What are my options with this?

[LublieAva]

DS is in year 2 and his teacher is a NQT.
He is good at maths, but its not surprising as both his parents are good at it too (I have a degree in pure maths and DH's job uses a high level of applied maths).
At the end of last year - year 1 - Ds's teacher classified him as being at level 2b for maths (which i know is nothing special - although its pretty high for DS's school).
DS has been using my pc to play games etc and some of the time he is actually working on a maths website. I sit with him sometimes and I can see that he picks concepts up fairly quickly.

Then 10 days ago, DS came home and told me that he did some maths worksheets at school. Most children managed one or two, some managed three. However, DS went through 8 (and the teacher was surprised, congratulated etc etc).

I help out in the school and I can see that the teacher has a very wide range of abilities across all subjects with quite a few children who are struggling with year one work. So it must be difficult for the teacher(especially as she is inexperienced)?

I asked for a meeting with the teacher last week and I explained that I wanted to show her what DS does at home. (I happen to know that what he is doing at home is level 3 work but i didn't point it out - I just showed her what he has done - the work includes all aspects of maths, not just arithmetic.

The teacher's response was to say:-
Teacher: X needs to slow down. he works too quickly.
Me: Do you mean he is not reading the questions properly?
Teacher: No he reads them properly.
Me: Well is he getting the answers wrong?
Teacher: no he gets them all right.
Me: I don't understand?

At this point another teacher (who I think must be a supervisor for DS's teacher) cut in to say that what the teacher is talking about is technique. They explained the technique in question. However the next time Ds worked something out in his head, I asked how he did the calculation and it involved using exactly the technique the teacher was talking about.

What can I do?

I explained that my concern is that DS will coast through this year and learn bad work habits that will be a problem later when the work is more challenging. The tutor nodded and agreed that this is a danger.

I suggested that maybe the teacher could set work which I would do at home with DS - his writing is weak for example and there is no plan in school to work on it. However my suggestions were just greeted with silence and then I was ushered out.

I was doing my best to not upset them. I said i understood that he is just one of thirty and that the school could not make a special case for my child. But I see a problem in the making and they seem to agree with me, but won;t do anything about it.

Finally I asked if the school had a more-able child policy and if I might be given a copy. This caused both of the teachers to pause and look at each other and then the older one said "of course, but the HT may well want to be involved in letting you see it".

Apart from change schools - which I would if there was a decent school with a free place, but there isn't - what can I do so that my son actually learns some maths in school this year?

If the answer is that there is nothing, then please tell me.

Lucie, to be fair I should have mentioned it. I am still trying to get my head round how different the school systems are.

I really should just learn to keep my nose out!

The thing is although I would like to avoid a confrontation at the margin (its not as though its exactly fun!), I am not worried about what they think of me, per se. I mean in business, I meet all sorts of people and I am not phased by dealing with teachers or a head teacher.

The problem is that when I step away from the school, having presumably told some home truths that the HT would rather not hear, I still have to leave my children there the next day.

I don't think that anyone would deliberately target them or anything (and if they ever did I would be relentless in dealing with it so they would regret it), but what if my son steps out of line one day? Will they cut him any slack or will it be a case of consulting the rule book to see whether they might make an example of the child?

LublieAva, what a dreadful time you've had with HT, she sounds like the original Trunchball.

Putting the request in writing and if that yeilds nothing what about a second request in writing and cc to LEA.

I think that the fact you are unhappy with school issues, then your son will pick up on this and it will be making him unhappy and sensitive

From my experience in schools the teachers have set targets that they need to achieve each day and it doesnt often include extending one child beyond the requirements for the year group. Most teachers will or recommend sideways extension so that the more able fully understand every single step of the way.

You mention that he does sums in his head, but he will fail paper tests if he does this, and the marker will assume he doesnt know the answer so any "gifted" skills will not be identified.

As a parent we know that the answer is all that matters, but for schools, testing, etc, they must see that students fully understand the stages before they move on.

There is no point in one child doing harder work than the rest of the class, it demotivates them and makes them stand out - most kids dont want this, they want to blend in.

Are your DS strengths in all aspects of maths, or just particular areas? You could focus across the whole curriculum and develop his knowledge in other areas.

Whether you get the report or not wont really make a difference. If they have a policy to do something they would be doing it and chances are he hasnt shown in the classroom that he stands out from the rest of the students.

Good luck, but it might be worth looking at alternative schools, you need to be happy as well as your DS.

he is in year 2. we are talking about adding 7+8 or 100-63, not proving euclid's theorem. Once you know what the answer is, then you know it.

