Sorry long. Preschool wanted to assess my ds

[MamaMaiasaura]

My ds is 3 years 9 months. He started preschool for the second half of last term. Only 2 session's at 1.5hrs. His first experience of being away fron home. He did less than 10 sessions. He was reluctant to do circle time and didn't want to sit with everyone. He also ran towards their garden when going to
Loo. The preschool called me over summer hol and said at the end of term party he didn't want to join in and that they would like to assess him. This is after they've hardly had him. He's very bright, knows and recognises alphabet, both upper and lower case. Counts to 100. Does simple addition. Knows and spells phonics and also blends phonics, reads cvc etc. He's Doesnt hit/bite etc but can be shy. He doesn't want to sit doing song time or painting but will sit doing puzzle magazines (like pepper workbooks for an hour by his choice). All children are in together (mixed ages and abilities) and whilst lovely setting they don't have free outside access unless taken there. Ds loves being outside.

The new lead practioner doesn't tell me positives but that ds likes to run around. He likes playing chase games. When I collected him I watched him, he was sat with all the kids, right in middle drinking milk and eating snack. He sat for longer than most and went to join others queuing to go back in, so was showing he was doing same as others.

I had long chat with the woman who was really hostile and said if I'm not happy I should take him elsewhere. He seems happy and baby due in 5 weeks so don't want to disrupt him. The older practioner who is retiring joined us and the other woman compeletly changed her attitude.

They asked if he still co-slept and breastfed. He does still sleep in our bed and that is our choice. Re breastfeeding he's still having minuscule amount at bed time and not every night so very close to being fully weaned. He separates from me fine for preschool and hours increased to 3 x a week and 2 hours. Going up to 3 but he's poorly so off till better.

Sorry so long, just feeling a bit crap.

My view is that he's very bright and the preschool havent offered any suggestions on meeting his needs but more on how he can meet theirs :(

But barbarian - 3 is very young to make a diagnosis then that could be with him always, when he may simply be immature. And not all diagnosis are correct

Just to put your mind at rest... to get a 'diagnosis' of ADHD, ASD etc is extremely difficult for most parents who want it. Doctors cannot thrust a diagnosis on you and will not give one (even if you are begging for it!) without a proper, multi-professional assessment carried out over a period of time.
We eventually self-referred via the GP and saw a Paediatrician, Psychiatrist, Ed Psych, Occupational Therapist, Speech and Language Therapist and then back to the Paed again before we eventually got a diagnosis (took almost 2 years). This is very common - I'd say the most common route for parents who are seeking assessment and diagnosis for their child.

I would also say that - although I totally hear what you are saying and think that if you feel your child is fine, he probably is - you shouldn't be frightened of 'labels'. It is a fallacy that a 'label' will damage a child with a (genuine) SEN. Many more children go undiagnosed than are diagnosed. I know it is fashionable to suggest that ADHD is being 'over-diagnosed' or wrongly diagnosed in the Western world, and perhaps it is...(another debate!) but for every child 'wrongly' labelled, I'll bet there are 50 others who never receive the diagnosis they need. And the reason they need it is that there is little or no funding for support for children without a diagnosed SEN once they are in school. This isn't really a concern for you now, and perhaps it never will be, but I thought I should point this out in case there are other parents reading this and going through similar.

Good luck whatever happens. Three is very young and hopefully he will settle down soon enough.

I just wanted to add that a diagnosis of ASD esp Aspergers, is extremely difficult to get. Many children can quite clearly be identified at 3 but unfortunately, in this country, it often takes much longer.

He may well be at the high-functioning end of the Spectrum but that cannot be determined from your posts or even by the nursery Senco. That requires a Paed or a clinical psychologist. If Nursery are noticing traits, all that indicates is the need for assessment. Many toddlers, esp boys show some traits which they grow out of but an experienced paediatrician will know the difference and you will not end up with a label of ASD if he does not have it.

Ladymary and lovingthecoast. Thank you both for you posts. They make alot of sense. In all honesty he's my little boy and the idea of anything being not right for him makes me feel like I've failed him altho i know this is an emotional (and prob hormonal reaction too). I hate being focus of attention and don't like the same for my children. This thread has helped a great deal and making me understand processes and also that he may well benefit if he indeed has needs. Xx

We have a parents meeting coming up soon. I think If they are still voicing concerns then I'll agree to him having someone observe him. Tho today was his first full session which had a few tears as they didn't understand he wanted to play with hulahoops in garden (large plastic hoops) and wasn't asking to eat hula hoops.. Bless him. And she made a point he'd been picking his nose. Prob cos it was full of bogies as he had a cold last week and been crying at preschool. Hardly a concern fgs, I've seen plenty of adults driving with fingers stuck up theirs.

