Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Quick poll - Pg ladies, how pg are you and will you be having the swine flu jab?

718 replies

laurawantsababy · 15/10/2009 18:37

I am 25 weeks pg with dc2 and very confused.

After another death but with conflicting advice about the jab chosen for the UK what are we to do??

I would love you here everyones choice and thoughts on it to help me out.

Thanks

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Patsy99 · 20/10/2009 16:21

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/Swine_flu/article6731659.ece

Here is the link I mentioned below - the research tracked 34 pregnant US women between April - May this year (sorry for previous inacurracy). 6 of them died.

midnightsun · 20/10/2009 16:32

*hannahsaunt" when I looked at the product info / packaging leaflets on the EMEA site they both said with identical wording:

"Tell your doctor if you are pregnant, think you may be pregnant, plan to become pregnant. You should discuss with your doctor whether you should receive Pandemrix/Cevlapan. The vaccine may be used during breast-feeding."

Where's the bit about not being recommended for pregnancy and under-9's?

We need somebody who works in regulatory affairs to explain how this process works. I have no idea.

midnightsun · 20/10/2009 16:43

I am finding this debate so useful, particularly as I have already decided to go for the jab and I do worry that I might be being very naive, it's good when people raise their concerns and skepticism. As a complete layman it's good to share sources and interpretations and chew everything over with others.

All debates I have seen while researching the subject on other parenting websites always appear to descend into a personal slanging match about who is doing the most responsible thing for their unborn baby. I read a thread where one expectant mother said to another "Go ahead and have the damn vaccine, I couldn't care less and I won't feel sorry for you when your baby comes out deformed either." Another one claimed that her GP told her that it had been proven that the vaccine causes stillbirth and that he was awaiting data on this from the USA. This is completely impossible of course as it was about a fortnight ago, nobody had even taken delivery of the vaccine, so they cannot have begun immunising pregnant women. As if that would have escaped media attention as well. It's shocking what we're up against when trying to get the real facts.

Real breath of fresh air to see it kept topical on here.

Thanks everyone.

pofacedandproud · 20/10/2009 16:46

I wish we could get the Flumist inhaled vaccine here - no adjuvants, but don't know if it is suitable for pregnant women, as it is a weakened live virus.

midnightsun · 20/10/2009 16:57

I think that one is not recommended for pregnant woman precisely because it's live, if I read articles in the Washington Post correctly.

lucybrad · 20/10/2009 17:06

dont know if anyone on here has mentioned it already, as not had time to look through the posts but Frgus on flu - on the bbs news website has a section today about the vaccine and pregnany ladies.

lucybrad · 20/10/2009 17:07

here www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ferguswalsh/

lucybrad · 20/10/2009 17:09

sorry looks like that was written a couple of days ago so probably old news now, although he seems to know what hes on about

JuliaGulia · 20/10/2009 17:20

midnightsun
Here's the link which I hope now works.

If not go to the WHO site and click on the media centre. It's on the centre of the page listed as 'Pandemnic H1N1 2009 Press Briefings Audio Visual Files and Transacript'.

www.who.int/mediacentre/pandemic_h1n1_presstranscript_2009_09_24.pdf

I phoned my doctors to ask if they have a set allocation of Celvapan vaccines to offer but they said they are expecting their first batch of vaccines next week but have absolutely no idea of how many or what type.

Given that my midwife said 'don't you dare' and my obst said 'your risking your life if you don't' I'm so confused!

JuliaGulia · 20/10/2009 17:31

midnightsun - on second thoughts, I'll have another look on the internet as the link doesn't seem to be the article I read. Bear with me...

catski · 20/10/2009 17:59

I've changed my mind and decided to have the vaccine. No I'm not. Yes I am. No I'm not.

Agh!

Looking at the current figures again for my area - the number of people with swine flu is 13.5 in every 100,000. I seem to remember reading that pandemic levels are considered to be about 200 in every 100,000, which makes my area far from a pandemic at the moment.

Anyone know what the general levels are for regular flu? I was pregnant over the winter last time and it never crossed my mind to get a flu vaccine (nor was it offered).

ReneRusso · 20/10/2009 18:03

Patsy99, the rate of deaths was 1/34 not 6/34 in that study you refer to. It says that 5 more pregnant women went on to die in the subsequent month, but these 5 were not from the original group of 34 observed in the first month. 1/34 is still not great but not nearly so bad as 6/34.

sally78 · 20/10/2009 19:34

Having now read all through this post and spoken to GP and MW I will be having the jab. They pointed out that as I am due over Christmas/New Year levels of Swine Flu will rise as people are all together in small spaces etc and even after the baby is born, they are at risk of me NOT having the vaccine as I could pass the virus onto baby if I catch it.

laurawantsababy · 20/10/2009 20:26

I have had a look today for some info about the Australian jab that someone mentioned earlier.

Does anyone know which MNetter moved to OZ?? I know they still used MN, it would be interesting to see what they could find out.

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laurawantsababy · 20/10/2009 20:30

Quite scary statistics

Not sure how accurate this one is

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waitingwaiting · 20/10/2009 20:32

I think this story which was in the New York Times about a pregnant womans battles with swine flu basically sums up why we should all be considering the swine flu jab.... it really hit home to me:

Yesterday (19 oct), the New York Times told the story of Andrea Opdyke, a 27-year-old woman who was pregnant when she contracted swine flu last June. What began as mild symptoms of aches and fatigue turned into a harrowing four month ordeal. Writes reporter John McNeil:

In the four months she was hospitalized, she spent five weeks in a coma, suffered six collapsed lungs and a near-fatal seizure. High-pressure ventilation blew her up like a molten balloon until ?she looked like she weighed 400 pounds,? her husband, Bryan, said, and she has stretch marks from her neck to her ankles. Her muscles and lungs are still so weak that she uses a walker.While hospitalized, she missed seeing her 4-year-old daughter, Hope, learn to swim and start pre-school.

