Sorry long. Preschool wanted to assess my ds

[MamaMaiasaura]

My ds is 3 years 9 months. He started preschool for the second half of last term. Only 2 session's at 1.5hrs. His first experience of being away fron home. He did less than 10 sessions. He was reluctant to do circle time and didn't want to sit with everyone. He also ran towards their garden when going to
Loo. The preschool called me over summer hol and said at the end of term party he didn't want to join in and that they would like to assess him. This is after they've hardly had him. He's very bright, knows and recognises alphabet, both upper and lower case. Counts to 100. Does simple addition. Knows and spells phonics and also blends phonics, reads cvc etc. He's Doesnt hit/bite etc but can be shy. He doesn't want to sit doing song time or painting but will sit doing puzzle magazines (like pepper workbooks for an hour by his choice). All children are in together (mixed ages and abilities) and whilst lovely setting they don't have free outside access unless taken there. Ds loves being outside.

The new lead practioner doesn't tell me positives but that ds likes to run around. He likes playing chase games. When I collected him I watched him, he was sat with all the kids, right in middle drinking milk and eating snack. He sat for longer than most and went to join others queuing to go back in, so was showing he was doing same as others.

I had long chat with the woman who was really hostile and said if I'm not happy I should take him elsewhere. He seems happy and baby due in 5 weeks so don't want to disrupt him. The older practioner who is retiring joined us and the other woman compeletly changed her attitude.

They asked if he still co-slept and breastfed. He does still sleep in our bed and that is our choice. Re breastfeeding he's still having minuscule amount at bed time and not every night so very close to being fully weaned. He separates from me fine for preschool and hours increased to 3 x a week and 2 hours. Going up to 3 but he's poorly so off till better.

Sorry so long, just feeling a bit crap.

My view is that he's very bright and the preschool havent offered any suggestions on meeting his needs but more on how he can meet theirs :(

Yup I agree. I think upshot of it will be is that they do t want him at their preschool at all and can't help but think its issue with me rather than ds

Certainly makes you wonder. Good luck with it all, i would still tell them that their reasons are simply a load of rubbish. Is this nursery attached to the school he will go to Awen?.

I am really not impressed by this preschool! It really does sound like they are picking on you and DS.

It's not attached to his infant school. It has very good reputation but there is a new lead practitioner who has taken over, and she is the main person who I've spoken to. They historically have great ofsted reports and long waiting lists. We only moved here 3 years ago and I don't really know what else is available. We are going ahead with assessment and then may move him elsewhere. I just hate idea of disruption for him but if they aren't meeting his needs and are going to exclude him then it would prob be for best. I appreciate all the input I feel like this is all my fault

Your little boy sounds like my DS2. At 3.7 he was reading, counting, liked puzzles. Very shy. Wouldn't join in singing or music/dancing activities. Had adults that he didn't like and just wouldn't cooperate with. I was on maternity leave with baby DD and it just hit me that nursery was failing him, and that he was miserable there. Took him out of nursery in March. He was at home for 6 months before starting school. He played the way he wanted to play. He got his spark back. I took him to a mother and toddler group for 0-5s once a week. He thrived.

He started school in Sept. He is still shy, and he took a while to settle but the teacher and TA have been fab, and understood that he's a shy little one, and little by little have got under his shell, and now he says Good Morning to them, and joins in singing, and loves PE and phonics and reading, and comes out of school beaming.

It has crossed my mind that he has some quirks that correlate to traits of AS. But we too have plenty of scientists in the family, and used to that sort of thing. I think that now he's in an environment where he can thrive, he'll get through just fine without additional support. When he was in nursery, it was as if he was a different child.