On a separate matter, he's quite upset over order of things at mo. Not sure if because back at preschool or baby due soon or something else. An example was getting out of bath. Dh lifted him on to mat and ds had to climb back in and get out on to stool then mat. I think it's most likely that he's tired and got enough changes and he's wanting some control.

Hello, former SENCO here!
By asses they mean they will take a series of observations of his behaviour and compare what he does to 'developmental norms'(how children normally behave at a certain age). People do it all the time in their heads, but this is a more careful, more in depth way of doing it.
The results could be:
-That everything is actually fine and the staff were wrong to be concerned (But not wrong to check it out).
-He might need a bit of help in a certain area eg taking part in group time. The staff would draw up an action plan of ways to help. Staff might try giving him a 'special' cushion, or they might as for a list of his favourite songs for them to sing to encourage him for a couple of weeks. They would then observe again to see if it worked and possibly try something else if it didn't.
-They might want to refer their concerns on to somebody more expert on the matter, but that would require your help.
Nursery staff are not doctors and cannot shouldn't diagnose anything.

Just quick update. Hv called and long convo. She reiterated that she felt ds was fine and also reminded me that he has alot of changes, starting preschool and new baby due pretty much any day now and they haven't/hadnt even had ds2 for the eqiivilant of a weeks worth of sessions. I've been putting him in now full 3 hours and only had one day where they called (see prev post where they hadn't understood what he was saying). He's been off this week as has throat infection. Anyway hv plan was that she observe a session nearer Xmas when ds been there longer and also hopefully new baby less of a big change. She also said about educational toys/activities for him as clearly bright. I need to look at what other early years education there is around here as ultimately want ds happy and I do fee the chief practioner has issue with me x

Hi op,
He sounds like a bright chap to me. I have three dc's and at his age my boy was ahead of his peers in terms reading/ writing / maths et. But socially immature. It's sorted itself out over the last year. But he still occasionally will roar at his friends when he would rather be a dinosaur etc! It's normal!
Also, is he your eldest? In my case, he was always playing very well with dd who is 12 months younger and they've sort of morphed into the same age. Whereas dc3 is much older than here years as she has older siblings.
Really, sounds normal to be.

Ps. Other thing - if he's bright then he might be finding preschool boring!

Mummyinggnome, he's my ds2 his brother is 8 years older. Ds2 definitely learning social stuff, at present he's going up to other kids and grown ups trying to include them in whatever has taken his interest, the other day he was giving out dandelions and leaves lol. Also personal space of others has not yet been learnt. I recall wry ds1 similar stage x

Hi, Until recently I was an advisory teacher and Area Senco - I would have been first to be called in by staff if your child had been in my area. Firstly - they cannot get anyone in to see you child without your express permission. If you make it clear you do not want an assessment they would be breaking the law to ask anyone outside of their own staff to assess him. Secondly he is only three - very young andif everything you say is true then he is doing really well. Thirdly - staff should do the 5 - 1 rule which means telling you five positive things before even mentioning any concern. And lastly - listen to what they have to say - try to be open minded - and then make your own decision. He is your child and you know him best. Legally he does not have to attend any daycare setting or school until the term after he is five.

Menopausemum - thank you. Didn't think they could assess him without consent, so relief to have that confirmed. He's back there tomorrow after been off all week with throat infection. He's turned into a limpet, think he knows baby going to arrive very soon . Anyway, everything I've put here is true, no point in doing otherwise. Went to farm today and he was properly playing with a 5 year old boy who he approached. Was delightful and very funny to watch them monster chase game. I'm feeling so much more chilled out about it as when I see him with other kids, he doesn't stick out as different at all in a social way. I'll just see what happens x

Well parents evening tonight and dh went. Went very well, he's settling in well, joining in and no concerns absolutely nothing said about assessing. She highlighted how good he is at numbers and sequencing and went through his book. Literally all positive comments and none negative.

here we go again. Asked if ds could not attend local school nativity, asked when I collected him why and the same woman (she runs it) said that he'd disrupt it and doesn't sit for circle time anymore than 3 minutes and been very upset (crying) and they don't know why. She also didn't want him in the preschool nativity either Hea not being naughty and this is first I've been told an issue since being told he's doing well. He has a new sister (month old) and dh back at work so he doesn't get same level of attention from me as used to. Feel like the worst parent ever. She alas was very defensive and I promise I was calm and listened and non confrontational. Just dot know what to do. I want ds to be happy and if he's so why haven't they called me?

Also on top of new sister, stopping bf, dh back to work, lack of mummy time he's also had this awful cough cold bug and so been off a few seasons too.