And, most important, she lost her baby. Parker Christine Opdyke, almost 27 weeks in the womb, was delivered by emergency Caesarean section on July 18, when her fetal heart rate plummeted during Ms. Opdyke?s third lung collapse. Her airways were too blocked to let a breathing tube in, possibly a side effect of the drugs saving her mother. She lived seven minutes.

For reference & further write up see link:
www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/10/20/swine-flu-and-the-abortion-debate/ #

laurawantsababy · 20/10/2009 20:35

I am quite worried about what is going to happen a few months down the line.

What happens if we all have the jab then they decide they shouldnt have given it to us. A friend of mine was born with only one arm. Her mum was given that drug that was 'safe' (I cant remember what it was called) but it was in the 70's. Only when babies were born with defects did they stop using it.

I do want to have the jab now but to say Im still worried is an understatement.

I see Gordon Brown has updated his MN live chat questions. He has put in that that Pandemrix is safe for pg women. Surprise surprise.

Somehow I dont think my petition will get approved this time either!!

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waitingwaiting · 20/10/2009 20:38

just adding to my previous posting re swine flu and pregnant womans ordeal:

A New York times link:

www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/health/20pregnant.html?_r=1

also a New York article dated 19th October reports:

Pregnant women appear to be highly vulnerable to serious complications from swine flu. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that since April, 100 pregnant women have been in intensive care with swine flu and 28 have died.

well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/19/a-pregnant-womans-story-of-swine-flu/

laurawantsababy · 20/10/2009 20:40

That is very scary waitingwaiting.

Its stories like that that make me think I will defo have the jab. Then I will read something else and I think nope, dont want it.

It is such a hard decision. I know that when I am offered it I will be a bag of nerves until my baby is born safely at the end of January.

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midnightsun · 20/10/2009 20:48

pofacedandproud I can't find anything that says FluMist contains a live vaccine and it appears that is in fact what is on offer to pregnant women in the US, so my apologies for the too-quick reply earlier.

USA Today article

Swine flu vaccine arrives, and the scramble begins
www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-10-01-swine-flu-vaccine_N.htm

Slightly alarming article in the Washington Post about raised rate of flu deaths among children and young people

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/16/AR2009101601833.html

pofacedandproud · 20/10/2009 20:59

do you think there is any chance of getting the flu mist privately in uk? Probably not...

midnightsun · 20/10/2009 21:01

laurawantsababy is it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide thalidomide that your friend's mum was given? it was for morning sickness and they discovered that it caused deformities to the fetus. The extra tricky thing with that is that it is a potent drug and due to the treatment was administered in the first trimester, when morning sickness is worst. The medical and pharmaceutical professions learned enormous lessons from that and it led to all drugs being much more strictly researched and tested.

In the 2nd and 3rd trimester the baby is more or less fully formed, it just has to mature. I'm a bit nervous about nerve diseases such as GBS which was linked to the swine flu vaccine in 1976 and also some people believe that the adjuvant in the anthrax vaccine given to Gulf War soldiers is the cause of Gulf War Syndrome. But it all seems to be speculation. Very valid fears but they have not proved that these things were connected.

Given the numerous waves of controversy around vaccines full stop and drugs in pregnancy I am hoping/trusting that the experts have learned from these experiences and are not about to repeat their mistakes. We can't take that for granted, of course. But I don't like the alternative.

I live in the centre of a capital city, my son goes to a kindergarten with 90 other kids, my colleagues all have kids at school. I just feel that washing my hands, avoiding crowds and public transport and using antibac periodically isn't going to be enough.

So many killer illnesses (polio, smallpox, measles, mumps, German measles, tuberculosis) have been made more or less irrelevant in the western world by vaccines. I'm consciously choosing to hear the negative sides and worries about a vaccine for a new pandemic and then ponder them, rationalise them but ultimately file them away so I can attempt to believe that overall it's going to be fine.

MonstrousMerryHenry · 20/10/2009 21:04

waitingwaiting - I know you mean well, but I think you should read the whole of this thread to give you a balanced viewpoint on the risks swine flu poses to pregnant women.

Several women on this thread have already had it during pregnancy and are fine, no coma or ballooning, in fact no complications full stop. As well as that, I posted a quote from an NHS website that totally contradicted your claim that preg women are at 'high risk' of complications - in fact it said we are at "low risk" and the symptoms are normally mild.

Please don't add to the hype, it's really unhelpful.

MonstrousMerryHenry · 20/10/2009 21:06

Just heard back from a German midwife friend of mine, who says there is no way she would touch such a new vaccine, whether preg or no. She recommends doing all you can to stay healthy - including exercise to boost immunity. She also says that in Germany swine flu is hardly being reported at all. So why are the UK still making it out to be such a big deal if other countries are not?

Since GB's office is keeping track of this thread, perhaps someone from No 10 or the Dept of Health would like to give an answer to that question?

pofacedandproud · 20/10/2009 21:11

We do have many more cases than rest of Europe as far as I know.

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