4 year old got outside school gate today to car park

[Triggles]

I am extremely upset as when I went to pick up my 4yo DS (on his 3rd day of reception), the teacher told me that he had gotten out of the school gate from the playground and into the driveway and carpark, which is laid out so that about 30 feet to the left is a major busy street. I am absolutely livid, as:

1 - we were told the reception children didn't go into the main playground but played in a separate more secure playground. (which I'm now being told is not correct, that they play in the main playground for about 45 minutes at lunchtime)

2 - the teacher made great pains to state that the reason this happened was because he (DS) opened the gate and walked out, which the children are not supposed to do, and that "none of the other children have a problem with this rule" so now he has to sit/stand with one of the dinner ladies that monitors the playground during this time and hold their hand instead of playing. (rather than simply locking or monitoring the gate instead )

3 - I told his teachers (2 of them, they job-share) that he is a runner and will need extra attention until he is clear on the rules of where he can and cannot go. And that the first week or so would probably be the worst as he would be feeling a bit "exploratory" (isn't that pretty much common sense??) in a new surrounding. The teacher today said "well, we don't have enough staff to monitor him 1 on 1".. well, okay, then LOCK the stupid gate or monitor the GATE when they are out there playing.

I was very clear with her that I was not happy with the situation, especially that he was put in danger. She also mentioned in passing that on Friday he had made for the gate... (nobody told us about this!) shouldn't this have put them on guard about him and the gate so that today's incident shouldn't have happened??

I just get absolutely ill thinking about what could have happened... what if they hadn't found him in the carpark?? There is a main entrance directly to the road right there (in fact, he would have had to cross the small road by the carpark, which has limited view, so cars coming from either direction wouldn't see him until they were right on top of him. And another entrance on the other side of the carpark (it's a small carpark and he could be across it in a matter of minutes) that is always open as well, so he'd be out and lost in an unfamiliar neighbourhood. of course, there's the obvious concern about getting run over by a car as well.

I'm thinking of speaking to the head tomorrow and telling them I am not happy with this situation. The teacher thinks that he should be holding hands (for 45 minutes??) with the dinner lady on the playground and not playing tomorrow and then they are going to put a sign on the gate to remind him not to go through it. Personally, I think the gate should simply be secured during school hours and unlocked at beginning and end of school day, just like the other pedestrian gate. This is just a little wooden halfgate that is only closed by a shoot bolt. Doesn't this seem a more reasonable option??

I am also concerned that they are quick to point the finger at a 4 year old, rather than the fact that their lack of supervision allowed him to get to the carpark. Yes, he needs to be warned about safety, but it's his 3rd day.. and he's 4... and it's an insecure gate which makes it unsafe IMO...

I also question whether or not they advised the dinner ladies on the playground that he was a runner and a concern. I suspect not, as the teacher stated that they have NOW been warned. I'm so angry!!!! And I don't feel confident AT ALL in their ability to keep my child safe.

Any opinions or suggestions would be helpful, as right now I am simply to cross and freaked out to think clearly.

Flipping heck .

Our school is very hot on security and I have never heard of anyone getting in or out who shouldn't. No way is it your child's fault. They need to lock the gate, they had a warning of what he might do on Friday and he was not watched. How long was he out before it was noticed he was missing. I would be livid.

massivemammaries not all children develop at the same rate. Some four year olds will need to be told specifically not to go out of the gate to get the message. Going out of a gate is hardly ASBO material at 4.
OP have a look at the gate tomorrow.It may be a safety gate but may have been not fastened properly by the last parent.

Our school yard opens straight onbto a main road, the gates are usually closed but never locked and are occasionally standing open. There is one teacher in the yard watching all 80 odd pupils. They can run all round the school from the yard but aren't allowed to do so, they have to stop at the corners.

Funnily enough all the kids understand 'Don't run round the school' and 'Don't run into the road'.... even the 4 year olds

I think it's perfectly fair of them to point out that all the other kids can follow rules without added measures in place.

DS1 has jut started school, he's barely 4 and was a runner when he was younger... but he's able to behave himself appropriately now and follows the rules the same as the other children.

