stuff in the evenings).
They wont even allow her to read harder books even though we have proved she can read to a certain level with almost 100% accuracy and comprension. Why do some teachers do this? I am seriously thinking about moving her out of the state schooling system. sorry for the long rant!

gorionine, I think people do see that more able children need more challenging work

if the OP had said that her dd is bored at school and not learning anything interesting, then she would have had a far more positive response

but she didn't say that

it is the way she links her dd's education to the SATS that seems so totally irrelevant- she seems to think that her child cannot be learning anything wortwhile if it is not linked to these tests, which were never designed for children in the first place

and the fact that she is taking her dd out of school to teach her specicifically to her SATS when surely if she is bright enough to be bored at school she could easily help her to pick up these concepts in casual conversation or playing shops

The whole point, gorionine, is that she hasn't done the sensible thing and raised it-she is keeping her DC at home on a school day to do it herself!
She hasn't come back to say if she even knows what she is doing and how she is teaching division etc.

I can't see how grammar school intentions can have any bearing on SATs. Lots of pupils go to grammar without having done SATs. My Ds won't be doing them. If he fails his 11+ and we appeal it would only be with the support of his head and the school will know his academic ability irrespective of the fact that he won't have done SATs.

Indeed - since they will immediately teacher assess him in exactly the same way as in state school Y2 (except possibly minus the test).

Do no children ever get a level 3 at the OP's school if they only teach to level 1 and 2?

"The whole point, gorionine, is that she hasn't done the sensible thing and raised it-she is keeping her DC at home on a school day to do it herself!
She hasn't come back to say if she even knows what she is doing and how she is teaching division etc."

I agree that it is a very bad idea to keep the DD home (unless of course making the decision to HE). What I was trying to say is that in some schools, it is really an issue that bright children are not given challenging work and they are kept working at a level that makes school really boring for them. It is to easy to say things like "schools do not hold children back, why would they?" They certainly do not do it purposely but sometimes, they do hold back some children, maybe because of lack of training or resources in certain cases, I am no expert but if a parents really thinks that their child is more able I agree they have to fight their child's corner. OP might go about it the wrong way but if people generally assume that if she wants her DD to carry on progressing at the rate she is able to she is a horrible mum (the feel I get with posts saying ?your poor poor daughter?) it is not surprising that she would actually try anything .

Mollie O, I do know of a couple of situations where KS1 & scores were taken into account when trying to determine a child's 'academic potential' and suitability for Grammar school. This happened after a child marginally failed the 11 plus.

Of course they were part of a much bigger picture, including headmaster's report etc, but nonetheless they did make up part of that picture.

It seems to me that KS1 scores matter rather more than I'd like them to, sigh. This reason isn't the main one.

That should read KS1 SATS scores were taken into account when trying to determine a child's academic potential and suitability for Grammar school.

If they are holding her back gorionine she should raise it with the school and get them to give more challenging work. Based on the information given by OP I would think 'poor DC'-but if she came back with additional information I might revise my opinion but she hasn't answered my questions.
I don't see how the KS1 scores would be any use for grammar school, unless the DC had shown great potential at 7yrs and then gone badly downhill in the juniors.

Pisces, they were trying to ascertain whether the DC in question was above average academically. Speaking about the case where I knew the child personally, the child was 'average' at KS1 level. They got an average KS1 grade.

This was not helpful in proving that the 'borderline' child was 'grammar school material' and deserving of a place unfortunately.

Many really clever DCs don't do very well in KS1 SATs. All I can see is that if they did very well and then failed 11+ you could try and make the case that the school had failed to teach to her potential.

I completely agree.

Sats results do not determine a child's future. A university or future employer will not ask to see a child's KS1 sats results.

The OP seems a bit over anxious...shouldn't parents relax a bit a remember that much of children's learning is from life and play?

We do little with our children at home because - if they're left to play - they read, make books, play 'school' and learn loads.

Poor modern children...we were so unsophisticated when we were little; no homework until secondary school, lots of playing and projects and we all went to Oxbridge.

