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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Unaccountably cross at thought of Year 2 SATS

54 replies

sydenhamhiller · 15/09/2010 20:33

DS has just started Y2 and there is a meeting next week about SATS.
I knew there were/ are SATS in Y2 and Y6, so surprised at myself for feeling so grumpy about it...

He is doing OK at school academically, his Y1 report said he was 2a for numeracy and 2b for literacy (DS won't 'do' cursive script so marked down from a 2a). He is quite reticent with his peers and I worry more about his social and emotional development than his academic progress...

I guess I am not really sure what the point of this assessment is? Is it just a way for schools to measure achievement internally, ie comparing Y6 and Y2 results? Do these results 'count' for anything?

They are so little, I feel cross at his lovely lovely SE London state primary class being judged and found wanting....

Can other MNetters put this in perspective for me :o) Thank you...

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motherinferior · 16/09/2010 09:38

I should probably point out that my daughters did rather well in the tests they weren't noticing they were being tested on.

Eddas · 16/09/2010 09:41

brassband, rather than children being 'thick' don't you think its actually about how the school handle things? Yes if the numberlines are covered etc etc i'm sure most children would realise something is going on. But from what I can understand in my dd's school the children are taken out of the classroom to sit the test so would you still consider those children 'thick' for not realising?! They regularly go to other rooms in small groups to do work so actually they would just see this as another normal group task.

I actually feel very strongly about you having called 6/7 year olds 'thick' how rude

Niecie · 16/09/2010 09:52

Oh brassband what an uncharitable thing to say!

The children were meant not to notice. The teachers put a lot of effort into making sure they didn't notice. We were told at parents' evening that it would be very low key. I wasn't about to tell my DS he was going to be tested so how would he even know what a test was? The only one he had ever been aware of having done before was a spelling test which is not the same at all.

My DS1 got his fair share of level 3's too so hardly thick

brassband · 16/09/2010 14:11

it was a tongue in cheek comment.I didn't mean it nastily!

domesticsluttery · 16/09/2010 14:22

You could always move to Wales?

DS2 has just gone into Year 2. He is still learning through play and we don't have SATS. It is lovely.

Especially lovely was when overly competitive SIL came to stay not long after DS1 and her DS had just finished Year 2. She spent a very long time telling me how wonderfully he had done in his SATS, and then asked how DS1 had done (she seems to think that because her DC go to a posh school in Richmond and my DC go to a country bumpkin school in Wales my DC are automatically thick). It gave me great pleasure to just dismiss the question with a "SATS? Oh we don't bother with them here..."

Feenie · 16/09/2010 15:52

But you still have the teacher assessment reported at the end of KS1 and KS2 - there just isn't the statutory need to back it up with a test, and the judgement would be a whole level at level 2 (e.g. level 2) instead of a sublevel (2c, 2b, 2a).

Your SIL meant Y2 teacher assessment - she wouldn't necessarily know how her ds did in the test (the vast majority of schools don't report a separate test result because a)they don't have to and b)it's unnecessary.

bruffin · 16/09/2010 16:14

Mine did ks1 them when they were proper tests, and even then it was low key.

Waves at OP, used to live opposite Wells Park

squashpie · 16/09/2010 16:16

Where I am tutors for Common Entrance and 11+ ask how the DC did in SATS. If they don't get 2as or 3s they don't get taken on by these tutors, yet these are likely to be the kids who need tutors (and not just b/cse they are "thick" but because of large class sizes/ ineffectual teaching and so on). So it's not just for school assessment.

emptyshell · 16/09/2010 16:37

Latest word was that cursive script isn't even needed in Y6 SATs to get the max 3 marks for handwriting anymore. I can't remember the exact wording of the guidance given without finding where the heck I've put my very battered markscheme - but I do have it written down in there somewhere from the marker training day. It's something like fluency and consistency is what's being looked at - not joins. They did seem to change what got top marks for handwriting quite a bit this year though - seemed loosened up a great deal.

I do tell the story to kids about why I have handwriting I hate now (I'd kill for beautiful "teacher writing") - because as a stroppy 8 year old me and my best mate refused to do what the school demanded in terms of handwriting styles and sat there doing stupid loopy as, love hearts over our is... all that stuff just to annoy the teachers - and some of it became really bad habits that were so hard to break. Both me and my partner in 8 year old stroppy crime both went into teaching!

emptyshell · 16/09/2010 16:40

And squashpie - I tutor (not for 11+ etc) and, while I'll ask what levels kids got in their end of year reports - it's purely so I can have some idea in my head of where to pitch an initial lesson (and often I end up explaining these a b c levels to parents in the process). I don't refuse kids who might be seen as less able - indeed I'd say 3/4 of those I'm currently tutoring are in this category (the others I tend go get are just a confidence thing).

