What are my options with this?

[LublieAva]

DS is in year 2 and his teacher is a NQT.
He is good at maths, but its not surprising as both his parents are good at it too (I have a degree in pure maths and DH's job uses a high level of applied maths).
At the end of last year - year 1 - Ds's teacher classified him as being at level 2b for maths (which i know is nothing special - although its pretty high for DS's school).
DS has been using my pc to play games etc and some of the time he is actually working on a maths website. I sit with him sometimes and I can see that he picks concepts up fairly quickly.

Then 10 days ago, DS came home and told me that he did some maths worksheets at school. Most children managed one or two, some managed three. However, DS went through 8 (and the teacher was surprised, congratulated etc etc).

I help out in the school and I can see that the teacher has a very wide range of abilities across all subjects with quite a few children who are struggling with year one work. So it must be difficult for the teacher(especially as she is inexperienced)?

I asked for a meeting with the teacher last week and I explained that I wanted to show her what DS does at home. (I happen to know that what he is doing at home is level 3 work but i didn't point it out - I just showed her what he has done - the work includes all aspects of maths, not just arithmetic.

The teacher's response was to say:-
Teacher: X needs to slow down. he works too quickly.
Me: Do you mean he is not reading the questions properly?
Teacher: No he reads them properly.
Me: Well is he getting the answers wrong?
Teacher: no he gets them all right.
Me: I don't understand?

At this point another teacher (who I think must be a supervisor for DS's teacher) cut in to say that what the teacher is talking about is technique. They explained the technique in question. However the next time Ds worked something out in his head, I asked how he did the calculation and it involved using exactly the technique the teacher was talking about.

What can I do?

I explained that my concern is that DS will coast through this year and learn bad work habits that will be a problem later when the work is more challenging. The tutor nodded and agreed that this is a danger.

I suggested that maybe the teacher could set work which I would do at home with DS - his writing is weak for example and there is no plan in school to work on it. However my suggestions were just greeted with silence and then I was ushered out.

I was doing my best to not upset them. I said i understood that he is just one of thirty and that the school could not make a special case for my child. But I see a problem in the making and they seem to agree with me, but won;t do anything about it.

Finally I asked if the school had a more-able child policy and if I might be given a copy. This caused both of the teachers to pause and look at each other and then the older one said "of course, but the HT may well want to be involved in letting you see it".

Apart from change schools - which I would if there was a decent school with a free place, but there isn't - what can I do so that my son actually learns some maths in school this year?

If the answer is that there is nothing, then please tell me.

Its funny because you would think schools would want pupils who learn easily and achieve well.. because they are responsive to being taught and they do the school credit when sent on to secondary school etc. However as far as I can, the opposite is true: they are a nuisance and definitely unwanted.

Our experience seemed to be that as DS was working at the level expected for end of year 6 SATS that he didn't need consideration.

Two of his teachers were out and out antagonistic. One teacher whispered in his ear when he was 6 years old "you might be clever, but you will never be any good at art" He came home crying

I think LublieAva you may have real uphill battle to get the school to make provission. They might not want you to see their policy because it will highlight the fact that extra provission should be made for your son. It might be that he meets the criteria but they prefer to include less able children on the list who are deemed less advantaged.

Reading tests done on the internet don't necessarily give a full picture of ability and certainly don't give a picture of the full level of comprehension needed to get a level 2b (or whatever) in an English reading assessment. Even if a pupil scores highly in a 'proper' test (eg as both of my dds always did) it really doesn't necessarily mean they are going to be prodigies!

It would be entirely inappropriate for a teacher to discuss a child's 'place' in the class and ultimately meaningless anyway. Far better to compare your child to national averages/expectations.

The 10% thing for G&T is no longer necessary in schools and again, was a silly measure anyway because one school's top 10% could be just average in a different school with a different catchment. Even cohorts within one school will vary enormously.

This seems to part of a larger issue you have with the school, having seen your comments on the head.

Having said all that, it does seem that your ds would enjoy more Maths work, so I would be inclined to keep an eye on the situation in school and continue to give him more challenging work at home IF he enjoys it and wants it.

Thanks for that, am intrigued to see how far she can get... will report back...

lublieava - I know what you mean and our school head/parents are exactly the same (perhaps it's the same school!).

The parents who have never had to front the HT think she's wonderful and those who have (like me), aren't spoken to anymore by the HT! How stupid is that.

At the end of the day, the teachers are there to teach your child and if you are keen to sort out the problem, you really must stop worrying about getting on anyone's nerves and speaking up about it. He's your child and you want what's best for him; the teachers won't remember you next year if you have a talk with them but your son could suffer if you don't.

Have you checked out the learning targets for the areas of learning on the DCSF website?

