What are my options with this?

[LublieAva]

DS is in year 2 and his teacher is a NQT.
He is good at maths, but its not surprising as both his parents are good at it too (I have a degree in pure maths and DH's job uses a high level of applied maths).
At the end of last year - year 1 - Ds's teacher classified him as being at level 2b for maths (which i know is nothing special - although its pretty high for DS's school).
DS has been using my pc to play games etc and some of the time he is actually working on a maths website. I sit with him sometimes and I can see that he picks concepts up fairly quickly.

Then 10 days ago, DS came home and told me that he did some maths worksheets at school. Most children managed one or two, some managed three. However, DS went through 8 (and the teacher was surprised, congratulated etc etc).

I help out in the school and I can see that the teacher has a very wide range of abilities across all subjects with quite a few children who are struggling with year one work. So it must be difficult for the teacher(especially as she is inexperienced)?

I asked for a meeting with the teacher last week and I explained that I wanted to show her what DS does at home. (I happen to know that what he is doing at home is level 3 work but i didn't point it out - I just showed her what he has done - the work includes all aspects of maths, not just arithmetic.

The teacher's response was to say:-
Teacher: X needs to slow down. he works too quickly.
Me: Do you mean he is not reading the questions properly?
Teacher: No he reads them properly.
Me: Well is he getting the answers wrong?
Teacher: no he gets them all right.
Me: I don't understand?

At this point another teacher (who I think must be a supervisor for DS's teacher) cut in to say that what the teacher is talking about is technique. They explained the technique in question. However the next time Ds worked something out in his head, I asked how he did the calculation and it involved using exactly the technique the teacher was talking about.

What can I do?

I explained that my concern is that DS will coast through this year and learn bad work habits that will be a problem later when the work is more challenging. The tutor nodded and agreed that this is a danger.

I suggested that maybe the teacher could set work which I would do at home with DS - his writing is weak for example and there is no plan in school to work on it. However my suggestions were just greeted with silence and then I was ushered out.

I was doing my best to not upset them. I said i understood that he is just one of thirty and that the school could not make a special case for my child. But I see a problem in the making and they seem to agree with me, but won;t do anything about it.

Finally I asked if the school had a more-able child policy and if I might be given a copy. This caused both of the teachers to pause and look at each other and then the older one said "of course, but the HT may well want to be involved in letting you see it".

Apart from change schools - which I would if there was a decent school with a free place, but there isn't - what can I do so that my son actually learns some maths in school this year?

If the answer is that there is nothing, then please tell me.

I did a reading age test on Ds a few months ago (when he was 6.4). The result was 8.2 years.
At the same time, I did the test on my ofther child (then age 7.11) and the test came back age 15. They are just good at reading. Its nice but I know it doesn't mean that they are a good bet for getting 1st class honours!

yes, i see why its important. I don't know if he is putting his workings down or not but I'll talk to him about it tonight and make sure he knows it is what he ought to do.

As to the able child policy, shouldn't parents be abel to see any school policy, even if it does not apply to their child? Some schools even put their policies on their website. I was careful to make clear in the meeting that I was not claiming that DS is a more able child. (though of course, as you can see above, that's what i do think if it is based on a 10% rule).

this is just a guess, but I don't think any child has been identified as more able (apart from one child who left year 6 last year). What reason could there be for this?

You would think it would be something an Ofsted inspector would notice, would't you?

Why does it matter so much to you to see the policy, unless you really mean you want to see the criteria and argue why your son should be on the list? Some schools don't put children onto this kind of list in early years because the hierarchy of who's in the top 10 per cent changes with different development rates.

As others have said and you admit yourself, he's bright but not exceptional. So why should they set him extension work?

To get a level 3 in maths requires the ability to answer 2 stage questions. The teachers may be concerned that someone who works this quickly may not be able to get that when the time comes.