Did no one else here get into a state about KS1s? I know I did . Maybe not as much as the OP, but even so.... I know loads of people in RL who were coaching their DC up for them.

Coaching for KS1 SATS! That is totally bonkers!!!!

I don't know anyone who actually paid a tutor for them - though I guess that some people will. But why do you think you can buy KS1 past papers on the web?

So that parents can boast to their friends that their little Johhny got a level whatever instead of being honest about their child's true ability.

Sop glad mine don't do SATS as sil is very lke this, always trying to compare her dd's results to what my dd does.

I'm trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt here, and assume that she's misunderstood what SATS are and got herself into a panic.

OP, what do you think SATS are for?

My understanding is this: SATS are not like GCSEs or A-levels. They and the ongoing assessment that teachers undertake throughout the year (every year) are not there to test children as such - they are there to make sure that the school are doing their job and to identify room for improvement (both for pupils and teachers).

If you feel your dd's school isn't stretching her, then you need to address this with them. However I also get the feeling that you need to get a grip relax a little.

If, after approaching them rationally and listening to them you feel the school can't give your dd what she needs, then look for another one.

For goodness sake though don't keep her off school - not yet - that's madness!

In the meantime, support the school and the work they're doing with her - remembering that your dd is 6. She might be a genius, but forget trying to push, push, push her - instead spend time with her fostering and developing interests in ways the school are less equipped to do.

Help her (subtley, please) to understand mass and volume by doing a bit of baking. I'm sure you could get some division in there easily enough. Talk about the seasons on country or city walks. Help her writing skills by encouraging her to write to her grandma. These things, the things I expect you're doing already, are far, far more beneficial than pulling her out of school and they are not "work" so no need to feel bad about making her "do stuff in the evenings".

Me too elphabadefiesgravity we are in Wales so don't have SATS and the end of KS assessment is very downplayed.

My SIL was very eager to tell me that her DS had done well in his SATS and was clearly wanting to know how DS1 had done. It was lovely to be able to say that we don't bother with them in Wales!

When they set in Y3 on KS1 results and teacher assessment at this time I can see why parents get anxious.

In our school the sets rarely move, by the teachers own admission. It's simply too difficult and too much of an administrative nightmare to make too many changes in Y3 and beyond (v large primary). Self fulfilling prophecies can begin.

Whilst I still hear from teachers that they can tell who the clever ones are, those destined for the grammar school etc, as early as reception and year one etc then I'll continue to be concerned.

My son tends to rise to the average of any group he is placed with over time. I'd rather these were higher achieving children rather than those with lower attainment. If the 'system' was fully flexible, as it should be, I wouldn't worry at all.

I would challenge and keep on top of any decision if I thought it unfair. Most wouldn't for lots of reasons.

Did no one else here get into a state about KS1s? I know I did blush. Maybe not as much as the OP, but even so.... I know loads of people in RL who were coaching their DC up for them.

No - the children are only 6!

The teacher assessment is reported in Wales in exactly the same way - it's just not backed up by a test, domesticsluttery.

I know Feenie, but the main difference (from what I can see) is that a lot of parents at my SIL's DC's school in England got incredibly het up about the end of KS1 for about 6 months beforehand whereas I have never heard a single parent at my DC's school even mention end of KS assessment.

From my perspective it feels as if KS1 SATS are labeling and judging your child. They get a classification, a mark, a score, a label at that time.

They are either below average, average or above average and that's a label that for the most part will probably stay much the same for most going forward.

A very able child at KS1 that slides to a below average position by KS2 is not the norm etc.

We're both in England - my SIL was completely worked up about SATS, her dc did a lot of work towards it (in class and at home).

Ds otoh didn't even know he'd done KS1 SATS. I think it varies a great deal between schools.

I have no idea about KS1 results, but KS2 results are significantly better at ds's school than at dn's. I obviously had to check these as SIL's bleating about her dc and her dc's school being "academic" against my ds's clearly inferior intellect and education had started to grate somewhat