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Preteens

Parenting a preteen can be a minefield. Find support here.

Original poster

12 year old told me we all like his sibling better

74 replies

Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 20:15

So a fight tonight between my sons, not unusual especially during lock down. Older one nips at the younger while watching tv (8 year old does love to talk during tv programmes, I will shush him but his db will tell him to shut up, he's so annoying etc.) Tonight he also told him that no one likes him, he's annoying so no one will want to be his friend.
I didn't see how this began but ds2 kicked ds1 hard, and ds1 then slapped ds2 with his full force on his back.
Dh took his Xbox away for this but he is really upset and says we prefer his sibling, we don't do anything when he hurts him etc. Ds2 blames himself and says "I'm so annoying" and cries about his brother not liking him.
So we probably do seem "nicer" to the younger one but it's so hard not to be telling off a child who says such mean things and uses his force so often. He is twice the size of his little brother which doesn't help.
Sorry am at wits end about what to do. I thought of bringing them together tomorrow to discuss a way forward once they've both calmed down.
I feel so sorry for my little one who takes an awful lot before he's provoked to hit back. And I feel sorry for my older one who is quite awkward socially anyway and I hate the thought that he doesn't feel as loved as he is. I just wish they'd get along.

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 04/06/2020 20:18

I'm struggling to work out who did what. Am I right in thinking:-
Youngest talked through tv show
Eldest told him to shut up
Eldest told him no one likes him or will be his friend
Youngest kicked eldest
Eldest slapped youngest
Eldest had PlayStation taken away

Is that right? I don't want to comment til I can properly understand.

MakeLemonade · 04/06/2020 20:18

This is a common trope rolled out by my 12 year old in the middle of an argument too, I suspect some of it is an age thing.

I’ve explained to mine the difference between fair and equal, and if she wants to be treated equally to her little sister, she can. Bed at 7pm, no phone etc. What she sees as favouritism is actually just me adjusting for age and when we’ve had discussions about it outside of her having a strop she has admitted she doesn’t think her sister is the favourite after all!

Original poster
Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 20:20

Yes Bernadette that's exactly it! But multiply by it happening (or something akin to it) over and over.
They used to be best friends. Well basically until the younger one started speaking Sad

OP posts:
Porridgeoat · 04/06/2020 20:20

Do you spend quality 1:1 time with the eldest.

EskSmith · 04/06/2020 20:21

My kids are 11 &13. They regularly tell me that I love the other one more. They can't both be right...
Kids just know how to push your buttons and see the world only from their own point of view.

Porridgeoat · 04/06/2020 20:21

So what was the younger child’s punishment for his actions?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 04/06/2020 20:22

Did the younger child have am equivalent punishment to the elder for the violence?

flamingochill · 04/06/2020 20:25

What was the younger child's punishment?

passthemustard · 04/06/2020 20:28

I have 12 & 8 yr old DDs and it sounds a very similar situation here.

Youngest just wants to be friends and idolises her sister. eldest is venomous and makes me cry for the heartbreak she causes her sister. I did actually in fact cry yesterday whilst telling her off for some hideous diatribe she spat at her sister. Funnily enough she was nicer for the rest of the day. I hope it's just hormones.

But I did catch my 8 yr old slapping her sister this afternoon over argument about lemonade. I feel for her because she doesn't have the vocabulary to argue effectively without resulting to violence yet. But I did have to tell her off of course, which hurt me because the 12yr old did start it and was unreasonable in starting the argument.

Original poster
Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 21:00

I like the "fair not equal" idea.
I see where you are coming from with the younger child's punishment. He seems to be the victim so often and is over sensitive to criticism so probably gets away with more. He will cry sometimes and ask me why his brother hates him. He has been sent to bed early. We brought them both back down and tried to have a restorative type conversation (one person speaking at a time, how did they each feel etc) and it was not a success - ds1 sees everything only from his point of view and could not think of a single positive thing to say about ds2. Ds2 looks up to him so much and they have the odd flash of happy times but ds1 is like a bull in a china shop and one of them ends up getting hurt.
I have been watching "older" tv with ds1 alone and we go on walks together. He is a more pleasant child one to one for sure.
Thanks for all the advice I didn't know what to do at all tonight.