He pretty much takes to all areas of maths and he did stand out when in Y1. The Y1 teacher (who was nearing retirement rather than a NQT)mentioned it at various stages through the year and talked about it in his school report.

I'm not fan of the head, and so far I'm not enjoying watching a NQT learn on the job. Teaching must be one of the few jobs where a new graduate goes in at the deep end, taking on responsibility for a class full of children, in the same way as she will d=be doing in 20 years time.
Any other career i can think of involves easy work at first with increased responsibility matched to increased competence. I actually just feel sorry for NQTs in general and my son's one in particular. It must be hard enough trying to keep order in the class and teach something, without being asked to differentiate the work by ability.
So maybe I should leave it, but for how long when its my son (and his 29 classmates) who have to bear with her as she learns a few class management skills.

There is so much emphasis on mental maths and calculation of basic number facts in primary. Many teachers confuse a proficiency with this with mathematics.

Have you introduced more complex concepts to you son? I showed DS the basics of topology and knot theory. On a very basic level it's fun and interesting irrespective of ability.We also have lots of puzzle books which keep DS busy. If your son grasps any new concept very quickly, then he probably needs moving on.

I agree 7+8 is a learnt fact, a bright child will learn it, know it to be constant and will have no interest in explaining how he reached his answer. Esp a child who is eager to move on to something more challenging.

What about getting a totally independant assessment and showing the school, might work? You probably know as well as any expert where your son is working, but someone trained in teaching primary, will be able to match his skills with the levels.

topology along with real numbers still strike fear into my heart from my university days!

he found some pages on the internet on factorisation recently and now he is very interested to learn more and anyway he's got a lot of algebra to do first so I think this is years away. Meantime, I'd rather he got word perfect on his times tables first. Still he can tell you all the factors of 24 or 36.

He is no genius, maybe he won't even turn out to be all that clever by the time the A-levels come around. He is just a bright little six-year old boy who happens to have an aptitude for maths and who has heard his older sibling praised for intelligence down the years and now he has set his sights on taking the lead. So there is some natural ability but there is also hard work and determination.

I'm not expecting the school to do advanced mathmatics with him, but at least if they could ask him to add 455+687 instead of 7+8, then he might not fly through the work (which would keep the teacher happy).

I meant more about looking at topology in terms of babies and blankets! We looked at diagrams of taurus shapes and did some research on the internet. No number work though, strikes fear into me! We also made mobius bands and cut them in half, kids think its magic.

At the maths clubs we do the times tables with a large soft ball and play knock out games. The kids don't realise their learning.

Have you got hold of the policy. Really hoping your HT will come to her senses.

no the Ht hasn't handed it over yet. I expect she's forgotten (either deliberately or accidentally.)
I am going to drop off a written request this afternoon.

Good luck LublieAva. I'm off in half an hour to run a club in my son's old school. It's fun actually and I enjoy it but on bad days I feel very sad that they made no provission for my son

maths club! There's nothing like that at my son's state primary.

I hand-wrote a gentle reminder for the policy (then photocopied it) and gave it to the school secretary. If she ignores again, then I will type a formal letter. and if she ignores that too (although I think she won't) then I'll contact one of the governors for assistance.
But i don't think it will coem to that. I think I'll get the policy and find out whether my son qualifies or not (in my honest but amateur opinion).

The letter did the trick - I got the policy by email this afternoon.

The only problem is, there isn't a policy as such. There are two policies and neither are about what the school specifically does for more-able or gifted and talented children. G&T gets a one line mention at the start of one of the documents that says that the school caters to all types of needs, including G&T.
The rest is about how they teach the children by class but set work and targets by individual need, which seems contradictory to me, but maybe someone can explain how that works in practice?

There's no definition for G&T, but it does say that they will, if necessary, teach a child above their key stage. My understanding from the standard literature the school has given me and other parents is that levels 1&2 are KS1, levels 3&4 are KS2. However, the government website seems to say that a normal distribution of children would be on level 2 and level 3 at the end of year 2.

Right now I can't see where to go from here, apart from resort to plan b and teach DS myself at home, leaving school to do what they please with him.

Does anyone know where I can get a complete list of all the skills a child has to be able to demonstrate to complete the NC level 2 in Maths (and in English)??

Hi - okay - say you have a yr 3/4 mixed class.
Their numeracy lesson is about shapes 2D/3D shapes.
The teachers should do a starter (10mins) about what they are going to learn about and the targets (ie: recognise a range of 2D shapes (less able) and recognise a range of 2D/3D shapes (more able).

