Quick poll - Pg ladies, how pg are you and will you be having the swine flu jab?

[laurawantsababy]

I am 25 weeks pg with dc2 and very confused.

After another death but with conflicting advice about the jab chosen for the UK what are we to do??

I would love you here everyones choice and thoughts on it to help me out.

Thanks

NCT link which has a section about newborns and swine flu.

www.nct.org.uk/info-centre/information/view-117#babies

I actually think the true answer is that nobody knows.

There's not enough data about babies catching swine flu as they are quite rightly being protected from infection by other children and adults as much as possible.

Thank you midnightsun for the information you've posted on the risk of mercury in the jab.

I have to be honest and say that it's not the mercury content I'm worried about - because as you say, the amount is so small, we already have mercury in our diet through fish and it's in the Anti D jab which is routinely given to pregnant women if you're a negative blood group (which I am).

What concerns me the most is the use of adjuvants which boosts the effectiveness of the drug (and therefore it can be thinned out and made more cheaply). The risk with this ingredient is that it promotes the body to fight all foreign bodies in the blood. Fine for a normal person but whilst pregnant, your immune system is surpressed specifically to support your unborn child. The risk of hyper immune response has been raised which means that your body could go into overdrive and attack/reject your baby.

The Pendemrix jab contains adjuvants but Celvapan does not and the latter is only being given to those with a very specific egg allery (the vaccine is made in eggs).

I think I'd consider taking the Celvapan jab if it were offered to me but, after a year of trying for a baby and now carrying twins (21wks), I very reluctant to accept a type of jab that the WHO is not recommending for pregnant women.

I think a petition is being started at No 10 Downing Street to put pressure on the government to give us a choice between the 2 jabs but I've never known them to listen. Perhaps a low take up rate amongst pregnant women will prove how anxious we all are.

IF one were to get immunised, as of what stage in pregnancy would it be recommended?

In Germany where btw there is the below mentioned contoversy as the gov't seems to have ordered Celvapan for military and gov't officials, and Pandemrix for the "general public" the recommendation seems to be as of the 4th month (so I guess as of week 13). The recommendation for pregnant women seems to go towards Celvapan as opposed to Pandemrix due to the adiuvans, as so many of you suggested already.

23 weeks pregnant with my 4th. I think I've had it (swine flu). Have been seriously ill for 3 months, developed pneumonia, suspected blood clot and now settled into asthma. I've had 2 x-rays, a CT scan and 4 lots of strong antibiotics.

Given the complications I have had, it has made me change my normal view about the jag - if it avoids what I have had - it is probably worth doing.

But in short, I will not be having the jab - think my unborn baby has had enough to contend with to date. I don't know what damage has been caused by the above list of problems....

JuliaGulia, I do agree with you: offered the choice I'd go for the vaccine without mercury or adjuvant although I have no idea whether it is more or less effective and I'm sure there are also some small side effect risks with that one too.

I read yesterday that in Germany pregnant women and key government employees are getting Celvapan but the rest of the population is only being offered Pandemrix! It doesn't exactly inspire confidence does it to give one to the 'special' people and one to Joe Public.

In Canada they are evaluating holding off vaccinating pregnant women until Celvapan is available to them. In the USA they don't use adjuvants (or at least squalene) in vaccines at all full stop, I think.

Anyway, since I don't have a choice over which one I have (unless I wait until next summer) I'd rather have the Pandemrix vaccine ASAP than none.

That's also the WHO guidelines. It's not quite true to say Pandemrix is not recommended by the WHO, it is actually recommended by them for vaccinating pregnant women where the (preferable) adjuvant-free one is not available.

joesgirl, the advice is to be immunised in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, after 13 weeks.

The baby's organs and nerve system are in a much more fragile development stage in the first trimester so most experts agree it is best to avoid taking any chances.

Although they do say that if you are in another high risk group for swine flu (immune diseases, respiratory conditions etc.) the risk of vaccinating in the first trimester may be worth taking, each individual case needs to be assessed by the care provider that knows the full medical history.

A lot of useful information midnightsun - many thanks.

I'm still unsure. Although having heard a piece on the radio this morning about how flu affects pregnant women in the third trimester particularly, as their lungs are squashed, I may be tending more towards having the vaccine.

If and when it is offered. I haven't heard anything yet.

Thanks to everyone who has posted a link on here with evidence, research, news articles and to those with background in medicine. It would be great if everyone who has a doctors appointment coming up could ask the advice of their GP and post here, just so we can get as wider view as possible.

I'm so in turmoil over this as many of you are. I would have it if they could prove with evidence that it's safe, but would still do it through tears.

I have a 32 week appointment on Friday morning - i will ask about it then and update (although may need reminding as i have a brain like a sieve these days!)

Apologies if this has already been posted (too many pages to read through) but I've just seen this...

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/12/swine-flu-vaccine-safe-pregnancy

26 weeks, asthmatic, high-risk pregnancy and will be having it as soon as possible.

