Other parents already hate my 3YO son?!

[jealsrealdeal]

This post comes out of upset and frustration, and I'm not sure if I'm looking for reassurance, or honest opinions.

My son is 3 and he started nursery only 2 months ago. He is an only child, and because of COVID lockdowns he spent most of his first 3 years with only me and my wife. We moved far from family just before COVID hit, so we've been quite isolated from people we know and from making new friends while COVID happened. So, aside from the occasional toddler play group, nursery is his first proper time consistently around other kids his own age.

Anyway, we've had a couple of incidents of him being a bit rough with other kids, but the nursery have assured us that his behaviour all sits within the scope of developmentally normal.

Last week we were waiting outside nursery for them to open, my son was running around in a circuit around a flower bed. While he was doing that, a boy from the nursery arrived with his dad, and my son ran up to the other boy and randomly tried to touch his eyes (so, he wasn't trying to be actively violent by hitting, pushing or biting, but still not acceptable) I immediately told him off and was encouraging an apology without telling him to apologise. The other kid wasn't even upset, but the dad walked him away from my son before he had the chance to apologise. Then the dad started shouting and swearing at me to get my "fing kid under control" and to "fing sort it out". I was completely caught off guard because I wasn't expecting to face a confrontation at nursery, and I replied "I'm sorry I didn't know he was going to do that." And then he threatened me saying "it's not the first time but I'm telling you it's the f*ing last.", which I perceived to mean he'll do something to me or my son if there is anything else that happens. Immediately after the incident I discussed it with the nursery, particularly because we weren't aware of any issues with the other child, and I was concerned that the nursery are naming my son to parents when he does something wrong. Apparently they're not disclosing his name, and they think he's doing well.

Fast forward to today when my wife was talking to one of the mums who she thought was her friend. My wife told her about the incident, and the friend's response was that it was not acceptable behaviour from the dad but that she's not surprised, because she would prefer her son not to be around our son, if she had the choice. My wife said to her "I feel like all the other parents are talking about him and judging him." and this woman replied "Well they are. He's not a nice child. I like you, but I don't like your child." Obviously this upset my wife, and later me when I heard it. She also had a word with the nursery about her concerns, and they reassured her again that he's normal, that he's not the only one who has pushed/bit another child, and that he's been doing really well.

Seriously, what are we to do? He's only 3, and 2 months in he's already disliked by parents. Do we trust the nursery? Because I can't help but feel it's going to impact his development if he picks up that parents don't like him. And they say there's no smoke without fire - maybe my son is really a horrible child and I'm a terrible parent? Should we consider giving him a fresh start in another nursery?

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm falling asleep as I type so I'll leave it there for now, but I'll appreciate any thoughts or comments. I just don't want my son to be isolated!

I have had similar. It culminated in me putting in a complaint because I had my DC crying in the car several mornings about how he didn't want to go in to be hit and hurt. It broke my heart as he really loved nursery until that. I appreciated that he was 3 and obviously struggling, but I didn't like him. His mother was lovely, but I didn't want her child anywhere near mine.

It is difficult for all involved, because we all want to protect our children and do our best for them. I think the reaction of the father is ott, but I understand his frustration if his child is being upset and hurt by yours. I am not sure if I would be comfortable being in the same space as him.

I would be speaking to nursery and seeking to put a plan I. Place to help with socialising your son, including what he needs from you.

The 'running around flowerbeds ' might be feeding into the image of 'parents can't control child '.

Followed by an ineffectual telling off/apology.

The way you were spoken to was wrong but perhaps that parent put to bed a child sobbing at night because they are scared of being hit again, coaxed them to go in and then boom, your son does that immediately and he lost his rag. Still wrong but more understandable.

Take nursery out of the equation for a minute, what strategies are you using to help your child with his behaviour, to be consistent in discipline in an age appropriate way?

As for the friend. Try and put the word behaviour in to see what she is saying without the emotion. She doesn't like your child's behaviour. None of them do. She's brave to be so honest and it makes me wonder if that honestly comes from a sense of frustration at seeing it all brushed off as normal .

