Can year 2 pupil go into year 3 for ability?

[icklepicklesmum]

My daughter is currently in a year 1/2 class and has achieved the grade she needs to achieve by the end of year 2 already.

Next year she is going into an all year 2 class as our school does not have a year 2/3 split class.

This means she is going into a class where the remainder of the children are basically anything up to a year behind her.

Is is possible for a year 2 pupil to go into a year 3 class based on ability?

This year the teacher has worked with us to ensure she doesnt get bored which is what happens when the work gets too easy. Each time she has said she is bored or the work is too hard she has made it harder. She has ended up getting better grades than most of the year 2 pupils in the class.

If any teachers can help with this or if any of you have experienced this I would appreciated your help.

I plan on seeing the class teacher to discuss our concerns so it would be good to hear some of your experiences beforehand.

Thanks very much

ickelpickle - sorry if I am asking something already answered but what is the grade that she has achieved already that 'she needs to achieve by the end of year 2'?

If you are thinking of level 2b then that is only the level that most children should achieve, not what they could achieve. Year 2 curriculum covers children working towards 3a in literacy and maths doesn't it without needing to access higher years? Or maybe we just have lots of clever kids in year 2!

On another point Star ... I used to be a school governor so know what the school is like and what is kept under cover. All very frustrating but we will get something sorted out.

The problem is Star that in my daughters school they have this thing where they have a guideline of 2B for the end of year 2 and that is what they aim for. Its like they tick that box so that is done and they move on to a child that hasnt achieved it. We sat down at length one day with the DH and she just kept producing pages with boxes on that had ticks in to say she had done this and done that. Once all those boxes were ticked that was where they wanted to leave it ... we find it so frustrating and it really gets annoying when we have to keep fighting just to get her a good education.

Hi icklepicklesmum. I have had experience of this.

My DD was in a similar situation to yours - in a yr1/2 class as a yr 1 and way ahead academically. The school is a smallish village school and the year groups are reshuffled each year. After a huge amount of thought and discussion with a very helpful person from NAGC helpline we decided to ask the school if she could move up a year.

To cut a long story short, she did move up. The teacher of the class she entered seemed dubious but DD herself proved that it was the right decision - the teacher saw and was impressed with how she enjoyed the challenge of the work but also coped fine with the social challenges.

I would be happy to discuss it further so do ask me anything you like - I know you are not sure it is the right thing - we weren't sure either. We were/are not pushy parents trying to show off - we just wanted to preserve our DD's love of learning and help her to continue enjoying school.

She's now just finished yr 8, age 12, and very very happy in a selective school. She is fine socially as well as academically.

If she's just bright, she really doesn't sound as though she needs to be moved up a year. There will probably be several others like her in her class next year.

Thank you englishpatient - that is very helpful. I am so glad that you got what you wanted for your child.

We will listen to what the school has to say and take it from there. Thank you for sharing your daughters experience with me.

Do all of the teachers do this at this one school? It's just not good practice to not differentiate and provide optimal learning experiences for all children. Very odd place if none of the teachers provide learning for children beyond their end of year "target".

Also - Is it a state school? Do you have a choice to move her if you're unhappy? (I have no idea about the legalities...etc of this in the British system... still trying to wrap my head around how a religious school is state funded and preference for entry given to church-going families..... anyway....)

Icklepicklesmum, I hope your meeting with the school goes well. Please let us know how you got on.

"in the reception class they would just refuse to change the book or more her up a level. She did a lot of thumb twiddling! This year they actually ran out of key stage books for her so they sent her to the school library to choose her own books. This has been much better" - DS2 (year 1) has run out of reading books in his classroom too, he is 2 levels above the highest level books in the Year 1+2 class. So they send him to get them from the year 3+4 class. It's not big issue and certainly not a problem.

I would also agree about them not being able to go to secondary school early. None of the secondary school here will take them early, and I don't think I would be happy from teh social aspect of a 10 year old going to secondary school. Imagine how boring it would be to have to do Year 6 twice!

We have young teachers in our school, it doesn't necessarily make them any worse than older ones. Less experienced, yes, but you can have rubbish teachers who have been in the job for a long time and at the same time have newly qualified ones who are fantastic.

I hope the meeting is productive, but please be open minded to the fact that with proper support she will be fine staying in her own year group.

It is not true that they cannot go to secondary school early. Whatever you may think about the rights and wrongs of it, it IS possible. I know as my DD did it.

I agree that "with proper support she will be fine staying in her own year group" - the OP is worried because she doesn't feel that her DD is going to get that support.

I know that the two secondary schools near us (the only ones within a 20 mile radius) don't take them early, that is their policy. Obviously other schools in other areas may have a different policy.

The social skills argument is relevant for a "genius", working 4 years ahead, but a child working maybe two years ahead of average will probably have above average social skills anyway.
But surely there is generally as wide a range of social skills as there is of acedemic skills in a class?
Children mix with their friends at playtime, not during class.
In real life children of various ages play and live together. Many mixed classes will range over 23 months in any case.

Agree with choccyp1g.

Hi, icklepicklesmum,

I think the issue here is that your dd is not unusually bright per se, she's just brighter than the average intake at the school she is in and you don't have much confidence in the quality of teaching at the school - so pushing her up a year and staying with children a year older throughout her school career surely isn't what you really have in mind?