That's crap!!! I would be bloody furious, and further more i dont actually think they are allowed to do that, i know for a fact that couldnt do that to a child with SNs its discriminating why on earth can they not support him and help him NOT to be disruptive?

You know i think id give Parent partnership a call and see what they have to say.

I have to be honest an tell you lots of what you have written here sounds a lot like my DD1. She too at that age was amazingly clever (and still is), could count up to whatever (1000s) could read and was basically like a sponge for information, she never forgets anything so learning in lots of respects very easy for her. She could never sit still at circle/snack time and would flit around activities at lightning speed. There was also lots of other issues (mainly regarding social interaction), she did go on to be diagnosed with Aspergers when she was 4.

The nursery your son is at does not sound to me to be very SNs friendly at all to me, is it a school nursery? i think i would also consider having a look at other nurseries to tbh. Sorry i know you have alot on your plate on the moment but i think you need to have a long hard think about if this is the right place for him.

I do feel he needs to be assessed but im not convinced i would want this nursery to be the ones to do it. Have another chat with your health visitor, from your posts she sounds supportive. If indeed he does have special needs the sooner these are picked up on, or ruled out the better.

Very surprised that at nursery they're expecting children under 4 to sit still for long periods.
Makes me wonder how strict they need to be to enforce that.

I'd be looking for somewhere else where children can be children.

All my kids went to a nursery where they played outside almost every day and it was a choice if they wanted to sit and listen to the stories etc.

I spoke to staff at sure start yesterday afternoon Baby group as they have play leader for older kids. I was quite stressed about it all and they were great. Said (from watching ds) that he seems like any other kittle boy of his age in terms of how he was playing and running around. The inclusion coordinator called today and is not at all happy ds is excluded from nativity and said that they should look at how they can accommodate him not exclude him. Also discussed her assessing, se said its not about diagnosig ds (she couldn't anyway) but getting the preschool to meet his needs and not making him sit for circle time etc. I actually woke in tears last night over this. I'm not keen on moving him as so much change recently but considering it. He said to me this morning "I miss you all the time mummy" bless him. So much change. X

Thanks 3cutedarlings - your dd does sound similar. I just want da happy and feel like itself fault he's not

Roamin - I agree but limited alternatives but I am looking x

I've just read this from start to finish (hadn't realised it was over several months from OP) and I am more and more convinced that it's actually this particular woman who has a problem with your son.

He sounds like a lovely child, many of whom have their own little quirks at this age.

The 'banning' incident sounds completely unfair- I hope he isn't aware of the bar she's put on him? Poor little boy! Many, many 3yo cannot sit down at circle time FGS- that's part of going to pre-school isn't it? So children can learn about how they'll be expected to behave in school, and be prepared for it.

I do hope the inclusion co-ordinator gets something done about this.

Right, discussed with dh and have left message for inclusion co-ordinator to call. Going to agree to assessment and also would like her to sort with preschool ds being including in nativity visit and partaking in the preschool one too. The more I think on it the more cross I feel. It is discrimination more so as the woman concerned seems sure ds has needs (which they don't seem to want to address, and want him to meet their needs instead). Thanks ladies, it helps getting it on paper so to speak x

Good for you Awen! i see absolutely no reason why your DS should not be included in both activities. Our school has a really high percentage of children with SNs and they are all included in EVERYTHING! this includes overnight residential trips.

To be totally honest a nursery/school that tries to exclude children with any sort of SNs/additional needs ect ect is a big red flag Awen so be ready for the next time they try and pull a fast one like this.

I have been to preschool and they are happy that he will be assessed. One comment they made was perhaps this setting isn't suited to him. Their concerns about nativity is that he may climb on the stage or just be very upset and not enjoy it. They implied it was me wanting him to go for me, which I clarified that I'd like him to have same opportunity and experiences as his peer group. I've done some more research and looking at it from a distance it seems to me he's an intelligent energetic little boy who is into everything. I am not convinced he has a specific need other than maturity which will come in time. The preschool says he has lack of spatial awareness as he runs without thinking of who's in the way (clearly a safety issue and needs to be addressed), however la k of spatial awareness is far more far reaching and I don't think that's a term is apply to ds. He charges around playing chase with is elder bro and misses objects and furniture at home and in playgrounds. He's able to climb to top of climbig frame and physically able. Tho he does also have falls and just gets up and carries on. Most recently it was somersaulting downstairs.

They are speaking crap Awen, you show me a 3 year old that wouldnt want to run on a stage? . There will be children there that dont enjoy it, that cant sit still ect, some of them will be children from your DS nursery some of them will siblings there with their parents. For me something is just not adding up here tbh.