Can year 2 pupil go into year 3 for ability?

[icklepicklesmum]

My daughter is currently in a year 1/2 class and has achieved the grade she needs to achieve by the end of year 2 already.

Next year she is going into an all year 2 class as our school does not have a year 2/3 split class.

This means she is going into a class where the remainder of the children are basically anything up to a year behind her.

Is is possible for a year 2 pupil to go into a year 3 class based on ability?

This year the teacher has worked with us to ensure she doesnt get bored which is what happens when the work gets too easy. Each time she has said she is bored or the work is too hard she has made it harder. She has ended up getting better grades than most of the year 2 pupils in the class.

If any teachers can help with this or if any of you have experienced this I would appreciated your help.

I plan on seeing the class teacher to discuss our concerns so it would be good to hear some of your experiences beforehand.

Thanks very much

Thanks Liz. This is why I want to hear from others that have experienced this.
I have just received a call from the school and have an appointment with them so we will see what they have planned.

Does she do any extra curricular sports or clubs or learn an instrument?

Yes, she does gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics and swimming.

It is not wrong, in fact it is what we all want for our children. I've been torturing myself with something similar for the last few months as both my DC are significantly ahead of the main academic subjects (whilst they are weak if anything on music and art, and just normal at PE).

I can get my head round the fact that resources are limited but not that the less able children deserve to be given more help than the very able children. I understand the SATS system and how it encourages schools to get as many as possible above a given threshold but it doesn't really do anything to ensure a good education for the brighter kids.
On one hand I know that if a child enjoys learning then they are being set a good base for the next 20 or so years of primary/ secondary/ university and then professional exams. So it is important to start with the right attitude to learning. On the other hand, who cares what happened at primary school once it is behind you?

hearing parents wanting to move their children up a year makes my heart sink. school at this young age is not only about being the best at spelling or at maths or reading - its about learning other topics, about learning social skills, about learning to learn in a situation where everyone is not as clever as they are.

if you are aware your child is doing well at school then you need to ensure her class teacher is challenging her with appropriate material in the areas she is good at and letting her learn along side the rest of the class with everything else.

I dont ever imagine anything good socially comes out of moving children into a class of older children - apart from to make the parents feel better!

So, if she is that far ahead in reading but they won't give her any more books what is she supposed to do whilst the others are reading?

If the teacher is just leaving her twiddling her thumbs in the corner then I can appreciate your annoyance, I have thankfully never had the misfortune of meeting a teacher who does that!

DS2 (who is also in year 1, and has just turned 6) is 6-7 reading levels ahead of the rest of his year, and as I said earlier has to fetch reading books from the Year 3/4 classroom. But his teacher doesn't stop him from doing this (even though she is a little puzzled by him, he reads like a total bookworm but she can't get him to sit still in class!).

Being a year or so ahead at this age shouldn't be a problem if the teacher is good. They should be able to cope with a reasonable variation from the average either way.

Were there only a few year 1 children in the mixed year 1/2 class she is in this year? Will all the year 2 (from September) children be in the same class or are there some who will be in another class (ie another split 1/2 class?)

I can see your experiences in reception have obviously influenced your worry now - would you be able to talk to the teacher your dd will have in September and explain your concerns and ask how they will be differentiating work for her?

Did you have another thread similar to this where you said your dd was at level 2b or so at the end of this year? If not then ignore next sentence but if she were then this woukd be an "average" for children at the end of year 2 so I would imagine your dd would be on track to achieve more than that - so she hasn't completed everything she needs to in year 2.

Were there only a few year 1 children in the mixed year 1/2 class she is in this year? Will all the year 2 (from September) children be in the same class or are there some who will be in another class (ie another split 1/2 class?)

I can see your experiences in reception have obviously influenced your worry now - would you be able to talk to the teacher your dd will have in September and explain your concerns and ask how they will be differentiating work for her?

Did you have another thread similar to this where you said your dd was at level 2b or so at the end of this year? If not then ignore next sentence but if she were then this woukd be an "average" for children at the end of year 2 so I would imagine your dd would be on track to achieve more than that - so she hasn't completed everything she needs to in year 2.

Sorry

Iclepicklesmum - just a point of view from someone on the receiving end of this - I don't think this is necessarily the case for you at all, but it might be worth thinking about.

My mum started on my primary school about me, at exactly the same stage, over exactly the same thing of moving backwards into grade 2 from a grade 1/2. Aged 6 I had a reading age of somewhere in the mid teens, could do algebra, was doing grade 7 piano, blah blah. But socially I was very much a six year old, and not the world's most insightful one at that.

The school were very very nice about it. They said no, because socially and biologically i was still very obviously six.

But my mum went on and on and on about it for years. I think it was damaging in that it gave me an academic-princess complex by making me focus for many years on the fact I was so far ahead academically, while being completely unaware that this socially- vacuous princessiness made me deeply unpleasant to my peers.

It would also have come from the fact that my parents don't do empathy in any way, so after some time out in the real world I am just beginning to realise how odd my upbringing was.

What would have been really very good for me would have been to learn at that age that i should see every other child (and teacher, librarian, secretary and cleaner) in that school as another human, with a life and challenges to overcome, and interesting insights. Instead - with encouragement from my parents - I saw the kids as thick and boring, their parents as uninsightful, the teachers as unimaginative boring jobsworths, and I never even considered the existence of the librarian or cleaners.

