Questions about going to the loo at pre-school

[BlueberryPancake]

A bit TMI but at DS' nursery (he's only had half a day so far, and mornings only from Monday) the children are expected to go to the loo by themselves, unsurpervised, and wash their hands unsurpervised, and wipe their own bottom unsupervised. My DS is going to be 4 in November so he is one of the eldest, and I still can't trust him tod o a proper job at cleaning his bottom, and he sometimes get poo on his hands. I don't trust him to wash his hands correctly after a poo. And there are much younger kids there who have just turned three, isn't it unhygenic or is it just me being paranoid?

Is it the same in other pre-schools/nursery?

Cheers

BP

I think there is a difference between the expectation of the nursery, where they are setting a bar to show the level of independence they are hoping for, and what will actually be happening in the setting.
I'm sure staff will keep an eye of children, and be more than willing to help if need be.

They won't want pooey children wandering around any more than you do.

Also if your DS is only going half days, you may well find his body adjusts itself so as not to do poos while at nursery, so it may be a bit of a non-issue in the end.

In Wales accourding to CSSIW (care standards wales) WE ARE SPOSSED TO WORK TOWARDS CHILDREN GOING TO THE LOO UNSUPERVISED BY THE TIME THEY LEAVE FOR SCHOOL. I WAS TOLD BY A CSSIW OFFICER THAT BY 3.9 THEY SHOULD DO THIS WITH REAL CONFIDENCE IF THAT HELPS.

My DS is 3.6 and he can take himself to the loo, take his trousers down and wee. If totally unsupervised, some of the wee is likely to end up on the trousers. He also might not pull them up properly. He cannot wipe his bum yet at all. His school nursery is fine with this, they help as required. I think they like them to be able to wipe own bum etc by the time they start school. We still have a year!

CloudHopper, that's school as in reception, so by the time they are 4? Any info on children who are at school-based nursery (from the age of three)?

I have the same problem, dd starting at school nursery next week she has just turned 3 and despite months of toilet training still won't poo on the toilet although to be fair she has had problems with constipation.

The teacher has told me she cannot legally (?) wipe her or help her apart from passing them clean underwear. They will phone me if she poos her pants and I'll have to come and sort her out. I have to say I think it's unrealistic to expect all children of this age to be able to wipe etc, but I can see their point of view it will take the teacher's time and attention if they have to do this but it will take just as long phoning the parent.

I've been worrying about what will happen for ages but will have to see how it goes she will only be there for couple of hours each day so may not need the toilet.

Indigoblue, your post makes me very
I work in a private day nursery, and while we work towards the children being independent at going to the loo, I would never not help a child if they needed help. I would certainly not phone a parent to come and change them.
I know teachers have different job descriptions to nursery nurses, but until they get to Year 1 we are all following the EYFS, which does not make the distinction between 'care' and 'education'that so many early years teachers insist on.
Parents do not realise this when they take their children out of private day nurseries in favour of the nursry classes and pre-schools.

I am a CM and I do encourage the children to be independent, so they are ready for school, but I make sure I hover within earshot, ready to help when needed. Children develop at different rates and the EYFS insists that we operate in the best interests of the child (not the setting).

I imagine it's the ratios as well. I don't know the ratios at a day nursery but a school nursery is 1:8 and reception is 1:30, maybe 1:15 if you're lucky.

It does make it slightly unworkable in school if many children need assistance, although we would clean children up it's not unheard of to call a parent out.

Ratios at a day nursery are 1:8 for over 3s, rising to 1:13 if an EYP is present.
I don't know any reception classes that have 1:30. Don't they have nursery nurses and/or TAs?

No not all reception classes have NN/TAs and many only have support for part of the day

Part of me thinks it would be so much easier if dd was going to a private nursery if we could afford it because I wouldn't have this problem, but I'd also like her to get used to going to the nursery at the school she'll be going to.

She is on Movicol for constipation so I don't think it helps the situation of being independant. I've told the teacher all this stuff anyway, I just wish she wasn't an August birthday so I could have had longer to sort out her toilet issues!

Have you thought about just leaving or putting her at pre-school instead? it is not hugely expensive (9 pounds a morning?) and you could put her in 3-4 mornings a week, it doesn't have to be every day. My youngest has severe speech delay and I will leave him at pre-school next year instead of putting him to a school nursery, the staff there are much more flexible in my experience. THey are happy to do nappy or potty, or toilet.

She was down on the list for a pre-school but they wanted her toilet trained at 2 1/2 at that one so not much good. Will just have to see how it goes I think.

Indigoblue, I would love to know where all these toilet trained 2 1/2 year olds are
I work with children this age and out of 23, only 3 are fully toilet trained. 2 have been in pants for the first time this week.2 are using the pull-ups as pants and are ready to go into pants. The rest are in nappies and some show no signs whatsoever of being ready.
Under the EYFS, the needs of the children come first. I think that denying a child a pre-school place because they are not toilet trained is very bad practice indeed, and does not follow the guidelines of the EYFS.

Thanks purepurple, I know other children aren't all trained at this age, but feels like there's loads of pressure to make sure dd is, makes me feel better to know that the other children going probably won't all be performing perfectly!

I never chased up the one that said 2 1/2 because I'd already decided that I wanted her to go to the school one by then and they never contacted me to say she had a place, it may be that they have had to change to follow new guide lines now I don't know.

BlueberryPancake, hope your ds is getting on ok with the toilets at his nursery.

Just for referance, pre-schools are now not allowed to deny a child a place just because they are not toilet-trained.
cktwo will wind neck in now

I always clean dd if she has pooed but she has never yet pooed at preschool, but i was fully expecting that as she like to do it at home, in fact she was toilet trained at 2.2 and is now 3.5 and i only remember two incidents of her pooing in public toilets

So maybe it wont be an issue?