Yes lots of kids do this but it doesn't mean you don't address it. I think you need to be really honest with yourself about whether you do have things under control, agree some strategies with your partner and re-evaluate the nursery situation in a month.

You could start him somewhere new after the Christmas break and I would explore options so you have choices

Thanks for all the replies. Just to answer a few things that have cropped up, that I think I should clarify:

• Regarding lockdown, when restrictions allowed he did attend toddler groups about 2-3 times a week before nursery. We took him to the park and soft play too, as much as possible. There's also a family across the street that he played with a couple of times. I'm just aware this is a lot less than he would have had.

• I had never seen him touch someone's eyes like that before, so it really caught me off guard. My reaction was immediate, I did get down to his level, I used a very firm tone, and told him how unacceptable it was to do that to someone. I want to be clear that I wasn't standing to the side just casually saying no in a passive way. When I said I don't force an apology, I mean I say "What should you say to (person)?" rather than "say you're sorry" because I want to give him a chance to apologise for himself rather than mindlessly repeat me. I was actually still crouched down when this dad reacted at me, ironically interrupting and derailing me in the process of dealing with the behaviour.

• People talked about punishment. So normally we try and do natural consequences for bad behaviour. For example, if he were to throw his food on the floor (he doesn't, just an example) we would get him to clean it up and then he wouldn't get any replacement because he chose to throw it on the floor. For worse behaviour (for example, yesterday he got my wife in the face with a coaster) we send him to the naughty step for 3 minutes and then afterwards have a discussion with him to reflect on his behaviour. We occasionally take things away if they are involved with the bad behaviour. The thing is, at home he's really quite well behaved so we hardly ever need to manage his behaviour. He helps with chores, he plays really well. When I've taken him out to be around other kids, the only bad behaviour I've seen on 2 occasions is that he's hugged kids too roughly, and then this eye thing the other day. But there have been a few reports back from nursery, and every time we've talked with him about it. Nursery have even reported to us that he has improved significantly with his behaviour with other children. I always thought I was fairly strict with high standards for him, but maybe not if some of you are talking about punishment. What punishments would you suggest for something like this?

• I did talk to the nursery manager immediately after the incident. She said because it was outside nursery there was nothing they could do about the dad. But they were surprised because they said he plays well with the other children generally and that other children want to play with him.

• Some people have asked if we're different in any way. We're English in Scotland - some Scottish people hate English people, but that's the only thing I can think of. He has no additional needs diagnosed, my wife has ADHD so there's a chance he could have inherited that, and personally I think he has sensory processing disorder, but again it's not diagnosed. Nursery staff and health visitor constantly say he's fine, other parents don't like him, it's very frustrating.

• His nursery is an outdoor nursery, so they're a small group with a higher staff ratio.

Seriously, all of this has me feeling like a terrible parent. I used to really enjoy being a dad, but recently...

Children don't need to be around lots of other people to learn social skills, they can learn them from anyone they're around and anywhere they go, you, your wife, their aunts and uncles, their cousins, in the super market, at soft play, at the library. Children don't need to be in a nursery/preschool/toddler group to learn to be gentle or that you don't hit or that you take turns when playing a game.

I'm interested though that you say he wanted to touch another child's eyes - that sounds like pretty unusual behaviour to me. I'm assuming you and your wife don't let him play with or poke your eyes? He's 3 of course and 3 year old behaviour often isn't that rational but I'd also keep in mind that there could be something else going on here such as possible SEN. If you'd said pushing or biting then that's not unusual but wanting to touch people in the eyes sounds more unusual - does he have a fascination/obsession with eyes at all?

I'm also interested that he was running around in a circuit around a flowerbed at nursery - was he just running round and round in a circle? Just repetitively around one flower bed?

At the end of the day though there is a reason that parents don't like your child and the chances are it's because their children are telling them things he does. This isn't his fault (as the nursery staff should be aware and taking precautions if it's a frequent thing) but the other children are obviously finding it an issue if they're telling their parents even if nursery are sweeping it under the carpet/see it as not a big issue.