And the teacher may be NQT but, with respect, she has a lot more experience than you do. It sounds like you went in there all guns blazing, tbh, given you say you backed them into a corner. Bullying the NQT won't make you any friends, so calm down and leave it now, at least until after half-term. You're preparing for a problem that doesn't even exist yet (is he falling off course / misbehaving / coasting NOW?).

Sorry but I really do think you over-reacted.

Lizipads.. askign about the able child policy was me groping in the dark for some insight about what the school will do when my son has already covered and mastered the work he is being set (in maths). What I want is for him to not to fall into a trap of coasting. he likes learning and I don't want that to be allowed to wither.

I didn't go in with all guns blazing. I tried very hard to be open. I just showed them what he has done at home (else how would they know?) and asked the teacher if it was true what DS had told me about how he does the work so quickly.
The rest of the conversation result from the replies and the point where they were backed into a corner was when the tutor said something that was provably untrue.

I don't get this wait a few months thing though. Its been a month already and its only a new teacher, not a whole new school. She has had all summer to prepare for this and a month already with the children. The school year is only about 30 weeks of teaching, so time is passing. I wasn't expecting much until now, but I am expecting the class to start learning stuff from now on and there's no point raising a flag in January or March as too much time will have been lost.

maybe i need to go back to the drawing board with this one and say it differently:-

"I suspect my son's school is not going to try to teach him anything new in maths this year. What can I do, apart from change school?"

Having suffered the same issues for 5 years, I fear the only answer is to teach him at home. The problem with this is that he will always be (at least) one step ahead of school and still be coasting in the lessons.
I admit to leaving workbooks lying around, which DS does when he feels like it, but

I only "teach" if he asks questions.
Now in year 5, he has finally been given some homework he hadn't already mastered and was supposed to show workings.
Watching him work, I could see that he was only showing workings when he needed to, most of the time he could carry the number in his head. I would argue they need to give him (and your DS) some HARDER ones, so that he NEEDS to show workings.

Otherwise it is like asking a child to sound out words they already know.

choccyp1g - that's what DH says I ought to do too. Its probably what i will do, but it will be hard to find the right balance so that he gets time to play or go to beavers etc

And I didn't suggest waiting until January: I suggested waiting until after half-term and take another view.

You have aired your concerns with the teacher. She didn't give you the answer you wanted to hear at the time but surely it would be reasonable to let her think about it and then follow up in a few weeks?

If you're doing maths with him at home, then it might be easier just to let things lie at the school and put it down to some years will go more smoothly than others. Especially as your concern is only about one area of the curriculum and he's not struggling. If it were the other way round or a problem acrss the board then I think you'd have something to worry about.

Couldn't the school give him some writing to practise when he has finished the maths sheets? And I don't see why they can't give him more difficult maths too. But school is such a minefield. I would maybe speak to the head: don't worry about making a fuss; I have been too worried about that in the past and it has not helped my dd.

whatever the reasons, a good teacher (or her assessor/mentor if NQT) should be ablt to differentiate work for less and more abled children. If your DS was in a YR1/2 mixed class, then she would have to do quite a bit of differentiation.

Although it's nice that you do numeracy at home with DS, in school time, he should be challenged with appropriate work for his level and if they are just being lazy and letting him coast along, he risks getting bored with numeracy altogether.

I would ask to chat with the head and mention all the valid points on here (maybe write them down to take with you so she doesn't fluster you) and say you would like her to make sure DS is being taught apppropriate work for his level.

And yes, getting him to do the same work but with bigger number, more complez shapes etc,will be the best way to help challenge him and is the easiest way for the teacher to structure her lesson planning.

doesn't look like a very responsive school, is there really no alternative school available???

thanks Luciemule. I am hesitating badly about going to the head because she has never done anything in the past to help any parent who has come to speak to her about their child. Her view is that its a wonderful school and if you have experienced a problem, then you are attacking her and the school and she will repel you.

Its a small school and I know quite a lot of the parents now. We are in two camps: those who have never crossed the head and who think she is the sort of person who would do anything to help the school and the children, and those who have had a problem in the past who know that we are just asking for trouble if we ask the head for help.

