Pregnant but dh not happy

[JanZ]

..... and that's an understatement.

I "announced" my pregnancy on the diet thread, but it's not really the appropriate place to go into the issues, so I've come here for support and advice.

I am 7 weeks pregnant - due middle of January. This pregnancy was not planned, although I was wanting another one (I'm 42 and I never wanted ds, 2 and 1/2, to be an only child), but dh is really upset and annoyed about it.

He's really concerned that he feels trapped: that as he's 43 now (44 at end of June), he'll now have to work until he's 65 and doesn't see any quality of life ahead for us - and is really worried about what it will do for ds's quality of life.

He is concerned that, as he took a package at the end of November and had slowly been exploring options, that "last week he was on holiday, this week he is unemployed". He has been doing some work for someone, who he was considering going into business with (including putting in some equity), but now feels that he will either feel he has been press ganged into that - and yet the business might fail, (and then what would happen, as he would be even older, looking for an executive position) or that he should walk away and find "a proper job".

He is furious at me for not even considering a termination - he regards it as a lack of consideration for him. His argument is that I did it before when I was 22, without feeling any guilt or remorse (which is true, I didn't and don't), so why can't I do it now. My argument is that I was a different person at 22, I wasn't with him, I hadn't had a baby and I wasn't 42. I CAN'T get rid of this potential sibling for ds. I am however prepared to do CVS to check for genetic problems, as I too don't want to impact on ds's quality of life (don't really want to get into a debate about the ethics of that - it's just the way I feel).

I don't undertand dh's concerns about money and quality of life. We are sitting on liquid assets of about £100k (premium bonds, instant access savings and ISAs) (although £15k of that is due in tax next January), a mortgage of only £10k on a house worth over £200k (used some of his package to pay it off, but it's a flexible mortgage, so we can put it back up again easily), plus have over £30k of shares, endowments etc.

On my salary alone, we can manage confortably (even assuming I don't get any bonuses, which are potentially very generous) and I have even produced a budget which shows that we could survive (albeit being reasonably sensible) on the maternity package (which is a generous one of half pay plus SMP). He says that's not the point - it's the overall quality of life and all the years afterwards - and what happens if I'm NOT able to go back to work. And what happens if it's twins.

He wants to put off doing the kitchen (major work involving changing rooms and putting in a new window). I've said I'm not keen on doing such work AFTER a baby had arrived - and I also feel it's important to get ourselves a decent sized dining kitchen so I can look after two kids while I'm in the kitchen. I did suggest delaying some of the purchases, like the Amercian style frdge freezer that I would like, but he just saw that as a rejection of his suggestion. As it is, he complains that he has to bear the majority of the burden of looking after ds in the evenings - mostly because I am preparing dinner in the kitchen which is too small to have me plus ds in it. (I also go out one night a week to Pilates, one night a month to a girls' investment club and am maybe late home one night a week due to having to go to London on business: he is now complaining about those too).

Sorry for rambling on, but I need to get this off my chest. Wickedwaterwitch, in congratulating me on the other thread (thanks WWW!) asked if dh was likely to come around. The answer is I don't think so.

We both took Friday off to try to talk things through, and spent most of the day arguing and me in tears. There is just no middle ground. We're now either avoiding the issue (and being relatively civil) or on the point of starting to argue again.

If dh were happy, I'd be able to really enjoy this pregnancy. As it is, I'm miserable.

Where do I/we go from here?

JanZ ... I am so sorry ... I don't know what to say ... I am useless at advice for things like this but I do know that if DH announced he didn't want any more children when I was already pregnant I would be totally floored ...
It seems very cruel of your DH ... but I don't know you/him or your life ...
I hope you find a solution to this as a termination would obviously be heartbreaking for you ...
Thinking of you ...
Lots of Love G xxxx

Don't give up hope that he might come round.

I'm 19 weeks pregnant, I found out I was pregnant 2 days before my period was due after just having a stong hunch. I had an IUD in, which was removed when I was 8 weeks gone.

To say my DH was devestated would not be an understatement. I have a DD who is now 4 from my first marriage, who DH and I have been raising together since she was 1, so he totally regards her as his own. However he feels that as I already had her he had a choice about it all.

He passionately feels that he has lost all say in the direction his life has taken with this unplanned baby though. He also thought I was being completely unreasonable not wanting to even contemplate a termination. I'm 26 so he reasoned that there would be other chances later. But I have wanted to have a child WITH him since we got together was was delighted my contraception had failed so spectaculary.

Due to my having an IUD in when I go pregnant I had to have 4 scans before it could be confirmed that this was not an ectopic pregnancy. When he say the baby's heartbeat for the first time and it was confirmed that this was not an ectopic pregnancy he actually cried at the hospital. Not with happiness but out of pure misery. He had pined his hopes on this being a non viable pregnancy.

Once I had made it clear that I wanted to have this baby he went into somesort of withdrawl for weeks. We couldn't even make eye contact.