Also, when you chat to the teacher, quote 'Every Child Matters' throughout the convo and that'll shift her into doing something. Perhaps read about it online first here

minimathsmouse - I am sorry that your DS was treated in that way. What a horrible thing to say to a little boy - quite spiteful.

I feel that there is hostility towards me from the head and maybe one or two other teachers, but I don't think there is any to my children. If there was, I'd stop trying to form a good relationship and it would be WAR!!

I am not sure I could have the conversation anyway even if I did see the list and less able/ lower achieving children were on it. It would mean saying to a teacher or the head, "x child is not as good as mine". It would play straight into their hands of me being a pushy parent who needs to be pushed back.

I will ask again to see the policy. Maybe I'll just send an email to the head asking for it in a polite but casual way, but importantly in writing. Then, if she ignores me, I'll send another one a couple of weeks later with the previous request attached.

It's the Schonell reading test not terribly accurate

BelligerentGhoul - he doe enjoy it but the reason behind it is that he is competitive and wants to overtake his older sibling who is more umm..laid back but who will be crushed when the day comes that Ds is further on. For DS every new skill is just another step on the path to overtaking and so he drives himself on.
The teachers looked very po-faced when I told them this. I got the impression that they discourage competition.

(Actually this is a whole new subject and I am not sure what to do about this sibling rivalry!).

luciemule - thanks for your comments

Good idea about the policy. I would post it as well as email - then she will defo have it. Keep a copy of your letter and send it to the governors if she doesn't respond in the way you would like.

I do hope you have some luck LublieAva in writing to the HT. I asked for the schools policy 3 times, twice I was actually sat in the HT office. On all three occasions it seemed to have grown legs! No one knew where to locate the policy.

Extra work at home, what if the gap between his ability and teaching within the class widen. Will this make the school sit up? Not if they think his talent is a taught skill. We had a tutor for 6m when I was really busy. DS loved it and ended up working on practice papers for GCSE. The school still refused to take account of his abilities and differentiate his work. Twice they approached us and offered to move him up a yr for maths, twice they decided that logistically it was difficult for them.

I would say your DS is probably gifted at maths because you mention that he doesn't show working out. If maths is something that is intuitive rather than a learnt process this is usually the norm. Virtually any child can be taught the concepts and processes.

I work in schools and from talking to others, most teachers in primary are working from the principle that a quick arithmetician is a gifted mathematician. They simply do not grasp that the two are separate. Arithmetic is carried out in the same region of the brain as speech and memory, so it is a learnt process. Times tables and number bonds are an illustration of this.

That's the reading test I took when I was at school over 20 years ago! Everyone got stuck on idiosyncrasy. :)

OP I know you're feeling frustrated but don't despair yet. I remember when I was an NQT and I really felt the pressure. If someone came in asking questions like you were I got paranoid and felt like I was being criticised significantly. If I'd been asked these things a few years later I would have worked with you a lot more easily. It all comes with experience.

What I mean is that it's not a given that they think you're a pain. She might need a few weeks to let your ideas sink in, and you may find your son being stretched a lot more in class. When's parents' evening? If it's soon you can ask again and you might be pleasantly surprised. Hopefully anyway!

Do not be afraid to be a pushy parent-your DC only gets one chance at year 2-it isn't a rehearsal! It is too important to let it drift. They have to have a policy and they have to show it to you.
I am very grateful that my parents were pushy and I have been the same for my DCs. I have always been friendly and polite and taken into account that my DC isn't the only one in the class. I have never asked for anything unrealistic, so have kept on friendly terms.
The problem is that you have an NQT who is struggling to balance the whole class-she doesn't have the experience to differentiate. She must have a mentor in the school. I would make an appointment to see the Head to discuss it.
I am a teacher and would always rather see a parent early on at the start of a problem rather than let it escalate. Unfortunately NQTs are rather scared of parents-they don't have to deal with them as students. Try and reassure her that you are not 'having a go'at her, you just think that more could be done to accommodate your DSs needs.

The HT was in the playground this morning, so I asked if I may see a copy of the able child policy, preferably by email (as I don't want to have to sit and read it in front of her!). "Of course... I am obliged to give it to you with 48 hours".
So, it will be interesting to read how/ if it defines an able child and what the school policy is on educating them.

Well done-the school has to have policies on everything and they have to have them accessible.

We have gone through something very similar with my DC. The school dont/wont extend any child to their true abilities. They work on an average for the whole class, with emphasis on the under achievers.

When DC finished Year 1 the teacher gave a level of 2B and said she wasnt allowed to give a higher grade for Year 1.

DC says maths at school is really boring and too easy, and this is causing major issues with attitude, willingness to learn, enthusiasm, interest etc. I recently spoke to the teacher who said the class is working on Level 3 in the class. When I have said that DC finds it too easy her response was "Oh, well thats the level we are working on" End of conversation.

