support thread - friendship skills and popularity - sign in here if this is a struggle for your DC or you.

[lingle]

I would appreciate talking with others who are trying to deal with their DC not being particularly popular and who are trying to improve their DC's friendship skills without being "needy" about it.

Ds2 is 5. He had very delayed language which affected his social skills (they thought it was autism for a while but I don't think this would be suggested now). His language is ok now (except when dealing with kids with very sophisticated language skills).

positives:
he has a superb loving relationship with Ds1 (7.6). Ds1 says DS2 is his best friend.
he has lots of opportunities to play with four neighbouring kids at our and their houses.
he has identified 3 friends in reception. One in particular is his favourite. They are in different classes but sit next to each other at lunch, etc. The friend is coming to our house today.

but when the teacher was handing out the big pile of party invitations at the door this morning and pulled back when she saw us, I wanted to cry.

unfortunately, my mum (lacking support of mumsnet!) taught us to be needy and resentful when not invited/not popular. She accosted the parents of children who didn't want to play with us and made a fool of herself. This made us more isolated and less popular and our social skills got even weaker.

I think it's my childhood experience of isolation, rather than any unhappiness DS2 might feel, that's making me feel so whiney! I fear repeating the pattern, and setting a vicious circle in motion. I also know the only way to ovecome it is to improve DS2's confidence and social skills, and that this can only be done by helping him experience social success. I know I have to stop letting other mums know that I mind so I don't drive them away - I have to talk to people away from the school.

phew! guts spilled. other stories please :)

should add that DS2's big brother (who also had language delay) is now immensely popular, and sought-after as a friend by children and by their parents. He spots playground injustices and makes the other alpha-males give the unpopular kids another chance. He also seems to learn from earlier social mistakes really well and quickly. I'm in total awe of his social skills.

so it's hard not to compare him and DS2 all the time in terms of numbers of invites, reactions of other kids, etc.

I too have a DC 8 who is really popular (who is also a bit stand offish though) has numerous play dates and party invites a month. and a DC 4 who is not popular (is extremely friendly, chatty and confident). I hate seeing party invites going out it makes my heart sink every time although it doesn't seem to bother my DC. I have found talking to parents of DC2 classmates extremely difficult and so haven't made many play dates, I think this hasn't helped with his popularity. With DC1 the parents of classmates were fab so I was able to help initially with friendship making, and help continuing friendships as if my child asked to have a friend back I was able to ask the parent. (I have found that if they play with someone at school if they then come back for tea it in someway cements a better friendship).

I was a very very shy child (something I am so pleased I grew out of) and I remember not knowing what to do in certain situations, how to make friends etc. I really didn't want my children to be like that as I don't remember school being the slightest bit fun. I want my childrens childhood to be fun and full of laughter.

I am sure we all worry far too much about this stuff. I think we look at it from an adults perspective and it isn't at all what a child sees. The child sees the invites going out knows who's birthday it is thinks I don't play with them and gets on with what they are doing. We on the other hand go home and worry for hours about it.

thanks mungo8 - getting that story from someone else is helping me keep perspective.

I think I just need to add "be social ambassador" to my "to do" list.

I was just about to post about the same thing! My DS1 is 5 and just started Year 1, and since starting Playgroup he has not received many party invitations and is often left out when they are being handed out. He doesn't always seem to cotton onto it but it breaks my heart.

I can't understand why he doesn't get invited, even children he plays with regularly don't invite him to their parties! I know I am biased but he is a lovely boy, although he can be a bit self righteous and a stickler for rules, so this may get on some of the childrens' nerves! I have tried to be friendly with a lot of the mums, although I find it hard because I am low in confidence, but it doesn't make any difference.

"he is a lovely boy, although he can be a bit self righteous and a stickler for rules, so this may get on some of the childrens' nerves!"

snap! and all the more reason why they need to practice those social skills, hence our anxiety!

have you tried inviting other kids over ilovehotchoc?

Ds2 does have a best friend at present - ie another reception boy who considers Ds2 to be his best friend too - but it took a lot of courting of the mum on my part!

I haven't really encouraged playdates tbh, mainly because I have another DS, and also I am quite antisocial(!), and by 3.30pm in the afternoon I can't face having another child around and having to mind them and sort out battles etc while making tea etc, its hard enough with my own kids! Do you think it would help then?

He did have a 'best' friend but they have grown apart over the summer hols which hasn't helped. He does talk about a lot of the other children, particularly boys, who he plays with. I just wonder if a lot of its onesided, and it makes me sad.

He does boss his younger brother around quite a lot and we tell him not to if we catch him at it, but maybe I need to work on finding ways to show him it hisn't his job to tell other children off at school, and how to play with other children without dominating them.....

Sorry I've hijacked your thread!

"I am quite antisocial(!)"

snap again. I've been much more sociable over the last few years for the sake of the kids (language delay = social skills problems = you have to do lots of work to help them develop skills) but it really doesn't come naturally to me. Dh fell in love with me because I was so independent and "different". It's natural to me to have a restricted social of close friends (away from the Dc's school) then in the playground hover quite happily on the edge of various groups - I always have someone to talk to if I want.

But funny isn't it, that I am happy being fairly antisocial, but want my boy to be the life and soul of the party - or that should be parties!

But to answer your question - yes I think playdates help. you have to put a bit of work into them so child has a great time even if your child doesn't behave perfectly.

"work on finding ways to show him it hisn't his job to tell other children off at school"

I think a policeman stage is normal at 5. I do remember having to say to DS1 at this age "I'll do the discipline thank you" when he got too eager to tell other kids off.