I was really hoping to resolve this at classroom level because there is no hope of a happy solution once the head gets involved.

I've got school pick up in a few minutes and I'm even nervous of going to the school in case those teachers have told the head that I was asking about the able child policy!

dikkertjedap - there really isn't. All the schools for miles around are full, especially for my year 2 child (apparently 2004 was a high birth year)

H.e,is probably a really positive avenue for you tbh - I do it with ds3-its not about locking yourself away from the world a home educated child probably has more 'social opportunities' than a schooled child.

IME, expectations are very very low in the state sector. Our options are:

a) do stuff at home
b) pay for education
c) let them coast

We did a mixture of (a) and (c) with DS1. He's now at a selective independent secondary school with very high standards and he's working very hard. I don't think any long-term harm has been done, and he did learn lots of valuable social (and other) stuff at primary.

Unfortunately your ds is very inconvenient, ime they won't do anything (because as you correctly identified, they have neither time nor resources).

LublieAva, slight hijack/getting off the point or whatever you want to call it (sorry) but you mentioned a reading age test that yours did; can I ask which one and how you found it? Would be very interested to see how DD would get on after a lot of nonsense with her teacher last year. Thanks.

i found it on an internet search. I think i used one that i'd seen a teacher discuss on MN. Let me check back on my internet history and try to find it

I can find the test but not the name or internet link. Here it is:-

tree little milk egg
book school sit frog
playing bun flower road 12 6.2

clock train light picture
think summer people something
dream downstairs biscuit shepherd 24 7.4

thirsty crowd sandwich beginning
postage island saucer angel
ceiling appeared gnome canary 36 8.6

attractive imagine nephew gradually
smolder applaud disposal nourished
diseased university orchestra knowledge 48 9.8

audience situated physics campaign
choir intercede fascinate forfeit
siege recent plausible prophecy 60 11

colonel soloist systematic slovenly
classification genuine institution pivot
conscience heroic pneumonia preliminary 72 12.2

antique susceptible enigma oblivion 76 12.6
scintillate satirical sabre beguile 78 12.8
terrestrial belligerent adamant sepulchre 84 13.4

statistics miscellaneous procrastinate tyrannical
evangelical grotesque ineradicable judicature
preferential homonym fictitious rescind 96 14.6

metamorphosis somnambulist bibliography idiosyncrasy 100 15

The numbers in the first column were just a word count. the second column is the reading age if your child gets 100% to that point

You don't help or use any body language to tell the child if they have got it right or wrong. Then you go through and count the words they got right.
If they get say 36 words overall correct then they have a reading age of 8.6

(i think the formula is:-
reading age = no. of words correct/10 + 5

Hi LublieAva,

I really do understand where you are coming from. Have been in a very similar situation with DS1. Two levels ahead of peers from R-Yr4. No provision made. We showed them work from home in yr 1. Promises were made and broken. Moved schools, school refused to offer the higher level tests but admited that they had no idea what level he might be working at.

He was bored senseless and his teacher lacking confidence in her own maths. She was petrified of DH and I as we run maths clubs! We eventually got 2 independant assessments. The teachers shrugged their shoulders, we were prevented from seeing the G&T list/policy. His last teacher said she though he might be on it but wasn't sure.

I can understand how you feel, it is so frustrating. I always got the impression they thought DS1 was "privelidged" to have two parents that could help him. I did a lot of research and it transpires that the G&T scheme was developed to help stop middle class children leaving the state system. Carrot and stick. However if you look at the targets that are sent to G&T lead teachers from Dept of schools and famillies, the target is for more children on free school meals and children from minority backgrounds to make up an ever greater pecentage of the cohort on the list in each school.

I wouldn't worry too much about the G&T inclussion as its target setting with the very specific target of raising aspiration within certain groups of disadvantaged children.

We home Ed now, DS aged 9 working at his IGCSE in maths, would reccomend it