Can year 2 pupil go into year 3 for ability?

[icklepicklesmum]

My daughter is currently in a year 1/2 class and has achieved the grade she needs to achieve by the end of year 2 already.

Next year she is going into an all year 2 class as our school does not have a year 2/3 split class.

This means she is going into a class where the remainder of the children are basically anything up to a year behind her.

Is is possible for a year 2 pupil to go into a year 3 class based on ability?

This year the teacher has worked with us to ensure she doesnt get bored which is what happens when the work gets too easy. Each time she has said she is bored or the work is too hard she has made it harder. She has ended up getting better grades than most of the year 2 pupils in the class.

If any teachers can help with this or if any of you have experienced this I would appreciated your help.

I plan on seeing the class teacher to discuss our concerns so it would be good to hear some of your experiences beforehand.

Thanks very much

No, dont understand your argument, sorry; in a similar position to you with DD2 but have every faith in the school to support and challenge her as necessary - I would never dream of asking her to be moved up a year. She may level out, your DD may level out, who knows. Trust the school.

You do have the right to ask under the School dmissions Code for her to be admitted into a different year, and they should look at the case on its merits. (Doesn't mean they will.)

I think everyone is very down on you. Basically schools/Education Authorities don't like to do anything unusual, like let people change years, because then "everyone would want to " - if you think it's in your child';s interests, then why not explore it?

Oh for goodness sake. Your child is not a genius, it won't kill her to have a little bit of repitition. I was bright at school, would get to the end of level 7 maths books and all my peers in the mixed class (of which I was in the younger year) were at most on level 4. I would get 100% on the multiplication tests every time, finishing them within a couple of minutes. The teacher gave me 'investigations' to do instead. I vividly remember agonising over which box to pick (some 'investigations' were more interesting than others). I used to listen to other children read, and help my peers with their maths work. It didn't harm me.

The only way your daughter is going to be damaged by her learning this year is by listening to her mother harping on about how her needs aren't being met.

And as for your comments about the focus being on SEN children. In an ideal world there would be enough money to focus on every child all of the time. Consider the price of not quite reaching your daughter's needs. She gets a little bored sometimes. But, she has a willing set of parents who can capture and harness her inquisitive nature and teach her things that will expand her mind. Now consider the price of not meeting the needs of a child with SEN. They don't even have enough skills to live an independent life as an adult. Hardly compares, does it?

I should probably declare myself as the mother of a child with a learning disability. She is starting at a special school in September. It is expensive. She will be in a class of 10 with 4 staff. But I'd like you to sit with me and try to keep a straight face when telling me that your daughter should have half of my daughter's funding because she is 'bright'

Your daughter would do so much better if she had a mother who would get behind the school, encourage her child to throw everything into every activity and remember that it isn't all just about getting to the finishing post the quickest. It is about taking the most interesting route.

MissCromwell the point is the OPs child isn't unusual she has achieved Y2 expected levels a year early. What is unusual is that there is only one other child (according to the current teacher) working at a similar level. What the OP is describing is a child working within the normal range in most classes around the country.

icklepicklesmum,

Thank you for posting. I think it takes a lot of courage to deal with this, even behind the anonymity of a forum. It's emotive and difficult and we feel that a lot depends on getting it right. And I know that it's so very difficult to talk about 'ability' or 'differences in ability' between our child and another without sounding self-absorbed or deluded, which you are clearly not

Some schools are able to move children across the year group boundary, especially in maths.

In schools that aren't (I think a majority) the problem you describe must be breathtaking from a teaching viewpoint, with perhaps 3 years in 'ability' range between the highs and the lows being quite common even by the start of junior school. In literacy, the gap may be higher.

Thanks Mrz.

Maybe more people will now understand why we have concerns!

Is it too much to ask for a child to be given a good education? It just seems that to get this we have to fight. I am so sick of fighting!!

We have a friend who's daughter goes to this school and has actually gone BACKWARDS this year!!!

We now wait for a meeting with the headteacher and hope he actually turns up, unlike the teacher my daughter is due to have in September!

aegeansky from a teacher's point of view it isn't an issue. In my Y2 class I have one child working at Y4 levels in some areas so I give him Y4 work ...

Lougle
I am glad your child is getting the help she needs - she deserves it!

I could say more but I am not as rude as some.

icklepicklesmum did you make an appointment with next year's teacher or did the current teacher say he would be there? What did the current teacher say about his reason for not attending?

This is a tricky situation, and sadly one there is no easy answer for. I've been where you are.

There are two problems with moving up, and we encountered both of them. Firstly, most primary schools cannot go beyond the primary curriculum. Teachers just do not have the knowledge, ability, or permission to teach the secondary curriculum to primary children. So we were faced with my eldest who was a high level 5 by the end of year 5 - with nowhere else for her to go. She was so incredibly bored in year 6 - and she got out of the habit of learning, so even though she scored extremely highly in her SATs, secondary school was a huge shock as she hadn't had to use her brain for a very long time. What the answer to that is I don't know, but I think I might have let her coast a bit more when she was younger - there were children who were streets behind her at 7 who had basically all caught up by 11 because the school had done all they could with her way before year 6.