Ds2 has reached the unfortunate stage of wanting to tell on other kids a lot and he also wants a defined unchanging group of friends.

Mmmmm maybe I need to make more of an effort then. I am not sure how people perceive me, although I've got a feeling I can come across as being a bit aloof and disinterested because I am fairly quiet. Although I would say I am quietly confident, it depends on the situation I'm in and whether I feel comfortable. I am a SAHM and sometimes I feel quite isolated so it takes a lot of effort on my part sometimes to talk to people. I feel shyness can be easily misinterpreted. Maybe its because other mums don't know what to make of me, that DS doesn't get invited to things? On another thread someone said that a lot of mums tell their children who to invite/not to invite to parties based on the parents!

As a mother of older DCs (youngest is 9), I can say that playdates definitely help.

I also never found this easy (still don't), but friendships have definitely been formed and children have settled in to new schools as a result of this effort.

And once they get to a certain age they sort it out themselves mostly, which is quite a relief! (I still feel awkward calling DS2's friends' parents at weekends, even though I know them quite well.

One thing that struck me, though: I'm surprised at how many of you mention invitations being handed out in school. I know lots of schools refuse to do it precisely because of the upset it can cause, and others will do it but put invites into book bags.

Might be worth bringing up with the HT or class rep.

I have 1 dd (7) who isn't especially popular, and never gets any invites. She's a bit like me I think, in that she can amuse herself very well and sometimes chooses to rather than play with others! I work 4 days so playdates are not easy to arrange - I don't know any of the other mums well, plus on my free day (Friday) I must confess I'm not keen on having other kids round.. plus I'm not the confident type and find it hard to approach people.
We do have a close circle of friends (mostly outside our area), and dd gets on well with their kids.

Yes I'm afraid selective invitation-giving does go on, but again as the children get older they make their own choices. (Although I suppose if the friendship hasn't been cultivated from early years it's less likely to blossom subsequently, with some exceptions, obviously).

I think that can depend on the school and mix of individuals who happen to be in each class, though; I've seen classes where there's a strong 'clique' and parties are held exclusively for children of mothers' friends; and others where the children are clearly calling the shots (which can bring its own problems also!)

lol at bringing it up with class rep.

I'm the class rep!!!!!!!!!!! All part of the strategy I had to pursue - it forced me to get to know some mums in the school nursery.

I must say that, much as I've always been backwards in coming forwards as regards making friends, I've always viewed having DC's friends around as a respite for me - they run off and play, and unless there's argy-bargy for me to sort, I can get on with my own stuff with minimal interruption.

Good for you! Then you're ideally placed to make this a mission!

Hi Lingle. How are you doing? Does DS2 like school?

Re the invitations: Was DS2 the only one not to get one? It can be quite hard to see invitations going out and your child not get one.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that it may have nothing to do with his S/L issues that he was not invited but that it was not a whole class party.

Some schoolgate parent groups are more difficutlt. DS2's was much less chatty than DS1's and it has taken until Yr1 for me to get conversations out of the ones I did not previously know. Keep persevering

ds is 7 and rarely gets any invites, I have found it very, very hard to deal with.

I avoid many of the other parents now who would have been my friends because I have heard them say things about ds. Cearly no one has to be friends with him, but sometimes a little compassion would have been good.

On 2 occassions parents have rung me up to apologise for the way they have treated ds. What good does that do - it does not undo the hurt.

They are not bad people any of them, but they have made me a lot less confident in my social dealings with them.

Goosey, that's awful - why are they saying things about your DS?

Usually because they are thoughtless and don't know that he is there. If I am honest, I hate them for it - I try not to, but I do.

I have two dd's. Dd1 is 10, and is becoming quite good at making friends. She has a small close group of girls. Often she has fallings out with them and makes up. I do not worry about her socially.

Dd2 is 7. She has always struggled to make friends with other children. In nursery, reception and Y1 I put it down to her young age and immaturity. Now she is in Y3 and I do think that she should be able to mix better. She spends play time wandering around on her own, and seems to be quite content to do so. I cannot see her changing. When we do playdates her friends are more interested in playing with dd1. I do worry about dd2 but I think that she is happy, and that is the main thing.

Goosey Loosey I am sorry.

hi poshpaws!!!!

yes, he likes it - he says he likes it more than nursery. he is pretty hilarious - sits there waiting for his friend to come in but then doesn't mind the friend going to the other classroom (they are not together which will hopefully force the little bugger to be more sociable).

I totally agree this isn't about his S&L issues. Of course his social skills are immature but fundamentally it's about me! and my upbringing! and my neediness! I will overcome, but it is definitely my weakness! Why, I don't know, since my own independent nature is what attracted my lovely DH :). Anyway, I'm sure he wasn't the only one not invited.

It's like out of the special needs frying pan into the normal-social-interaction fire.

how is your son getting on in year 1?

what's wrong - I can't raise this as class rep. Can you imagine the conversation? how needy would I look?

oh and poshpaws, you simply would not believe how popular DS1 is now. Can't believe he was struggling socially a year ago.

Well, I did think that might be your reaction - fair enough.
Could you mention it to the teacher in private, maybe? It might not have occured to her that this is clunkingly insensitive - you could be the one to (sensitively) point it out?!

DS2 loves YR1. He had a much more settled start to this year than last year.

He still plays a lot with the girls. It was often the case in Reception that he has been the only boy invited to a girl's party . But he is beginning to play the stereotypical 'boys' games too.
It's great, isn't it, when you can see real change and development when they have started at such a disadvantage.