As your dd's school clearly does have some OK teachers (you don't seem too unhappy with what happened to her this year), then shouldn't your approach to the school be affected by your knowledge of the teacher she will actually be getting next year? If it is one of the better teachers, then I would have thought that it would be better to leave her with her peers, given that a reasonable teacher really should not have a difficult time stretching a bright but not truly exceptional child in a class appropriate to her age? If the next teacher is poor, then your approach could be different - bearing in mind that suggesting your daughter go into an older year is a direct criticism of the standard of teaching, anyway, as it shouldn't be necessary in a good school?... Anyway, my view is, better a good teacher in Year 2 than a poor teacher in Year 2/3 or Year 3.

dd (7), just finishing y2, is exceptionally tall for her age so people are always assuming she's in y3 or even y4. In ballet she's the only y2 child in the class - the rest are all y3 - and in swimming she's the youngest (but certainly not the smallest) in her group. This means that I see her in context with older children a lot and there is a HUGE difference emotionally and socially between dd and the average y3/y4 child. So that even though dd is very bright academically and easily capable of work at least 2 years ahead, I wouldn't want her moved up a year as I think she'd really struggle socially.

dd gets her reading books from the y4 classrooms (in fact, most of her reading comes from home or the library) and is on 'top tables' for literacy and numeracy and gets 'extra challenges' to keep her busy. Quite often she's taken out of class with another very bright little boy, but that's quite socially isolating so I dont' particularly want that to carry on. Being honest, she does find some of the whole class teaching deathly dull, especially in maths and I had to go in at the beginning of the year because she was complaining she was being made to do all the easy stuff first before being allowed to get onto the higher level stuff. The head was great and intervened to make sure that all the work she was given was appropriate, and she's been much happier since then

icklepickesmum- My DD1 is in year2 in a state school, and is doing reasonably well. I find that her teacher challenges her along with some of the other kids who are doing equally well. The other day I was surprised to find her doing some advanced fractions and maths problems, which typically i would solve using 3 variable equation(but she was doing it differently). I am not a teacher, so my guess is that this is quite good. My point is that if you trust the teacher is capable enough to teach new concepts you need not worry, maybe she is moving along. However, if she is not being challenged at all, and this is affecting her, then there is a problem. You also need to consider how your daughter would emotionally feel in a higher year or how it would affect her confidence. We sometimes under-estimate how much kids learn from each other. What you need to consider is if she would be happy and confident in a higher year, in addition to being academically challenged.

Could I also suggest other channels like Kumon? I have hear that it is frowned upon by some people, but it would definitely give her the academic challenge she deserves.

Went to the school for the meeting with her current teacher. Was told the new teacher would also be attending but she DIDNT TURN UP!! ... gives us so much confidence!!

This is exactly why we have reservations about what standard of education she will receive next year.

Her current teacher said if the school did a 2/3 split she would be in it but they dont do a 2/3 split. Its not their policy to put year 2 children in year 3... but she can see that our daughter does need that.

At the moment that option isnt there which means her education sufferes because of that.

She has confirmed that she is at the top of the class and there is only 1 other child who is ahead of where they expect them to be at the end of year 1.

She said she can understand that we are concerned and that she has done all she can to get her the best class out of the three year 2 classes they have put together for next year. She confirmed that whereby last year they put classes together based on ability that this year they are all mixed ability classes.

So in her class there will only be 1 other child that will work outside the "normal" range.

She also said that if there was any way she could keep her in her year 3 class she would have to have her and that there are children in all of the year 3 classes that Katie has been with this year so she wouldnt have been away from her peers (as had come up on the forum)

She said that we are quite welcome to speak with the headteacher but he wasnt there today so we have requested an appointment with him.

So for now we are now closer to finding an answer but somehow we will get a plan for her education.

I'm absolutely appalled at your daughter's teacher! She is incredibly unprofessional!

That is very unprofessional.

But on the plus side, at least there are two of them who are working at a higher level. there is no way that a teacher can reasonably ignore their needs. Even if your daughter was the only one they should be supporting her within her own year group. DS2 is the only child in year 1 who is on the reading level that he is, every other child is either 6 or 7 levels behind. But he is still supported at that level.

Her education doesn't have to suffer by her not being moved into a higher year. But you do need to make sure that she is going to be supported properly within it, and that will involve speaking to her new teacher (and also the head if necessary).

Any teacher should be is more than capable of differentiating for the needs of all the children in the class regardless of ability. I'm not sure why you believe her education will suffer because she isn't being moved into the next key stage.

You would think so wouldnt you mrz but its been proven in the past that this school cant. We have been told before that they dont want her getting too far ahead of the others in the class! So you can understand our concern. Today we have been told that if the school had a 2/3 split she would be in that class so she could work with year 3 children, just as she was in 1/2 split and has been working with year 2 children this year. The teacher she is having next year didnt even bother to turn up to a meeting to discuss what he plans are for next year so this is why we believe that he education will suffer in a year 2 class with this teacher! So, you see we do have cause to worry!!

As I said earlier I'm appalled by what the current teacher has said. I would worry too... about everything she has told you! She clearly feels she must ingratiate herself with you.

If the school is truly as you say (only 2 children in year 1 ahead of where they expect at the end of year 1). Then I would be looking for another school. They are not encouraging all pupils to reach their full potential. The children should not be of one level, but shoudl be a nice bell shaped curve, with some ahead and some behind (who should be helped, but will always be there unless they are selected against).