So if they are following a Maths scheme book, then after chatting about the different shapes, they might have to find various dhapes out of a box of wooden shapes or use mini whitebaords to draw 3 shapes etc.

Then complete an exercise in their books (tables groups into sets (square table might be really able/circles may be the least able children etc).

Then they come back to the carpet at the end (another 10 mins) to chat about what they've learnt. So the teacher might ask Child A (less able) can you tell me the name of a 2D shape. Then she might ask Child B (very able) to give her the name of the sides of a 3D shape. Child C (less able) how many corners does a cube have. Child D (more able) to tell her how many faces a cuboid has. This is called differentiation and a good teacher should be able to teach a class of very mixed abilities in the above way. So the topic is the same but the levels are different.

Hi LublieAva,

If you have a look at the TES website (teachers site) You can join and download resources. I use progression in levels 1-5,its very good, it means you can see very easily what levels he would be on, you might find your DS is working in L3 in some areas and L2 in others. Iv'e got it downloaded in excel but can't find a way of beaming it over

If you join you can search all the teacher uploaded resources. If you can't find the levels guide, try searching APP mathematics and something will come up. Alternatively search progression in levels 1-5 on your browser and then log back in to TES, as their search bar/tool thingy is useless!

I agree with lucie, differentiation does occur, but it rellies on the teacher really having a good understanding of each child's abilities. It's not always an easy thing, in the clubs we have three year groups!

If your in the southeast we would be happy to offer the club at your school, or why not offer to set one up in DS's school

minimathsmouse - yes, the yr 3/4 I was a voluntary TA in, was a small, village class (24 max) and it was the very experienced HT taking them. Her ability to know what each child was capable of and pushing gently to challenge them was amazing to see. She had the balance off to perfection.

I have come to the conclusion you either get lucky with a good teacher who extends your child or you do it yourself. We have also had that embarrassing conversation about G and T in which the teacher directed us to look at a website as the only provision in the school! I signed my daughters (4 and 6) up to the Maths Factor in the holidays which is pretty basic, but they like, they do maths workbooks, and my eldest plays online chess with her daddy. It is a bit frustrating, though. My husband also worries about the focus on arithmetic in schools and not enough 'deep maths' as he calls it (I'm mathematically illiterate really so don't know what this means).

I think support at home rather than battle at school to get him recognised at school as G and T which he may or may not be, and they are abolishing him anyway. I wouldn't personally bother telling the NVQ that she's not doing a good job (which you kind of are), she's probably aware of that but finding it all hard going, and I have found lots of teachers are quite defensive if you do stuff at home.

You could also think about tutoring when he's older, just for fun!

LucieMule, I think it's exactly as you say, it takes a little while to assess each child's abilities and I think personality comes into it. You need to actually spend time teaching, some children lack confidence, others hide their abilities, some blag but are actually struggling! From what I see now teachers assess through APP and level guides, sats, end of yr reports from previous teachers, TA's opinion/feedback, mark a few set pieces and way-hay you have a full assessment of each pupil. Not so, not if you haven't actually directly worked with them! How can a teacher be expected to know so much about 30-35 little people in just a year! I find it takes a few weeks with just 16, and even then I am only concerned with maths.

Perhaps that is all the more reason though for teachers to actually listen to parents.

Minimathsmouse, I so wish you could set up a club in my daughters' school, I would be delighted! Sadly we have no maths club and no chess club (really very few clubs, there's a dance one where they jig about). This reflects the lack of maths expertise in the school I think...anyway, just to say I think your pupils are really lucky!

Onetoomany, I wish more schools were interested in us running a maths club. We set up a small business three years ago and it's really tough at the moment.

lublieAva Just read your post, I was in exactly the same situation with my ds. The school was not at all helpful, I was made to feel inferior. In the end, I decided the best thing was just to let him do any maths he wanted at home, and told him to just do what his teacher asked in school. However he only had to put up with that for one year, his year 3 teacher recognized his ability, he ended up being sent to do his maths work with Year 4.

Hi sorry for dragging this thread up again. How is it going with the school?

I ask as my DS sounds like yours. He came up from yr 1 a 1A and by October was a 2c and has just done a few home learning quizzes and got a 2b and 2a. . He is behind in writing and social emotional development and I'm wondering whether to approach the school about IEP's? To stretch his maths and help his poorer skills develop. He is the youngest btw so they just seem to accept the weaker areas as an age thing but I'm thinking with the higher ability in Maths this just doesn't ring true?