We have now given up worrying about what both DC learn at school and consider school for the social aspect only. We teach maths and literacy at home and they are both capable of working at school years well above their actual age, in all the varying strands.

We recently registered with Maths Whizz and this has also confirmed to us that DC are comfortable and knowledgeable with all the different strands within Maths.

Its interesting when you read forums about other parents experiences and this highlights the differences between the attitudes of many teachers and schools, and recommendations as to what to do might work in one school but will not work in another.

I am passionate about maths. I am not an expert by any means but my kids are much more capable than I am.

48 hours are up and there is no sign of the able-child policy even though I've been at the school six times since I spoke to the head and she has my email address.
She can give it to me by email or hard copy, I don't mind.

minimathsmouse - looks like you were right.

Now what do I do? Remind her in writing? be promised again. And then when nothing happens and I ask for a third time, be asked why is it so important to me to see it??

Lublieava - I would go into the office and ask for the policy whilst you stand there and wait. Ask if receptionist can photocopy it for you. If she says she's unable, tell her that you will be writing to the chair of the governors.

I don't mean to be rude, but you do have to be more robust/assertive with them I think. They will take advantage otherwise. A good HT would have given you the policy on your first request. It is your right to see all of the policies they have. Are they not on the school website?

If they still won't budge, tell them that as well as writing to the chair of govs, you will copy in Ofsted. That shoudl do the trick .

If HT asks why it's important for you to see it, tell her you and your husband would like to see it and say it's regarding your son. You don't have to tell her why if you don't want to. She knows you're allowed to see it; she's just making it hard for you.

Lublie, I am so sorry that you are upset and worried. Yes, 48 hours are up but it could drop into you in box at any time or come home today in your DS's bag.

Please don't despair. Follow up your request with a phone call to the school office asking them to remind the head teacher of your request and tell the office you will also be putting it in writing.

If it hasn't appeared by the end of the week you can always make an appointment to see the head teacher.

I don't think it has to be anything sinister or a massive conspiracy. She has possibly forgotten as she will be approached in the playground by a number of parents every day.

I've had problems with this HT in the past. I posted about them but under a different user name. My other child's teacher was doing something that was really not ok by anyone's standards.
I was nice about it. I assumed the HT didn't know and would want to deal with it. She said all the right things ... yes it was unacceptable. "Yes", she said, "it was completely against school policy" etc. She arranged a meeting for later that week to resolve it all. Then she postponed the meeting, never re-arranged it and nothing happened for several weeks until she sent me a letter that said it was all resolved - when nothing had been done at all!
I realised that she wouldn't do anything and decided to hold my breath for the end of the school year and a change of teacher. So I didn't react at all.
But that wasn't good enough for this HT. She knew she'd failed and she knew I knew it and it seemed to bug her. So she started to try to make my life difficult as a parent. She made it impossible for me to continue with the PTA and she even took me into her office to complain at me because she'd heard that over coffee with some other mothers I'd said that I thought schools should be more open with parents about who is teaching their children (I wasn't even talking about her school, just schools in general). I fought back on that occasion because it really was none of her business and she and no right to tell me what to think. However, something snapped in me that day and now she knows that I'll fight if I have to and I know that she's capable of vindictiveness.

But again, she seems to be testing me by not handing over this document. Obviously its going to be fun when I get to the next stage of actually trying to get something done about setting my son appropriate work.

I called round all the local schools to try to find places, but with no luck. the recession has forced many families to choose the state sector where they would previously have used private schools and so all the schools are full, or only have a place for one child. Apart from anything else, the school's educational attainment is weak and as my children progress through the school I can see why: a child who is of average ability gets an education, the weaker children get a little extra help but the stronger children get nothing at all. A little boy in my son's class (not my son)is bright but he play up all the time. The teacher's view is that the only problem is his behaviour and she ignores anything the mother says about how it would help his behaviour a lot if he and something else to do - such as be set challenging work.

Lublie, some local authorities will intervene if things have got to this stage. They will also offer mediation where you can sit down with the head teacher and a mediator to discuss your concerns.

Confrontation is the last thing you want I'm sure. My suggestion still stands, make a phone call, follow it by a letter and wait.

If there is still no joy I would phone the LEA.

Am so sorry to hear of all your troubles.

The governors though jobettany are the ones who make sure that the school is abiding to policies and rules as it should do and tbh, I would go to the chair of the govs first than the LEA as it's a bit less confrontational and is probably the correct order in which to make complaints etc. Then if the govs don't do anything, then the LEA.

Sorry lucie, I'm in Scotland and we don't have governors.

Oh okay - I see.