Lizzylou · 16/09/2010 16:42

Great, DS1 has just gone into Yr2, he seems to be doing well but his teacher is off a lot, this week and part of last week already. They only went back last Monday!
She has a very good reason but I can't help thinking that the school can't really be bothered about Yr2 Sats if they put a Teacher in charge of that class that they knew would need a lot of time off?

Feenie · 16/09/2010 17:23

But how would they know that?

Lizzylou · 16/09/2010 17:27

Feenie, because it is a longstanding issue, can't say much more as don't want to out myself/anyone.
They knew she would need more time off, same as last year.

I don't just post stuff like that for the sake of it

Feenie · 16/09/2010 17:29

Fair enough - I only asked!

Lizzylou · 16/09/2010 17:31

Sorry Feenie!
Just overtired boys driving me mad.

I knew she'd be off for most of September in July, the school before that.

Lizzylou · 16/09/2010 17:32

It's the face, makes me go all defensive.

domesticsluttery · 16/09/2010 17:33

Feenie: SIL seemed to know how her DS had done in his SATS.

Maybe SIL and MN are a rather skewed sample of parents, but there seems to be a lot more pressure and stress surrounding KS1 SATS than the end of Foundation Phase assessments in Wales.

Feenie · 16/09/2010 17:34

Ah well, September is over halfway through. She'll be back before you kniw it, shouldn't affect much really. I wouldn't worry.

Feenie · 16/09/2010 17:36

at Lizzylou.

Bet she meant his teacher assessment - lots of MNers and even teachers still call them SATs - look at the thread title!

Feenie · 16/09/2010 17:37

Sorry - that last bit was for domesticsluttery.

CardyMow · 17/09/2010 23:34

God I wish they were so relaxed about Y2 SATS at my dc's primary. They sit them in rows, all the dc know they are doing 'important tests' and get very stressed out about how well (or not) they will do. And poor DS2 has muscle probs, and can barely form letters, despite being able to do lvl 2 maths and english perfectly well, orally. He just can't write any of it down. And due to having no statement, he won't get a scribe, either. I hate SATS. Have not had great experiences of them, for any age group, even my very ahead DS1 when he was in Y2, was really pressured, because the school wanted him to get lvl 3's to bump up their scores, and he was worried he'd 'only' get lvl 2's. . ANd DD in Y2, who was not made to do the SATS and 'hidden' in the league table as basically not existing, they did the same to her in Y6 SATS too, as she didn't get a lvl, so they claimed there was one less dc in the yr...long story!!

IndigoBell · 18/09/2010 08:17

Loudlass - bloody hell! Sounds like a terrible school. How on earth did they hide DD in the league tables? (Only asking 'cause my school did the same thing - said no-one got a level 1 when I know 2 kids (including mine) did)

BTW you absolutley do not need to have a statement to get a scribe for exams.

Is your DS seeing an occupational therapist?

Feenie · 18/09/2010 08:54

The only way they could do that, Loudlass, is to not have her on roll in the first place - so not even on the register. All the data and tables are created by the DFE - schools have no part in them whatsoever.

amidaiwish · 18/09/2010 09:07

DD has just started year 2
we had a class meeting last week when SATS came up
the teacher said she takes out small groups, 6 at a time and they sit and do individual work, ie tests. she said they seem to like the attention and get some sweets when they're finished.
they happen over a 2 week period.

i think that's the right approach imo.
i also think it's good to hear what level they are reaching on a national basis, not just vs their classmates.

IndigoBell · 18/09/2010 09:12

Feenie. I know they can't do it.

But they absolutely did send a letter home with the KS1 SATS statistics broken out by boys, girls etc. And it said that no one got a level 1.

I'm assuming the statistics they sent home was not the data created by the DFE. I'm assuming there are some real statistics somewhere else - but as KS1 SATS aren't published anywhere I will never be able to confirm this.

When would you have to be on the roll to be included in the stats? On the day the grades were submitted to the LEA? (ie the day before half term in the 3rd term?)

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