In the meantime I am avoiding going to public places where close proximity to others is inevitable (theatre, cinema, church, etc) and wear a mask (of the kind used in infectious diseases wards) if I have to go on the tube, train, plane. Wash hands very frequently and carry alcohol gel rub for when handwashing is not possible. This is on medical advice. I do get some funny looks ( and the odd fake cough aimed straight at my face by ignorant co-commuters who clearly do not know that many people need to be particularly careful with infections, e.g. those who are having chemiotherapy) but figure a bit of embarassment is ok as compared with putting the pregnancy at risk.

Great info being posted. Its surprising to see how different countries are going about things.

I am still waiting for my petition to be approved. Anyone got any ideas how long it takes??

Seeing as Gordon Brown was in MN HQ maybe we could get the petition emailed to him!

If I have no response by tomorrow morning I will chase it up.

Just re checked the website, it can take up to 5 working days to be approved! As soon as it is I will post it all around MN!

I'm 10 weeks pregnant with twins, I've just miscarried one of them this weekend and will not be prepared to lose another....No i will not be having it.

Had an appointment with my midwife today.

I'm 32 weeks, and am being offered to have the vaccine this thursday.

Am in sweden, but it's the same as the UK - pandemerix being offered to pregnant women, not cevlapan. I voiced my concern about thimerosal and squalene content. She said that the thimerosal content is so low as to be considered safe, but she didn't know anything about squalene. She said she assumed it had been tested on pregnant animals - anyone know for sure if this is the case?

She also said that (other factors excepted), as soon as you give birth, you'd no longer be considered in a high risk group for swine flu - all because the lungs are no longer squashed up.

She said I could consider having the vaccination after giving birth - anyone know if any of the immunity would pass to the baby through breastmilk (and any of the nasties too of course)? Kellymom suggests there may be some benefit, but not as great as when the immunities are passed on through the placenta
www.kellymom.com/health/meds/vaccine-protection.html

Am completely undecided on the vaccine. Thursday may be my only chance to get it (though I have to phone my local surgery to check), but the figures where I live (gothenburg) show a decline in swine flu cases over the last few weeks. They expect there to be another peak in spring 2010, but I would have an unvaccinated newborn by then if I decide not to vaccinate now.

Also (and sorry if this has already been covered), anyone know why the regular seasonal flu vaccine is not normally offered to pregnant women?

I have read somewhere that the vaccine offers some protection to the baby via the placenta. Im going to bf this baby too as that should offer some extra protection.

I will be very interested to see if people who have had swine flu get offered the vaccine as I thought you could only get it once??

db240877 Sorry to hear of you loss Understandable that you dont want to risk it.

Here Pregnant can have the seasonal flu vaccine.

Interestingly it states that pregnant women should be offered Thiomersel free jab. But, if thats not available we should the one with Thiomersel in.

My petition has been rejected

Their reasons is - Its classed as being in the following categories Potentially libellous, false, or defamatory statements.

I am going to re submit it. I think they are going to reject it every time though, they wouldnt want to be seen as backing us on this one.

I am undecided.

I asked a GP this morning who said that her official line was yes, but she wouldn't take it if she was pregnant.

I may think differently if i were high risk, or due in the winter, but i'm not due until may, so the worst should be well over by my last trimester. And despite knowing that my immunity should be lower in PG, i didn't get a single cold last time and haven't this: despite DD and my nanny having a really bad one at the moment.

I also suspect that i've had it already- my nanny and DD were really sick in May and someone in DD's playgroup had it. So why take a risk?

I too would be interested to find out if the PG women who died either had underlying conditions, or didn't manage their symptoms early enough.

WE know that having a high temp is dangerous for unborn babies, so take paracetamol and bring it down. WE know that dehydration is risky, so force the fluids in. I don't know what the risks are for this new vaccine, but the contradictory information is not helpful: if it is so safe, why not give it in the first trimester? Obviously the most developmentally important stage, but they wouldn't advise not to have it in the first trimester if they knew there was no risk at all to the foetus.

I'm 34 weeks on Wednesday and no way am I having the jab.

laurawantsababy, I'm surprised to hear the petition has been rejected. Surely the WHO advice is sensible, and you are merely requesting that pregnant women are offered the vaccine recommended by the WHO? Hope you can change the wording and try again.

As for the other question of what happens to those who have already had swine flu, I expect to be offered the vaccine as my swine flu wasn't confirmed by a laboratory test. The official NHS line is "You can only be certain that you have had swine flu if it was confirmed by a laboratory test. Otherwise, you may have had normal flu or something else. Unless you know for sure that you have had swine flu, and are in one of the high-risk groups, you should have the vaccination."

But guess what, I'm not going to have it, Although I would have it if there was some evidence that it is safe to have the adjuvanted vaccine in pregancy, especially if it gives some additional protection to the baby that it would not have already by me having had swine flu.

I have resubmitted it.

I have now worded it so that is says pregnant women should have the choice of which jab they have.

I will keep you posted...

Good point about the jab. I had forgotten that to start with they swabbed people.

midnightsun many thanks for providing us with so much detail it was kind of you to take the time.

Laurawantsababy, good luck with the petition this time around.... can I ask who decides whether the petition is accepted or rejected? where are you sending it to?