OP posts:
Original poster
Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 21:03

@passthemustard that is spookily like mine Shock

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 04/06/2020 21:03

Ds2 obviously started the violence by kicking his brother! Why was your older boy the only one to be punished when he retaliated?

Original poster
Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 21:09

They were both sent upstairs, and (post talk) ds2 has been sent to bed. The noise that was made when ds1 hit ds2 reverberated round the house. I thought he was injured. So probably didn't jump to telling him off due to the tears. But he had listened to a stream of shut up, idiot, and no wonder you've no friends for the previous 20 mins.
This is what we get for trying to have some family time instead of letting ds1 stay in his room all day, which he'd prefer.

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 04/06/2020 21:12

They were both sent upstairs, but ds1 had his xbox removed as well... I can see his point, tbh

Porridgeoat · 04/06/2020 21:15

All the negativity coming from ds12 Is actually how he feels about himself ... idiot, no friends etc

He sounds like he needs to feel loved and valued.

Original poster
Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 21:21

That's really interesting Porridge. He is down on himself I do think - and then pushes downwards onto his brother. I find myself torn between them so much and I don't know how to give him more esteem but also not let him negatively impact his younger brother's self esteem. He (ds2) has asked me more than once why his brother hates him. So he probably pulls on my heartstrings more than his more prickly sibling, but I love them both to bits.
If it wasn't lock down I don't think things would be as bad as this, they would have their separate lives at school.

OP posts:
1Wildheartsease · 04/06/2020 21:22

Sounds as if their behaviour towards each other is equal. Neither is the victim... even if one ends up more damaged.

The effects are different because of their different strengths/sizes. This is something to discuss with them but it doesn't make the 12 year old's actions worse than his brothers.

Punish them both - unite them against you and their relationship will recover. (They won't hate you for long and just won't resent you as they would a sibling who offended.)

Haffdonga · 04/06/2020 21:23

To put it another way:
Eldest and youngest were both winding each other up verbally.
Youngest attacks violently.
Eldest retaliates and attacks youngest violently.

Only eldest gets punished.

I think eldest has a point too.

Original poster
Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 21:23

Actually ds1 is negative about lots of things not just his sibling - doing schoolwork, going out for a walk, whatever I make for dinner, the stuff on tv - I really hope there is a hormonal element in this. Sad

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 04/06/2020 21:24

Maybe ds1 pushes down on ds2 because he is being pushed down on by you? Maybe if you spread the load over the two of them they will club together somewhat.

Thisismytimetoshine · 04/06/2020 21:25

God, you're just not listening, op. Your eldest totally has a point, poor sod.

Elsiebear90 · 04/06/2020 21:31

If the youngest was constantly talking over a TV show then I can see why that would enrage his older brother, not justifying his comments, but sounds like he’s sick of his younger brother misbehaving (and talking constantly over a tv show someone is trying to watch is misbehaving) and being excused for it. He lashes out verbally and his younger sibling lashes out violently, he retaliates, yet you only really punish the older one. I can see his point, did you at any point tell the younger one to stop talking (shushing him obviously doesn’t work as he carries on talking) so his brother could listen to the tv show? You could have intervened earlier before it escalated to this point and they both should have been equally punished imo, so I see your older son’s point.

Original poster
Iggi999 · 04/06/2020 21:33

Haffdonga they weren't both winding each up verbally - the comments all came from ds1, he was complaining about ds2 speaking during the programme - this included him laughing at the funny bits.
I am absolutely listening to what posters are saying. It's not straightforward and I am here because I want a better way forward.
The difference for me in terms of them both being as bad as each other, is that one child wants nothing more than to be friends with his brother and the other thinks he's a nuisance and wants nothing to do with him.

OP posts:
Porridgeoat · 04/06/2020 21:35

Go chat to your eldest and tell him you want to do something with him daily. Play his PlayStation with him or go for a drive or bake or whatever. You need to tell your eldest all the things you like about him in great detail regularly. Have heart to hearts, have fun. Ask him what you can do to make things fairer? Tell him how much his younger brother adores him

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 04/06/2020 21:36

Can't you see how annoying it would be for a 12 yo to be shadowed and smothered by his 8yo brother?

I'd expect a small amount of time together and a fair amount of time apart with those ages.

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