You need to talk to nursery in a proper meeting and get to the bottom of what is actually going on here - just moving him is not the answer. Before you go ask the wife's friend for as many examples and details as she can give. Tell them about the instances with other parents and ask them to explain them from their point of view. Ask if his social skills are behind those of others his age. Ask how they are ensuring the other children stay safe and what they are doing to support your ds with his behaviour so that he can fit in socially. Afterwards if any parent approaches you with any issues with your sons behaviour tell them they need to talk to the nursery staff about it so that 1. The staff are aware it's an issue 2. The parents are not building up anger and resentment and 3. So things can be put in place to properly support your ds. Ask them to speak to the staff every single time as it is for everyone's benefit.

@jealsrealdeal being a parent is the hardest job. Sounds just like their snobby Scottish shit heads tbh... obviously not all Scots are like this, I have some friends who are lovely who are Scottish. I'd say its racial bullying. Move nursery.

Just to clarify you can get snobby English and Welsh shitheads to.

Mega drip feed there.

You failed to suggest he had had any social outlets and blamed that on lockdowns.

The above mentioned now suggests that he has indeed had time to work out or be taught that his behaviour is not acceptable.

In the case of my children, we had naughty hands. If they so much as looked like they may hit or push- because all kids have their moments- I would firmly say "no naughty hands" and they would stop.

One of mine has Asperger's so that's no excuse either. We have code words for him to equate with potential incidents which changed as he got older (current one since year 6 and he's now in year 10 and much less prone to silliness, rather than violence is bazinga).

And no, not lots of people in Scotland hate the English. They like most parents hate kids hurting their kid.

I noticed someone asked how you would feel if your kid was the victim which you didn't respond to.

You need to take responsibility. You need to address with nursery that your child is unliked and vocally so. I would also speak with a health visitor if possible.

Ok just seen your update, you wife has ADHD and you think he might have sensory processing disorder. I think those are very relevant issues. ADHD/ASD/Dyspraxia /Dyslexia etc are all linked and tend to run in families - we have ASD, dyspraxia and dyslexia in ours. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was SEN at play here, but he's still very young and it might not be clear until he gets older. Certainly something to keep in mind though.

I don’t think op was drip feeding at all. He gave the important details in his op. This child has had less chance to socialise than pre covid kids….. end of.
I have a 12 year old ds and he is behind socially and emotionally following all the restrictions and lockdowns. I can see some of his peers are the same but some are not. I can only imagine that a high percentage of 3 year olds have some social and emotional issues after lockdown. Socialisation is so vital in these formative years.

OP, you sound like a great, very grounded Dad. The other Dad sounds unhinged! You were dealing with the issue and he just flew off the handle …. You sound like you have a good discipline routine in place ….. punishment is outdated and damaging, so ignore those who are suggesting it.

As for some people saying the ‘friend’ was helpful. No she wasn’t, she was nasty. I hope her dc will always be so perfect…. And if her dc does make mistakes, I hope that someone talks to her like this. I’m sure that was very hurtful for you wife.

"I don’t think op was drip feeding at all. He gave the important details in his op. This child has had less chance to socialise than pre covid kids….. end of."

It is nothing to do with Covid though - it's all on the parents and them not bringing their kid to places where other kids are. My DD will be 3 in December, and was a "lockdown baby" just like OPs - but she's still managed to be with kids, by attending nursery, swimming, play grounds, soft play, parks, beaches, cafes, play groups, library etc.

All these things have been open since late 2020, and fully by early 2021 and but we've been pretty much back to normal for a good 18+ months - almost 2 years now!!!

OP I appreciate your reply to posters. I also don’t see it as you drip feeding- not everyone is a regular poster and is aware of how others look on providing more info in updates. No one should judge anyone for forgetting to provide all of the information in Op, for crying out loud. The update was useful. I do think it’s in your best interest (as well as your sons) to get him assessed as soon as possible for ADHD. You clearly are a loving dad who wants the very best for his son, the same way others do their children. I stand by what I said in my reply to your initial post- if your child was the victim of a child who behaved like your son has, how would you feel? Can you understand how upset they’d be if their child began being afraid of going to school and was terrified of your child? I would feel downright awful.
Nursery has to be held to some accountability here too - you should now request a sit down meeting with them to discuss the incidents that have occurred with your son. I would also go above the nursery teacher and request to speak to the head teacher, in order to discuss that parents behaviour towards you on school grounds. It is NOT acceptable that you were the victim of that incident and it’s untrue they don’t have to do anything. They need to meet with this person and discuss what happened and explain it’s unacceptable to be so aggressive. It would have probably scared some of the children present at the time and the safety and happiness of the children is very much their job. You should not feel intimidated to go to school with your child and if you do, they need to step up.