Not sure what would have made me develop such empathy (other than 20 years in the real world). Scouts or sunday school or something might have helped, but my parents didn't understand the value of doing shared activities - they just said "oh you already know how to do all the stuff you'd get badges for anyway, what would you do that for, you'd be bored".

Anyway - I don't think you would necessarily go on about it etc., and i'm sure your daughter is empathetic beyond her years as well as academically gifted. But it's worth thinking about these things just a little bit, maybe.

ime it also conjures up a from other parents where a younger child is promoted

It is highly unlikey that your dd will be able to go to secondary school ahead of her peers, so if she were to go into the Y3 class at some point she would have to be "kept back". Thinking even further ahead, it is also unlikely that she'd be able to start university at 17 (assuming she sat all her A levels ahead of others her age). Whatever happens basically, she will have to spend the same number of years in school as anyone else.

There are exceptions of course, but these aren't DCs who are a year ahead (or even two) of their peers.

I can see why her YR teacher's approach wrt reading books concerned you, and it would've worried me. But that was in reception - a half decent Y2 teacher will be able to differentiate to accomodate a range of abilities far broader than a year or two either way.

I really do think that Merrylegs is talking sense. There is no way your dd can know everything about the topics she'll cover in Y2. Absolutely no way. She'll be expected to write about various topics - in the 30 minutes she has to do that she could churn out 2 A4 sides of beautiful, neat, articulate prose while someone else will have managed 5 scrawled words and a half-arsed picture (as my son did in Y2).

Obv. you need to talk to the Y2 teacher - I'm sure he/she can put your mind at rest.

Noak - they have totally split the classes up although we were told they would keep them together as what they call"high flyers" ... there words not mine.

"I can get my head round the fact that resources are limited but not that the less able children deserve to be given more help than the very able children"

If you want to hear the sound of hollow laughter, I suggest you post that on the SN forum.

Domestic - in the reception class they would just refuse to change the book or more her up a level. She did a lot of thumb twiddling! This year they actually ran out of key stage books for her so they sent her to the school library to choose her own books. This has been much better.

The year 2 class might turn out to be ok if they have got things in place to teach her but on the other hand it might not be. It would just be far easier if they had a year 2/3 class but the school says they dont teach across two key stages.

I just find this school so frustrating!!

lingle - no doubt they would feel like that because they want their children given every opportunity (as we all do - but can't have!)

Canella, this isnt about making parents feel better, its about ensuring our child receives a good education and this is why I posted a message to hear what other people in this situation have experienced.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a child to do well. If you asked my daughter if she was clever she would say no. she just thinks she is like any other child in the playground. She mixes with children of all ages and all abilities including children with SEN.

I am sorry I made your heart sink but I will do whatever I have to do to ensure she has a good education which is why I posted the message to hear from others that have been in similar situations.

I don't think nayone is saying there's something wrong with wanting your DC to do well - rather, that there would be no benefit to her going into Y3.

You seem to be convinced that the only way your dd will get a good education is by her working with Y3. You've had lots of really good advice here, but still you're convinced that the school needs a Y 2/3 class - well, even schools with lots of mixed year classes try very hard to avoid mixing Y 2 and 3.

Others have said it, I'll say it again.
Of course you are not wrong to be wanting to ensure that your dd has a good education, you're giving her a great gift with your support. I can understand that you had a bad experience when she was in Reception, but you shouldn't assume that Y 2 will be the same. I have experience of many, many schools, and would anticipate that the vast majority of Y 2 classes will have pupils starting the academic year working at the level that you dd is at. Their needs can, and of course should, be catered for by the teacher planning for the diverse range of needs in their class.

Meet with the teacher, discuss your concerns. But moving out of year group is a can of worms that is best avoided, IMVHO.

Sorry, I went on a bit.

No, I am not convinced that she should go into year 3 at all which is why I started this thread. I didnt mean to get everyone on their high horses, it was a simple question and I wanted from people that had experienced this.

It just seems that people accept things too readily and that more is put into education children with SEN in the school she is in. They of course deserve the help they get a friend of mine has a child with SEN and we talk often. BUT a child that is above average also has special needs - a need for a good education.

We will be speaking with the teacher later today and will listen to what they have put in place for her. It may all be fine but on past experiences I think we have every right to feel like we do about this. Thanks to all that have made some positive suggestions - this is what I neeed, thank you

i think most parents want their child to have a good education - i certainly do. my dd was also way beyond most of her classmates with regard to reading and spelling but lacked social skills that would have been a detriment to her in a class full of older children. (not that we ever thought of asking for her to be moved into a diff year).

but your post is very enlightening
"If you asked my daughter if she was clever she would say no. she just thinks she is like any other child in the playground" - why try to change that and end up with your dd feeling like tortoisehellOstrich did through all her school years!

Every single child deserves a good education, which will enable them to achieve their maximum potential, at whatever level that might be.

I would not consider a child working at 2b at the beginning of Y 2 to experience special needs, it is a really good level but not exceptional or unusual. I do not mean to sound rude by saying that, it is not my intention, and your dd sounds lovely, bright and hardworking!

Good luck with your meeting, I hope it goes well.