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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Unaccountably cross at thought of Year 2 SATS

54 replies

sydenhamhiller · 15/09/2010 20:33

DS has just started Y2 and there is a meeting next week about SATS.
I knew there were/ are SATS in Y2 and Y6, so surprised at myself for feeling so grumpy about it...

He is doing OK at school academically, his Y1 report said he was 2a for numeracy and 2b for literacy (DS won't 'do' cursive script so marked down from a 2a). He is quite reticent with his peers and I worry more about his social and emotional development than his academic progress...

I guess I am not really sure what the point of this assessment is? Is it just a way for schools to measure achievement internally, ie comparing Y6 and Y2 results? Do these results 'count' for anything?

They are so little, I feel cross at his lovely lovely SE London state primary class being judged and found wanting....

Can other MNetters put this in perspective for me :o) Thank you...

OP posts:

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RoadArt · 15/09/2010 20:40

Are children really marked down for not using cursive writing? I thought that as long as the writing was clear and written in a layout expected of the year group then this was acceptable?

Maybe I am wrong?

What about those schools who dont use cursive, the results need to be comparable?

mrz · 15/09/2010 20:43

He doesn't need to do cursive to get a 2A

RoadArt · 15/09/2010 20:44

Going back to your original question, a lot of schools dont pressurize the kids into learning how to pass the SATS exam, others will spend weeks and weeks doing practice tests and really pile on the pressure.

IF your school really is a good one, then chances are they might just do the test on the day. They probably have to advise parents of whats expected.

The results are meant to give an overall picture of every child so that an average picture can be built of all kids at the same age.

Sadly the results are used to manipulate targets and for lots of other wrong reasons.

cory · 15/09/2010 20:47

It is not about your ds being judged and found wanting: the SATS are about judging the school. Are they teaching the children effectively? Are there weak areas in their teaching (e.g. are their maths results consistently weaker than their literacy)? And do the children end up, at the end of SATS year, where you would expect them to be given the intake? Or, contrariwise, does the school achieve better results than you might expect given the intake?

I expect my ds to do very badly in the KS2 SATS, but then the SATS are not about him. They are about whether the school is teaching him and his friends in the best way or not.

Feenie · 15/09/2010 20:52

SATs are very low key these days - we don't even have a meeting about it. It's just teacher assessment, like in any other year of school, the only difference being that in Y2 the assessment has to be backed up by one test (along with many other sources of evidence) and the results of the teacher assessment have to be reported to parents and the LEA.

Raodart, it doesn't matter how much pressure a bad school piles on for a test - so many other factors have to be used for the teacher assessment, and if the result of the test differs from the wealth of evidence then it's not the test result itself that would stand.

The same teacher assessments are used continuously in Reception, Y1, Y3, Y4 and Y5. It's fine.

Snowquartz · 15/09/2010 20:54

I have no idea what they're about. DD had them last year and I only knew when we got her report at the end of the year. I asked her about it and she had no idea that she'd sat any sort of test or assessment.

Panzee · 15/09/2010 20:57

They only exist as a stick to beat schools with. Get grumpy if you like - I do! But don't worry about your son being judged. :)

brimfull · 15/09/2010 21:01

my ds just finished yr 2 and there was no pressure/talk anyhting about the sats
I was unaware they even did them.
There were levels stated on his school report that's it.

WHy the meeting ..and so early??

Eddas · 15/09/2010 21:05

my dd has just started y2. We had a class meeting on mon and she explained that although the children do a test they don't know it's a test. In our school she said the children are taken out of the classroom in small groups to do the test but not under strict exam conditions or anything, obviously they have to do the work themselves but they try not to make a big deal of it.

She said they are designed to give the school/government a guide as to where a child is now so that when they do the next set they can see if they've progressed in the right way as individual children.

try not to worry, I don't think your ds will even know he's done an exam

Niecie · 15/09/2010 21:09

In my DS's school the children aren't even aware that they are being tested which is as it should be in Yr 2. They didn't tell the parents and DS1, when he did them 3 yrs ago (doing Yr 6 stats this year) showed no signs of having had a particularly tough day.

I am not sure about the worth of them for league table purposes because so much else is important is rating a school, not just a test result. However, I think some sort of testing is necessary to monitor pupil progress. I am a parent gov. at DS1's school and I am amazed how closely they are monitored and all pupils do stat style tests at the end of each academic year. Again, no big deal DS1 didn't know he had done his yr 5 ones. The measure of the value added in the juniors is measured against the Yr 2 stats (although the juniors do a baseline assessment at the beginning of Yr 3 too). It is important because they are able to focus teachers and resources at the pupils or subjects that seem to be having trouble and I don't think that is a bad thing.