I couldn't read your thread without posting. You could be describing my son. He is now 6.5yrs and we have been through the mill of teachers trying to label him, put a label on him...... Maybe he is a little different ( he does have a speech delay- for which he has received speech therapy) ....anyway we have just moved to the UK and for the first time in his life he loves school, and I think a huge part of that is his acceptance of his teacher(her words were "what is average"... We have had him assessed, but her whole approach, it is about her understanding, helping make him successful, and he is. So the teachers attitude is so important - excluding him from the nativity - WTF is that about. My DS is incredibly sensitive and a huge part if his problem is that he has been treated differently, excluded, set apart, this has all eroded his self esteem.
The assessment should be able to suggest wobble cushion, fidget toys and the like.... All might help him.
DS although very fit and ctive was weak in one particular set of muscles tgt effected his ability to sit cross legged, which was why he didn't want to sit at circle time, so he either sat on a chair, or ( the best option), with his bck to the wall.
It maybe the nursery isn't the best one for him, but that is their failure not his.

Also a book that helped me understand my son and where he was at, was call"the way of boys" by Anthony rao... I think every parent of a boy should read it (and every teacher too) , anyway, he talks about boys development being far less uniform thn girls, they have developmental lags.......anyway I urge you to read it...think he has a website too. It is an easy read, I read it, when dd was about a month old.

Ds was at preschool again today, nothing was said about inclusion officer so I'll speak to them on Friday as not going on Wednesday. He seemed so flat after school today and tantrums after dinner, not like him at all. I wonder how much he's picking up. He said in bath to his dinosaur "that will teach you a lesson". This is not something we would or have said to him. After probing him (something from book, tv, park etc) he said teacher at school said it and he had to sit on chair the wrong way. Nothing was said to me when I collected him and wtf are they actually doing?
I'm kept him out of preschool till he was ready and eased him in. He was enjoying it and now that seems to be not the case and they are wanting him to conform to the point he is miserable. Now do I just take him out completely or what?

TheAdvocado - I'm seriously considering Having him home with me again. He dies say he wants to go to preschool and it makes me question what I should do for best. The way I see him is that in some areas he's more focused and therefore other areas less so, but aren't we all? He comes from a family with a dad who is very very mathematical and to be honest pretty poor socially but he's still wonderful.

MrsL - I'm glad your son is happy and settled now. I really think my ds's self esteem is getting hit now. I'll look for the book on amazon, thanks

If you're at home anyway, I strongly believe that the care you provide for your son will be better than what he will get at preschool. He'll have to share your attention with his little baby sibling, for sure, but that's still a better adult:child ratio than at pre-school, and you are intelligent and educated and understand his particular needs. Let him enjoy his time at home before starting school. Build up his confidence before he has to conform to other people's expectations. Let him run free for a while before he's confined to the classroom. It's worth finding a local group where you can take him and his little baby sibling, together, so he gets socialisation, but apart from that, I don't think that pre-school gives children anything they wouldn't get from intelligent and interested parents.

I work as an EYP and find that when children don't want to join in at circle time it's better to accept that it's their choice rather than try to force them to do it.

It sounds like he is interacting with others - chase games and running around with other children are basic forms of interaction but many base-level educated practitioners dismiss this as messing about and don't realise that this is a prime example of how physical/cognitive/affective development link together in it's most basic form.

Have you asked what form of assessment they are talking about? Does it involve other professionals? Or are they asking for you to come in and discuss their observations? I would ask to see their observations as they should be giving evidence for their concerns and also to have a look at his learning journal. In my setting we would prepare focussed observations on behaviour giving examples of frequency of behaviours etc to show parents but it is good practice to balance this with the things a child does well - eg counting, mark making etc.

If your child is joining in with snack time with others etc then he does have social skills. It sounds like there are some old hat practices going on there - whole group snack time with queues etc is not recommended as it does not promote small group talking and child choices. We have a rolling snack time where children come to the table over the whole session time and find that communication skills are better developed this way. Is it that the circle time is too long to hold your child's attention? Children do get bored with adult led discussion if they don't get a chance to participate!