And as for the abduction scaremongerers.... surely the best way of preventing that scenario is to make sure the child knows he should stay within sight of the adult supervising him at all times, whether that be a teacher or a parent.

Surely locking the gate is a fire risk anyway?

Yes the school are to blame but your child does need to realise that he has to behave at school and simply telling the teachers he is a runner (ie doesnt obey the rules) doesnt make it ok for him not to listen.

Most 2 year olds wouldn't open a closed gate and go through it onto a road! At 4 years old they should'nt be doing this.

I will say it again - the school is at fault, unquestionably - but so are the parents.

I am always confused by these threads. Our school has recently had building work to increase security so that the only access tot he school is via reception and you have to be buzzed in. Prior to that whilst the gates were locked during the school day there were times when they weren't - probably kept open until about 9.30am, opened at lunch time to allow some staff cars to leave, it wouldn't have been impossible for a child to sneak out via the old reception office. But there has never been an instance of a child 'escaping'. Whilst I agree that they have a duty of care, clearly in the majority of cases the arrangments were OK.

It's not rocket science to secure a gate so that an adult but not a child can open it. You don't have to lock it. I thought that was common practice.

It seems very probably to me, that a 4 yr-old might decide to wander out of school. I think, though, that I am still not very disciplined as an adult. I've never really totally bought into rules for rules sake - and can well imagine a child trying this and justifying it somehow.

Ah but that is the Holy Grail of education - the unquestioningly obedient child..... (wandering of topic).

Do most schools have all access routes to the playground locked? I have never been to a school where the children are locked in. If the front door to the school is not on the roadside then parents and visitors need to enter the premises via the playground. There is always some way in or out. Children need to be taught responsibility for their own actions, not locked in. If a child so wishes to escape they probably could from most schools. I don't lock the garden gates when my dd is playing in the garden, I have taught her that she needs to not go out of it.

Massivemammaries surely this is developmental. At 2most will go out of a gate, at 4 most won't, but not all. I don't agree that the parents are to blame. However I do think that the OP should have spoken to the Head before phoning Ofsted and had a good look at the gate herself, just to make sure it is indeed unsafe.

@cornsilk .... No, I think at 4 the ones who would open a gate and run away, are either indisciplined children or have learning difficulties (in which case, special measures are required)

If you describe your child as a "runner" at 4 years old, you really mean "disobedient and actually we don't believe in discipline"

I disagree.

I disagree with massivemammaries too. A four year old cannot be 100% relied upon to do as they are told, and it is not difficult to put a lock on a gate. Some children are more disciplined than others but you have to allow for those who are prone to a moment of madness. Safety should be the school's top priority.

DD's school has locked gates between 9.15am and 3pm ie 15 minutes before and after drop-off and pick-up. There is a buzzer through to reception and you speak to someone to identify yourself before you are buzzed in. I am quite happy with this arrangement. There is no fire risk as the grounds are large and there would be plenty of space for all to stand in the open air but within the gates.

, this is my worst fear for dd2, our school often leave gates open, they promised me when dd2 started all gates would be shut (she has ASD and runs), on her first day i spoted a gate open .

All school gates/doors should be secure and closed. Having them open means anyone can get in and any child could get out.

I would be very if i was you.

It's unacceptable but simelar has happened at both my kids primary schools. Both were missing for half an hour and found near their homes, both involving crossing main roads and one past open water. The mothers were obviously fuming..

First of all, I don't believe that "runner" immediately equals disobedient and actually we don't believe in discipline." (oh, and by the way, it's UNdisciplined, not INdisciplined)

We DO discipline him as often as necessary and he is not simply allowed to run loose. He simply is one of those children that wanders a bit, mostly in new environments, until he is quite familiar with the rules and boundaries. He is just turned 4 in the end of July, and we are still trying to teach him road safety and he just doesn't quite get it yet, although he is getting there slowly.

We have recently put a lock on the rear garden gate, but not because of any problems with DS attempting to open the gate. It was simply for security in general. He hasn't attempted to open or go through the garden gate, as he has had time to be familiar with the rules when he is out in the garden. The first week or so that he was in the garden when he was a bit younger, he did try to open the gate, but he was told no and removed from the garden immediately (thus losing play time outside) for a short time so he would learn the rules.

