12 year old bedtime tantrums

[vicki2010]

Can I please have your bedtimes for your 11 and 12 year olds? My ds is driving me nuts with crying and fighting the bedtimes we set EVERY FLIPPING NIGHT!! It's turning me grey, what's the average times please lovely mumsnetters, just so I know I am not completely evil!

School night, lights are supposed to be off at 9pm, she gets up at 7am. one night per week it is later due to after school activities.

Ds is 11.6 and bedtime is 9pm on school nights. So upstairs at 9 for pjs, teeth and into bed. No reading time. Mind you, we constantly have to check the location of torches and there's a pile of books under his pillow!

We are normally 9.15 on a school night and 10 at the weekend,give or take ten mins or so, I don't think I'm that bad am I!?

What about the weekend?

You're fine, OP. I have the boarders at school as my reference point - they are 8:45pm for Y7 and 9:15pm for Y8. For DS (11,but Y7) we aim for 8:30pm but realistically it ends up close to 9pm. Non-school nights are 9:30pm ish.

9.00 in the week.

10 - 11 at weekend depends what's on tv, but she's normally tired by 10 anyhow.

doesn't get to sleep for hours sometimes tho.

I don't think there is a right or wrong time tbh.
When my older 2 were at school they went when tired but we had an upper level iyswim.
I think if they go to school and are up early they should be in bed reasonably early, but if they don't have to get up until 8.am they should stay up later.
Do you think they feel hard done by because friends stay up later, or are they just not tired at the time you give them?

Tell us about the fighting and tantrums. It is probably better to solve that than to worry about the actual time.
What sets him off? Has he always been like this? What is his argument?
At that age he is somewhat responsible for himself, what is he like when he is tired in the mornings?

Same - 9 on weekdays, 10 - 10:30 on weekends.

He has always struggled with his emotions and this is worse if he goes to bed late.
He's reasonably good at getting up in the morning for school, but I think that's because I make sure he goes to bed at the time he does.
His argument is that ALL his friends go to bed much later than him.

I just think he's too young to be given the responsibility of deciding when he's tired enough to go by himself, he's stubborn so would probably just sit up all night! We would all suffer then! I just wondered what everyone else was doing, it's so hard to know what's right at this age! They are so damn testing!!

Plus, dh and I spend little time together as it is I'm not ready to give up my evenings completely just yet, I am normally on bed by about 10.15 myself! That only leaves me an hour!

Ds does always fall straight to sleep too so I know he's tired.

I aim for 8.45 ish up the stairs in the week for my 12 year olds with a bit of reading in bed. They have to be up at 6.30 for school.

Weekends I'm much more chilled about it, they only went up about half hour ago as we had friends round, but they will sleep until about 10 tom.

10yo still crawls wearily into bet at 8pm, some nights. If it's past 9, it's because he actually can't sleep, for some reason. He's still an early riser, though. 5am, some days.

DS1 is 11y8m, bed at 9.30pm on a school night, 10pm Friday and Saturday. He's up at the arse fart of dawn though, never needed as much sleep as I think he should need other DC's his age.

I have twins DSs who will be 12 next month. School nights it is 9pm in bed but they are often in and out of bed and talking until 11pm which drives me batty as they are loud and bang about and have to be literally pulled out of bed at 7.45am to leave for school at 8.15am. Putting them in different rooms did not help at all as they would just creep in and out of each other rooms and usually end up in the same bed even though they profess to 'hate' each other .

Weekends it is supposed to be 10pm but the same problem occurs. DTS1 oddly manages to get up very early on weekends, sometimes before my 3 year old, and I have to tell him to go back to bed .

DTS2 has learning difficulties, has always been hyperactive and has had long running issues with getting off to sleep so much so that his paed recently prescribed him melatonin which worked wonderfully until he complained of nightmares, which is a side effect apparently, so I have stopped them. The first night he was asleep in bed by 8pm without even being told to go was a revelation to me. No idea what to do with them now. DTS2 has suffered due to DTS1 keeping him awake and he is now in the same crap sleeping routine as DTS1. It one of the many banes of my life!

Nope should have been DTS1 has suffered due to DTS2 keeping him awake and he is now in the same crap sleeping routine as DTS2.

11 year old, lights out at 20:00 or soon thereafter, she gets up at 6:20 on weekdays. Weekends lights out at 21:00.

InsanityandBeyond, my dd is having problems with sleep at the moment and it looks as if chamomile tea works even better than melatonin.

Over Christmas, when we let him stay up as late as he wanted a few times, it has become clear that my DS does still get overtired, and when overtired he will refuse to recognise that he is tired, and therefore will refuse to go to bed, which becomes a vicious circle much like the one I suspect you are stuck in, OP.

I use the boarders' bedtimes as a lever with DS because it is a definitive "someone else says" standard to work to, and the timetable that most of his classmates are working to. The main challenge that we have is that evenings are so busy and rushed that we really struggle to get DD (7) to bed sufficiently earlier than DS for him to feel that there is a difference. We have to have fed DD before we pick DS up at 7:30pm, otherwise by the time they have eaten it is bedtime for both. Trouble is, that only works when DH and I are both home so that we don't have to drag DD out in pyjamas to pick DS up.

I feel your pain, OP - they are not old enough to decide for themselves, but they are too old to be "put" to bed against their will.

Thanks for the reassuring replies, when he's had a good night sleep we can reason with him and explain it isn't a punishment it's because it's what he needs and he agrees! It's when he becomes overtired he gets emotional and stubborn!
Grrr, this parenting is bloody hard work, enjoy them while they are young because it really does get harder as they get older I think in a lot of ways!

On school nights, we aim for lights out at 9pm. Sometimes it ends up be 9:30. She gets up at 7:15.

10pm ish on weekends. At later during holidays.

Upstairs by 10pm lights out by midnight!

Is truly the only rule it's worth having.

DD1 would read to 12 (as did I), DD2 tends to lights out 10.30-11 PM. She's grumpy if she's silly and this doesn't cause a fight because she agrees.

Agreement not rules is always best with older DCs

OP, does he actually agree lack of sleep makes him grumpy or does he agree to shut mother up.

If he's still refusing to go to bed it's not a working agreement.

Starballbunny
He probably does agree to shut mum up! But at 12 do you really think it's ok to let him stay up until he's decided it's bed time? He would never ever go! He really wouldn't.
Is it normal to go to bed before your 12 year old? I can't imagine ever letting him stay awake until midnight

Is it possible to allow him to read for half an hour or so once in bed? Provided that it is just reading, and no electronics or whatever are happening.

That may make him feel a bit more grown up, and he may get on with bedtime without fighting you. I feel your pain though. I have an almost 12yo (DS3) with 2 older brothers, who HATES to go to bed before them. But by Christ does he need his sleep! And I need him to have it!

Do you have any sanctions for not going to bed properly? We had to get very tough a while back and DS3 was creating merry hell over bedtime. We said that if he kicked off at bedtime, the next night he went to bed at the same time as his (much) younger siblings. I simply said that if he was kicking up such a fuss, he must be very overtired and would simply have to go to bed earlier the next day.

If he refused to cooperated with that, then we took away privileges i.e. trips to the corner shop/electronics. It took a couple of early bedtimes for him to realise we were serious, but we got there!

Good luck! I know how they love pushing their luck at this age!

We start the bedtime stuff at half 8, aiming to be tucked in bed by 9. DD1 is 12 and goes quite easily though. Her idea of heaven is to be lying in the dark in her bed in the quiet.

Her younger sister is another matter however.