Financially we are in a terrible position. For the first 18 months he lived in the UK he wasn't allowed to work, being a US citizen, waiting for paperwork to be sorted out. Then he got a temp job and since June last year has been unemployed. He has gone back to college to gain some more qulaifications. We live entirely on my disablity benefits (of course I am also not in the best of health to have this baby, but to me that is secondary).

He has very slowly begun to accept that this is really happening and that if he wants us to remain a family then we will have to make it work. Last week, on the one night a week my DD is at my mums, he lay next to me, put his hand on my belly and said 'I love you guys'. I have tears in my eyes thinking about it! He still strongly feels that this is the wrong time to be expanding the family. I think that everyone has an idea of what they want their life to be like and when it doen't work out that way its a dream that dies, and this is where his pain is coming from. I think that DH imagines the reality of having the baby to be terrible, but once DD2 gets here I really do think that most of his fears won't come to pass.

So I'm not really enjoying this pregnancy, it's been physically awful anyway, and I'm prone to frequent crying fits that he doesn't want the baby and that it makes me feel differently about him. I get through by thinking that when he holds this baby in his arms he will wonder what he was so scared of.

Thanks Pie - at least we don't have the financial problems that you face (whatever dh thinks!).

Ghosty - dh is not being deliberately cruel. He did say to me at what point over the weekend, that I had to believe that he didn't want me to come to harm. I think he was quite hurt when I said I only partially believed him, as he wanted me to have a termination, which I knew would cause me mental harm and long term damage .... which he couldn't understand, as he knows that I've never been bothered by my termination of 20 years ago (etc etc).

Part of this is my fault, as I've been avoiding having the discussion with dh about when we would have another one. He's always known I wanted another one - but I had left it until he left his last job so that he wouldn't feel "trapped" (ds had been his reason for staying longer than he wanted in the organisation, which ultimately worked out well financially, as they then did another round of voluntary redundancies). Since then, I'd never felt the time was right to broach the subject - but had planned on talking to him some time around his brithday (or when I had reached 10 st, whichever was the sooner!)

He's now saying that we'd missed the boat age wise - and had been pushing it even when we had ds (also delayed until dh was "ready" - and even then he felt pressurised, although once ds arrived, he was like a dog with a thousand tails). So he'd never had agreed to another one.

I'd like to think he'll come around, but at the moment I don't see it. As it is, he says that if it weren't for ds, he'd have walked out.

Oh Janz (and you pie), I know I'm pregnant too and emotional but your posts made me cry. I'm so sorry you're going through this, although Pie, your dh does finally seem to be coming round, which is great news.

Janz, surely there must be something else at the root of his feelings? The money surely can't be an issue given the figures you've just given us, can it? Given that you could survive on your salary alone and considering your assets, I really can't see the problem financially. I do so agree with you about the terminations: one at 22 and one at 42 are such different things, a whole lifetime apart. It must be very upsetting that he's asking you to consider this now. (BTW, as an aside, you might not even have to have a cvs either, you could just go for a scan + blood tests etc and you might well find that further tests aren't recommended or necessary).

I think he's being selfish. I don't think it's such a big deal to ask him to look after your ds while you're cooking or when you have to work late/go out and the new kitchen still sounds like a very good idea to me and not crippling financially.

On the pregnancy front, it's not as if your ds is so old that you have your life back (in terms of him being independent or at school etc) although of course a baby is hard work and a different kettle of fish to a 2 yo. It's also not as if you have plenty of time to have another one. Has he always known you wanted another? What had you agreed between you on the subject? What are the circumstances of conception? (sorry, please don't answer that if you don't want to, but I just wonder whether he knew there was a possibility of pregnancy or whether he feels duped in some way?)

What about counselling? Would he agree to go? I can't think of what else to suggest except to keep talking and see if there's anything that will make him feel happier about this. What does he say if you ask him the question "what will make you happy about this?" I s the answer termination? Presumably he loves your ds and can see that the pain of the first few months is worthwhile? He wouldn't wish him away would he, so can he see ahead to this one being as loved? Sorry, this probably isn't very helpful, but I do feel for you and hope you can sort this out. I also hope lots of other people are happy for you and allow you to feel some joy in this pregnancy.

Janz, I just had another few thoughts too: this working til he's 65 business, what's that based on? Upbringing and then university fees? Just that 20 years is a long time hence to still be supporting a child and whilst I know they're not cheap to bring up, umm, surely you expect them to earn some of their own money at some stage? When they're in their 20s I should certainly think so, even if they are at university. Also, presumalby you've been working too and maybe you now think you'll have to work until you're 65 too, so what's the difference? (if he's basing all his calculations on 2 salaries) And, thirdly, lots of people don't have a choice, they HAVE to work until retirement, children or not. So what are his expectations and what are these based on (working and money etc) and could they be downgraded slightly? Sorry, getting a bit cross on your behalf now! Just wondered if you could get him to quantify and argue it out on that basis. Although this is probably all pointless since as I said, surely it isn't all about the money.

Janz, I really don't think that this is even partly your fault for not discussing it.

Perhaps I am old fashioned, but I think that if you are in a long term relationship, especially if you are married, and are having a sex life both partners must be prepared for a pregnancy, if you can't do the time then don't do the crime. If you are in a relationship where there is any level of love and understanding then you would surely know how the other person would react.