My second question is, if she did go in with year 3, will she cope socially and emotionally? Now, I know she has been in with those children this year, but there has also been her own age in the class too. A class of all older children will have a very different feel to it. Only you know your child best.

A word of caution, though, my youngest, in year 4, was put into a Y5/6 class for this reason. They said that they couldn't differentiate enough in the class below because she was too far ahead of her peers. Academically she was fine there, but she was utterly, utterly miserable. Her own teacher tried to make age allowance, but supply teachers wouldn't even realise and treat her like one of the 11 year olds. The expectations in terms of maturity and independence were far too much for her.

We solved it by home educating her (a radical move, I know!). She is now very happy. But I'm not sure what the answer is for you. The minute she gets to secondary she will meet plenty of equally bright children she can bounce off of (my DD1 didn't believe this until she went and had a bit of a shock!) and it won't be an issue.

In the meantime I think I wouldn't worry too much about school, but develop loads of interests to stretch her brain outside of school. The trouble is the primary national curriculum is like a single path - bright children come to the end of it pretty soon and there's nowhere else to go. Maybe at home you can explore some branches off of that path - astronomy, music, dance, sports, nature studies - that school will never travel down. You'll also be giving her a love of learning that will enable her to fly at secondary.

icklepicklesmum - what are the options for changing school? It doesn't sound like it would be much of a leap to find a better school, even if the new one isn't a "good" school.
I know there are issues with social continuity of course.

No Pixie, I was not ignoring you, I was reading with my daughter and putting her to bed. I am just getting some responses done now.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I wasnt aware of IEP so that is something to look into.

its good to have some suggestions.

Thank you

Pixie: I think your post shows exactly how much can be achieved by differentiating work within a child's own year group. My children and icklepicklesmum's child are nowhere near the level of yours.

I was similar to you Lougle when I was in school. It was a small village school with only two classes. When I was in Year 3 I was doing Year 6 work, and by the time I left I had worked through a number of Dickens novels which the teacher had brought me from home as I had read everything in the school library. They had to go up to the attic and dust off Maths books for me that nobody had touched in years.

I was never moved up a year, which I am glad of as I certainly wasn't mature enough to start secondary school a year early, or go to uni a year early.

But then I also never got bored, which is testament to my teacher (who was teaching an enormous age range of year 3, 4, 5 and 6, so when I was working at a far higher level than year 6 I must have been a real challenge!). I have faith that my children's teachers are as good with my children.

I assume you are in England, and I am not au fait with the English Curriculum, but here in Wales there is a bit in the curriculum which states that:

"The curriculum is planned as a progressive framework that spans four years (3 to 7 years) to meet the diverse needs of all children, including those who are at an earlier stage of development and those who are more able. Throughout their formative years, children?s learning develops more rapidly than at any other time. However, progress is not even and children go through periods of rapid development and times when they seem to regress. A curriculum for young children should be appropriate to their stage of learning rather than focusing solely on age-related outcomes to be achieved. Children should move on to the next
stages of their learning when they are developmentally ready and at their
own pace"

I would suggest that it might help to find a similar chunk from your curriculum and quote it to the teacher!

Thank you MrsCromwell. I will look into this. Its great to hear some positive suggestions of things that we can do.

Thanks so much

Thanks aegeansky

Its not an easy subject as I have realised since I posted this.

In my daughters school parents have always been supportive so it was quite a shock when some people got on their high horse just because I asked a question that they didnt like.

We have to do what we feel is right for our children and ensuring she gets a good education is very important to us.

Are positive suggestions in your eyes only the ones which suggest what you want to hear, ie that she should be moved up a year?

Many people on this thread have given you positive suggestions of how you can work with the school to make sure that she is taught at a suitable level. Many of them have involved staying in her own year group. Or have you not noticed?

Hi Mrz

We received a call from the school saying the current teacher would see us after school. She then informed us that the new teacher had said she would also attend. When she hadnt arrived after a good while another teacher went to look for her but couldnt find her anywhere in the school. The current teacher just kept apologising on her behalf.

We now have to wait for a meeting with the headteacher. We will tell him how disappointed we are that next years teacher didnt turn up to the meeting. I would think there would be a bit more effort when there are parents questioning if she is able to cope with their child next year but apparently not!

Admission of children for a school place outside their
normal age group
2.70 Although most children will be admitted to
a school within their own age group, from
time to time parents seek places outside their
normal age group for gifted and talented
children, or those who have experienced
problems or missed part of a year, for example
due to ill health. Admission authorities
must make decisions on the basis of the
circumstances of each case. Parents refused
an application for a place at the school have
a statutory right of appeal, but this does not
apply if parents are offered a place other than
the year group in which they applied for.

Thank you so much Music for sharing your experiences. This past year my daughter has been with the current year 2 pupils (next years 3s). She has been grouped by ability for all areas and she was grouped with all year 3 pupils so I dont see this as a problem. She is used to being with older children outside school too but has friends of all ages. She does outside school activities too so she is used to being with different children outside of the classroom as well.

Thanks so much.Its good to hear from people who have actually been there.

Yes domestic I have noticed, thanks for pointing that out.

And actually domestic ... some people have made some very good suggestions for alternatives to moving her up and I will look into these.