He did the same at the preschool when he first started - tried to wander off when they were in their outside play park, but once he knew the rules (after a week or so), he was fine.

I contacted Ofsted for advice as I wasn't sure what the appropriate course of action was, as I felt it was a safety issue. I spoke to a male on the phone who told me that, based on the situation, it was best for them to take the details and forward it on to the LEA for follow up, as in his words the school has a duty of care to keep him safe and this situation should be looked into. Okay. I told him that I was planning on speaking to the head tomorrow and should I wait until I speak to them first, and he said it was fine to give him the details now, and then still speak to the head myself to see if we can sort it at that level. That way if there is a further problem, it's on record somewhere.

I would say that if we were a month or two into the school year, that yes, he should know the rules by then and it should be less of a concern. However, this is DAY THREE of his reception year. He has never been at this school before. And the gate he went through is the one that parents go through at any time of day to avoid going through the office (where people are SUPPOSED to go through). We have seen parents leaving the gate open and children messing with the gate during the school day (when we went for a small orientation meeting during the school year). We walked in through this gate after some other parents (while children were playing on the playground) and didn't see any adults/teachers near the gate and weren't questioned at all as to why we were there.

My main concerns are:

• the ease in which he got from the playground to the carpark
• how long before he was noticed missing or out in the carpark
• at what point did the playground personnel spot him? and did they see him themselves or were they told by other children that he had left? (shows level of inattention IMO)
• the level of punishment aimed at DS
• the inappropriate level of understanding of a four year old in wanting to put DRIVING SIGNS indicating NO ENTRY on the gate, thinking that "surely he could understand that"
• not ONCE did they say "We're sorry about this".. it was all his fault according to the teacher
• no incident report was written up at all
• there were indications that he wanted to test the gate on Friday and not only weren't we told, but knowing this, they still did not keep a closer eye on him today
• we have seen that gate open on a number of occasions - how can we be certain he will be safe there?
• the teacher seems to think that a simple sign will keep him in...

Personally, I think the best approach would be:

• an upgrade in the closure on the gate, so that it is more difficult for children to open
• better monitoring of the gate area during playtimes
• more reinforcement to DS (both by us and the teachers) that the gate is a "no go" area

I don't think this is unreasonable - it makes the area safer in general, keeps children safer, and reinforces the rules to DS so that he becomes familiar with them (while still safeguarding him until he IS more familiar with them).

I think it's important also to point out that one step outside this gate (literally!) is a road/car park with a limited view, which means any child that steps through that gate is at risk immediately. You would have thought just for that reason, they would either increase the security of the gate or monitor it closely when children are out in that area of the playground.

Oh, and as for the fire risk, the playground is large, and there is plenty of room to congregate all the students in the playground away from the school in the open air if any risk of a fire (in fact I believe that is what the plan is in case of fire).

agree with the person who said that in "our day" schools weren't locked and barred

at my primary school which, incidentally, led basically onto the A23, there was one small gate. unlocked.

during playtime we had to stay behind a line painted on the ground

no-one had an issue with following this rule.

clearly the school in question hasn't had a problem before with children going out of the gate.
so.... while I agree that the playground supervisors need to be more on the ball and aware of children near the gate, I do think that the parents and the child need to bear some of the responsibility.

I am sorry, but a 4 year old KNOWS damn well that if they're told not to go through a gate then they don't go through it.

It seems that discipline is a dirty word these days and in this blame culture, parents don't need to take any responsibility for how their kids behave.

Why should they when they can go trotting off to Ofstead and the LEA?

when I was a kid, if you did something bad, you got told off, the parents reinforced the schools' authority instead of trying to undermine it.

I find it nauseating how precious parents can be with their kids these days

Triggles you say that you have mentioned your son's likelihood of 'doing a runner' in two separate meetings with his teacher. Were these general meetings in which the teacher was meeting 29 other sets of new parents (each expecting her to remember the specific wishes and needs of their own child) or individual meetings because your son has special needs which make this necessary?