Yr 6 tests aren't new. I had them 30 odd years ago but probably we are all more aware of things now.

taffetacat · 15/09/2010 21:12

Due to a problem with oversubscription, our school was streamed from Y1 onwards last year. eg. In DS's year there is now a Y3/2, a straight Y2 and a Y1/2. SATs and assessments make a difference here now - massively. The children are also judged on social and emotional development. From the age of 5, ffs.

Don't get me started.

Original poster

sydenhamhiller · 15/09/2010 21:22

Ahhh, thanks everyone! I know I sound defensive - but not worried about son being judged, felt cross at the thought of formal assessments for 6/7 yr olds.

But having looked at the national curriculum etc, and looking at your comments, it seems like it is quite low-key.

Thnx for feedback.

OP posts:

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 21:43

"on, our school was streamed from Y1 onwards last year. eg. In DS's year there is now a Y3/2, a straight Y2 and a Y1/2."

Which is rubbish, however you slice it. Whether the means of assessment is SATs, teacher opinion or flipping a coin, it's still rubbish.

motherinferior · 15/09/2010 21:45

Move to Catford . The kids have no idea they're doing SATS at our place. Come to that, neither do the parents most of the time.

taffetacat · 15/09/2010 21:47

tokyo - rubbish is a very nice way of putting it

I have been quietly seething all summer

PinkCanary · 15/09/2010 22:20

I'm seriously considering taking SATS week as our annual holiday!

DD has just moved into Y2 but as I'm a Childminder I had 2 children in last years class. It was emphasised that they would be sitting tests, and that they should ensure they all got a good nights sleep and had breakfast so they'd be able to concentrate hard. I mean... WTF!!! they were 6 and 7.

I was livid and they weren't even my children.

Fennel · 15/09/2010 22:30

I'm totally opposed to SATS on principle, and did consider removing my dds from school for the KS2 ones. But actually, it's so low key in our school, at KS1 they will do one test but not realise it's a test, and the teacher assesment overrides it anyway. If they don't realise they're doing a test, and don't know the results (I didn't tell mine their KS1 results), then it's not actually very stressful

dd1 is coming up to KS2 sats now and dd3 to KS1 sats, originally I planned to take them all to the Amazon jungle for a few months, but it seems overkill for something they barely notice and don't mind doing.

kim147 · 15/09/2010 23:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feenie · 16/09/2010 07:03

Sorry, Kim, but I am a bit at regularly taking Y2 children out for Maths/spelling tests. It's not necessary with robust teacher assessment. What on earth is a 'normal' Maths test in Y2? Why so much testing?

IndigoBell · 16/09/2010 08:19

Here's the other side of the story. It's all well ang good if your child is doing fine and if you school is open and honest. But that is not always the case.

My school continually insisted that dd was doing fine although I knew she wasn't and the school had put her on the sen register because she wasn't doing fine.

At the most recent parent teacher interview they told all the parents (that I talked to) that their kids were doing fine. End of year we get our key stage results and several kids ( including mine) got 1s. Which means they are not working at the level that the govt expects them too.

For most parents this was the first they knew that their child was not making the expected progress. If my school had not had to report this these parents would never ever have been told.

Now I strongly think that parents have a right to know if their child is not doing well. And IME sats is the only way you can guarantee that schools will tell you this.

brassband · 16/09/2010 09:07

the kids who don't realise they are being tested must be pretty thick!
At our school numberlines are covered up, the children are seated so they can't copy each others work and not allowed to chat

IndigoBell · 16/09/2010 09:18

Brassband! My DD was definitely allowed to use a number square in maths. (She can't do anything without one)

She knew the other kids were doing a reading / writing test - because she was taken out of the class and told 'everyone else is doing a test which is too hard for you ' :(

Fennel · 16/09/2010 09:23

Lol, I prefer to think of dd1, who didn't seem to notice KS1 sats, as 'dreamy and uncompetitive' rather than thick...

Our school gives us those grades at the end of every year on report. So you would know at the end of each year how they are doing compared to national average if you wanted to look it up.
and if your child is in the remedial groups in reception and yr1 they tell us, though they don't quite put it that way, they try and make it sound like an exciting new club with fun froggy characters.

Feenie · 16/09/2010 09:28

They shouldn't notice because the activities in the test should be no different to normal classroom activities. None of the Y2 children I taught ever had a clue, until the the authorities, in their wisdom, decided to put the word 'test' on the front cover a few years ago.

mummytime · 16/09/2010 09:34

"The kids who don't realise they are being tested must be pretty thick!
At our school numberlines are covered up, the children are seated so they can't copy each others work and not allowed to chat"

My very bright daughter didn't realise!

Why? Because they do lots of practise, the number line disappears for a while. They use old test books, lots do more than one test. And it is very like normal school, not that unusual.

My eldest didn't know back in the bad old days, but then they practised by playing at being Victorian school children. In fact his comprehension was instructions to make something, and the teachers had to photocopy it as half the class wanted to try it at home.

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