At the end of the day, you have the right to take him out of there if it's absolutely awful - unfortunately, there are some rubbish places out there who do not seem to access theories of child development or training and unfortunately the child as the individual suffers. Sorry to rant but hope this helps. I'm not saying I work in the best place in the world (I am looking for another job) but what is done well is the work with the children.

You say they have great Ofsteds. I think the whole inclusion issue would have me contacting Ofsted, to be honest.
I totally agree with what others have said about little boys having completely different needs to little girls. Poor early years settings don't recognise this and have ridiculous unrealistic expectations of boys and the behaviour they exhibit. You can bet your life that the leader at your playgroup doesn't have a boy of her own!

I understand why they are looking for assessing him, a lot of what you desccribe is typical Aspergers trends.

I'm not saying he has Aspergers, just that he has someof the signs and that is probably why they want to assess to se if he is and meet his needs, or to see if he isn't and again meet his needs.

Thank you for replies. Update is:

Preschool contacted by inclusion services but still won't take him to nativity. Said I can but can't bring 6 week old baby. Can't leave her as bfed. Reason is apparently staff ratio. Feel like ds being punished. Inclusion service not happy. I contacted ofsted who said they would like me to lodge complaint and they want to investigate. They said this exlxusion is not fair or allowed and they shouldn't treat him
Differently. They said to ask to see their behaviour management policy.

I spoke to senco at preschool and said I'm
Not happy they aren't including him and they will post copy of behaviour policy to
Me.

We are going to continue him in preschool education tho not sure if at this setting, as if I had him home it would be a big jump from 1-2 care to 1 or 2-30 kids.

I feel very cross for ds ad how they are treating this situation. They've assured me he will be included in their production now.

Re whether or not he has needs I think is aside the point of them excluding him.

Also had friends over and they were tearing around and ds didn't once crash into anyone or anything. They played together (was lovely) and another say I spent I town. Almost 5 hours and he didn't run off, listened, ate lovely lunch in pizza hut and a complete angel. I think they've labelled him already tho.

Lead practitioner called me, said I could always put ds in another preschool if I'm not happy. I kept repeating that all I eat is for ds to have same opportunities wether he has needs or not. She said I could call ofsted or inclusion but wouldn'tale any difference. I had to go to 6 week check and ended up passing phone to dh. When I got home he said that he can go to nativity and no need for me to as preschool will take him now dh basically let her talk and talk and she ended up saying he would have to sit on a may with lots of other children and dh said where else would he get this opportunity? From now on I want dh to deal with preschool

Dh went to meeting at preschool with inclusion officer yesterday and very positive. Should be havig a book to go to and from preschool and home for communication. Off to drop him off for nativity in a sec

Awen, just wanted to say having read the thread, that my DS2 is very similar though less bright. He had a lot of the same issues whe starting pre school, running from activity to activity, not sitting in group time etc etc. The. Nursery were wonderful and never pushed him to do anything, always included him in whatever form he wanted that to take. He now is absolutely fine. Can sit and enjoy group time and stopped rushing around. Frankly, I would remove him from the nursery. You are banging your head against a brick wall trying to get them to change the way they are. They should be meeting your child's needs, not the other way around. I wouldn't want these negative people around my child and feel like I was having to push for everything, things which should be done freely. Regardless of whether he has any additional needs or not, this place does not sound like the best environment for him. Hope he enjoys the nativity though!

Just to also say that my DS2 also had recurrent glue ear which he eventually grew out of. But it impacted on his speech and much of the inattentiveness was probably down to the fact he had 'learned' that behave, as much of his life had been spent not being able to hear instruction. Also hates hand dryers btw ! Well let's face it, the are loud noisy and unpredictable, and when you are 3 you are at just the right height to be blasted by them...pretty fair assumption they are not going to like them !!

Behaviour not behave

So when I collected him he was fine st nativity and walk back.