Ha ha ha, MassiveMammaries. We look forward to how well behaved your child turns out to be. (Am guessing your baby hasn't arrived yet)

How can you be so judgey. The 4 year old in question might have only just turned 4 on Aug 31 and is now in a totally new environment (not all schools have nurseries so he might not be used to the place)

Yes, his parents will be encouraging him to be well-behaved but a very young child in a new environment may be totally bewildered and completely terrified (assuming he's not got special needs) How would we know he has special needs. He may have all sorts of issues but will be unlikely to be tested for them in his first few days at school.

OP - you need to speak to the Head first thing in the morning. Children shouldn't be able to get anywhere near a busy road. The school are "in loco parentis" and so should give your child the same care and attention that his parents would give him.

good guess Nonno .... I have 4 ..... eldest in juniors , youngest is 2 .... they are by no means perfect, but they do behave and even the 2 year old doesnt run off

Whilst I am very surprised the gate is not secured, I think you need to make sure your son understands why he shouldn't wander off/attempt to do a runner. He should also know basic road safety by the time he reaches reception.

Proposed "punishment" by school disproportionate and not helpful.

FWIW I did a runner from school at least 3 times when I was in Infant 1 - got home twice, major roads notwithstanding.

gingirl - these were individual meetings with the teachers, where they wanted us to let them know about our child - any concerns, any questions, and such.

As far as general rules, he is quite good about most rules. But in a new environment, he just wasn't sure of the boundaries, IMO. Again, I point out that this is the same gate that they have us bring the children out of every afternoon when we pick them up (as they are beginning reception and only go until 1:30 right now and the main pedestrian gate is closed at that time). So he was walked out that gate by us (his parents) on the first two days of school. To complicate things, we were told that he (and the other reception children) would be in a separate more secure playground during the day, however, they neglected to mention that they would be in the main playground with the other children over lunch time. If we had known this, we would have taken the time to point out that the gate was ONLY for when he was with an adult. But our understanding was that he wouldn't be near that gate.. so why would we go into that - we spent our time the first few days reinforcing the general classroom rules, which he was doing well with.

I would say 90-95% of the time, he would probably not wander. But because he has done so in the past on a few occasions, I feel it's important to bring it to the teacher's attention. Once he's had the rules reinforced, it's generally not an issue. But for goodness sake, he's 4, it's a new environment with new rules regarding a gate that sometimes he goes through but other times can't (which can be a bit confusing at that age), and bottom line is that after he went for the gate on Friday, we should have been notified (at which time we would have KNOWN he was out in that playground and we could have then been reinforcing the safety rules), and they should have upped the level of monitoring on that gate.

ffs massivemammaries - I have said numerous times that we DO discipline our children - and DS knows there are limits and boundaries - but you actually have to give them a bit of adjustment time to LEARN new limits and boundaries in a new environment. And I expect school personnel to realise this, as they deal with children on a daily basis. I did not "go trotting off to Ofsted or the LEA" as you so charmingly put it.... I called them for advice. You ARE aware that Ofsted doesn't regulate schools, but does inspect them... so it seemed a common sense approach to discuss with them whether or not the situation was breaching any safety rules and what the appropriate course of action would be. NOT to make a complaint, but to ask for advice. And the person I spoke to said they recommended that the details be passed on to the LEA to make them aware, as a 4yo getting out into the parking lot was a pretty high risk situation and they needed to be aware of it, if nothing just to follow up and make sure safeguards had been put in place to ensure it didn't happen again - with this child or any other. I was also very up front with him that I wanted to speak to the head about this first and see if it could be resolved at that level, and he agreed that was fine but that it still needed to be brought to the LEAs attention. If I had refused, and a week from now, when a bunch more of the new reception students are starting school, if another child wandered out that gate and was injured or lost, I would feel dreadful that I hadn't brought it to someone's attention so that it could be resolved.

We live about a 20-25 minute walk from the school and cross a couple very busy streets. DS simply does not know the route yet and there is no way he would know how to get home by walking. We have only done the walk TO school so far, and picked him up with the car afterschool as he is exhausted by the end of the day. So he's never actually walked home from school - only to the street where the car was parked. So the chances of him getting lost or hurt would be very very high. He doesn't know the neighbourhood of the school AT ALL.

so he knew it was the gate OUT of the school? because he's been through it before?
so it wasn't just curiosity, he knew he was leaving the school? when he was supposed to be on playtime?