In terms of what you are already doing in terms of discipline, to me it sounds very good. No one is an expert parent and we all get things wrong from time to time, that does not make us useless or bad. You asked what we can further suggest in terms of disciplining bad behaviour that happens while in school - I do think this is hard as well. So many parents I’ve spoken to see it as “they deal with that in school and that’s that”. For me personally I do not think that’s enough. Surely school and home need to be a team and work towards the same goal. Your son is very young so I would suggest carrying on with reward charts, a treat at the end of a 5 star week or similar. 5 stars, 1 for every good school day. A treat doesn’t have to mean sugar, it could be an activity they really enjoy doing. How’s his understanding? If you said “We use gentle hands and do not touch, push, hit or spit other people. We need to be KIND. Kindness is rewarded both in school and at home”. And then be very firm with nursery that they need to report back every incident that’s witnessed to you, so you can reward good behaviour as well.

Good luck and I’m sure you will get there!

Just wanted to add that I’m sure OP only meant that covid might have had some effect as to his sons behaviour. He’s aware we’ve all been through covid obviously. But when you’re at the end of your tether and feel absolutely heartbroken your son is behaving badly, sometimes I’m sure we all clutch at straws to try to excuse their behaviour. Give the man a break. :) I agree his sons behaviour isn’t solely down to covid, it sounds like he might be on the spectrum as well and it takes time for that to be diagnosed. He’s only acknowledging it’s been a rough few years (yes, like it has for everyone). All kids have had to endure covid and it’s safe to say not everyone is aggressive and violent. OP is aware of this, that’s why he’s here looking for advice.

Thanks OP. To be honest what you have listed is what I'd have expected so it sounds like you are quite on it.

On that basis I think I'd be looking for a new nursery. For whatever reason the fit isn't right here.
I'd just be very matter of fact about it. It's an outdoor one so you can blame the weather if necessary! You were there for a while to get good at playing with sticks, now we are going to try some indoor fun.

Maybe he'll do better at more focused tasks but for your own sake I'd just rip the plaster off as you are never going to feel comfortable now

Is it possible his behaviour is more challenging than you’ve been led to believe? Sometimes teachers avoid that awkward chat with parents and brush things under the carpet because it’s difficult to broach with parents (I say this as a teacher who has seen this happen!)

If two parents have said it then it’s likely the children have told their parents. Don’t make the mistake of thinking ‘He’s 3, he’s o ky young’ because whilst 3 is young , most 3 year olds are aware of how to behave.

Im surprised by the comments about Covid. Things have been much more normal for well over a year so I wonder why your child hasn’t mixed very much?

At weekends I would go to play centres or parks to try and help
your child to mix and model how to play nicely, putting an immediate consequence in when they don’t. This means they will learn how to behave with other children from you, it can’t just be left to to Nursery.

Completely agree, there is a third child with diagnosed SEN (the naughty kids don’t have any diagnoses) and the parents take a lot of care and are very open with the other parents so we can explain to our kids some of the things the child needs. This child is very integrated in the class and children never complain about her at home.

I’d be moving him as the dad has thrown a threat at you and your child, the mother has insulted your child and the nursery have done nothing about it. They sound quite lax over this and I’d be constantly worrying about my child’s safety. Not only that, but the nursery has said he’s absolutely fine there so they haven’t witnessed what these parents seem to be accusing him of. So either the nursery aren’t supervising the kids or the parents are bat-shit.

The nursery should also be concerned about a father shouting and swearing at another parent in front of the children on the nursery’s premises. If he can act like that at a nursery then I dread to think what he’s like behind closed doors.

he is 3 for gods sake. He didn’t hurt that child, he just needs some guidance. I think that setting will do him more harm than good.