Hi Awen

I'm so sorry that you've been having a rough time. My little boy is 3 years 5 months. To me he is an intelligent (bilingual as I'm Turkish), loves to play chase etc. energetic games just like yours (although only can count to 20 if that!! :) He is a BOY I mean boys love running around and energetic - unlike girls who can focus better socialise better.
My little one used to go to a childminder since he was 1 y/o- and I knew from young age although he was very good with focus etc. he was not keen on circle times - he would just run around or play on his own. I didn't take much notice of this as I thought in time he would just get there. He has been going to a preschool since July and they contacted us last month and suggested to get him assessed by an inclusion officer. I must say I was absolutely shocked and so worried but I accepted it as I'd rather know if there is anything wrong with him than not so that I can help. However, the nursery has allowed him to take part in nativity play and there wasn't even a question about it so I'm so sorry you had to fight for him to take place at such relaxed play (I mean it's not like bein broadcasted on TV for Queen for Gods sake!!) Actually some other children were too shy , crying etc. so it really is awful they tried to exclude your little one from the play. If you're not happy you can take him away but again as your little one will start school soon you may as well just cope a little more (more change more disruption to him) Anyhow please let us know how you get on after the assessment and I will too. Best of luck. xxx

Hi nonicknaneavailable

Went to nativity today and he did brilliantly and actually there were other children who did not manage so well, which is to ne expected with little ones. He has party tomorrow, hope he has fun. They haven't put him in with older kids but with younger and ones that started later, which he did. So far tho the 2 things they tried to exclude him from he's done really well at. Almost want to say ner ner nener

The inclusion officer is not there to assess him but to assess preschool and help them meet his needs. This is happened around 23 Jan.

Hi again Awen
I am so happy for you and you boy that he had lots of fun! I agree you shoul go ner ner nener ner ner!! lol
Well the message I got from the nursery that my DS is going to be assessed but you view is very good too! May be they are unable to meet his needs. When I read their report the other day they actually said they were looking for a professional opinion to assess his behaviour (especially running off) and how to deal with it. I am going to start him on a second preschool the days I don't work for half a day each and I'm hoping that more exposure in different settings may help with him understanding the rules and boundaries or give him chance to make new friends etc. I'll ask him to be assessed in these two settings so that it's not the environment that is being assessed but my little one.

I just think this is such a sad situation for you. And so unfair. My son is 3.8 and is the same about not wanting to join in party games etc. Our preschool however say this is fine and not to worry. There are many children at this pre school that will not join in or sit down at circle time, not a problem they just do what they feel comfortable with. Preschool teacher explained that at their age they are not expected to focus for more than 7 min at a time anyway. Children here have free access to beautiful grounds.
I really do think you need to look at changing preschool. You don't need this fight so he has the same oppertunities. Just try somewhere he can be happy and you can relax.
So shocked you were told not to bring baby to christmas event. WHY can't you BF there!!??????? run, run, run -then report them for bad practice!

Dh and I had long talk, after Xmas I am going to see if another preschool has places and then once assessment has happened on 23rd then start 2 sessions at new preschool as he only dies 3 currently.

He went to Christmas party, they had put him with younger ones. They had them sitting in mat for ages. They had to sing 2 songs for Santa then sit while each child got a present and photo taken while all mums and dads watched. Needless to say a few including mine got bored. Ds decided to pick up used wrapping paper and put in bin. When I said to him to go sit with others the senco snapped at me "all he's done is put rubbish in bin", I just ignored her but wish I'd had the wit to say "how very helpful of him". I mean wtf is wrong with him helping out? the whole tone of her voice was real dislike and that's really what has made me realise I dont think I want him going there if that is how the senco is as she of all people there should be more tolerant. He's not even 4 yet (tho almost) but he must pick up on there feelings

Does not dies

Hi Awen.

Bright children often don't want to play with children their own age in nursery, they would rather talk to the staff. If he's being ignored by the staff then he's going to be unhappy. It doesn't sound like a good environment for him at all and I really do hope you find somewhere more accepting quickly.