To clarify, DH knows I wanted another kid, I accepted that he didn't feel ready. So I had an IUD (I had it for 2.5 years before it failed). I have said to DH if he really was unprepared for the consequences he should have used extra protection or something.

I have no idea if this is making sense!!! The outcome of this thinking though was my screaming at my DH that he should grow up, nothing is 100% except abstinence.

I think that it is very cruel of you DH to say that the only reason he is staying is because of DS. I have to say that is my DH said something similar I would have said fine, you can see your DS whenever theres the door!!

I don't understand why having another so close to your DS would totally disrupt everything. I might understand if say your DS was already 10.

Really it doesn't sound that anything your DH has said is the real reason. You have to remember that your DH is probably in a profound state of shock and might not be able to understand what he is scared of. My DH was in shock for weeks, still is to an extent, and the fear was blinding. I found that the best thing to do was to simply show him that I could be strong and independent, that I was bloody well gonna do this whether he wanted this or not. I think that this helped DH to realise that the main thing he was doing was jepodizing our relationship as it was become apparent that I though I wanted him to be part of this I didn't need him to be.

I'm ranting now aren't I???

Thanks for your response wickedwaterwitch. As usual you get to the root of the problem(s)!

Dh has always had an issue with money and savings, (he would argue he doesn't), needing a high level to feel secure.

Part of it is our difference in backgrounds: I am typical middle class, who always assumes that things will work out (although when I was young, money was tight, as dad was a medical student paying his way through uni as a foreign student) - and have confidence in dh and his abilities and that he will be able to make money at whatever he turns his hand to (in fact I have been encouraging him to progress an idea he has to make money from a hobby he is passionate about - but he now feels he won't have the freedom to do that).

Dh on the other hand is "working class made good", and doesn't have that confidence.

You're right - part of the issue is that he half suspects that I have deliberately duped him. It is true - I had half considered it (and had read a recent thread on the subject with interest, but had to agree with the advice that was given, ie DON'T!) - especially as loads of people at work etc who asked if/when I was going to have another one, and I would say, I wanted one, but the time wasn't right for dh, and they would then say, "Oh, my wife never gave me any choice in the matter", or something along those lines - to which I always replied "I wouldn't/couldn't do that to dh".

As to how it happened: I was on the mini pill (Family Planning Clinic stopped my microgynon, which I preferred, as I had had one or two migraines, which had only started since I had ds) and can only assume that the dodgy tummies that both dh and I had for a few days a month or so back must have meant that they hadn't absorbed properly. As far as I can remember, I had always taken them within the 3 hour window.

I know that I could do a quadruple test plus nuchal fold, but they are not readily available up on Scotland (although I believe that they re doing some interesting trials at Glasgow Uni), so would have to go to London or Leeds. Plus they are just screening tests, and given my contraceptive failure, would not want to run the risk of being that "one in....." I remember last time getting pissed off at the doctor at the mternity hospital who couldn't understand why I pushed to understand the odds of my 16 week blood test, just telling me it was low risk and not understanding that it was UP TO ME to decide that 1 in 200 (which she eventually, reluctantly gave me) was an acceptably low risk. I may change my mind though. So I think I'd worry less if I went for the full diagnostic test (and a bit like Pie's dp with the scans, I don't think the 1-2% risk of miscarriage is going to concern dh).

I think the comments about "having to look after ds" were partly a combination of being hurt and also his sense of frustration at ds "taking over his life". Dh is always wanting to PLAN things and complains if he doesn't have free weekends to do things/catch up. I am always encouraging him to go out and play golf - he then complains that it takes a whole day, that he would rather spend with ds. I can't win. I try to encourage him to go out more often in the evening - so that I don't feel so "guilty" about my one night a week "pleasure" (although I'm not sure I would say that Pilates is pleasure!), but he doesn't. When I went through my depression last autumn, he asked what would help: I said I thought it would do both of us good if we had nights out on our own - that I needed to make more friends locally (The Girls Investment Club once a month is part of that). However, his objection seems to be that I hadn't AGREED the night out at Pilates - I had been going before I was pregnant and just assumed I would continue afterwards. I also didn't check with him before agreeing to join the Girls Investment Club (I thought I had discussed it with him, but it would appear I hadn't made it clear that it involved one Thursday out a month). (As an aside, I also suggested that what would help me was to get a cleaner - so that we could BOTH have time together - and that we should clear the kitchen up together after supper, so we could chat - neither of which has happened).

I think counselling would help - and he would agree to go. We have talked about it. It's just Relate has such long waiting lists - and this is an immediate issue. When I see the GP (who I've not been to yet), I'll see if he can recommned any private counsellors. Dh wants to talk things through with my parents (we've told no-one yet)(his own would be no good) - I'm happy to do so, but am worried that it might damage his good relationship with them. Or am I just assuming that they would "agree" that he was being unreasonable - and that he would then think that it was purely because I was their daughter, and we'd just be back at square one, if not worse.

Sorry again for rambling on.

Pie and WWW - our posts overlapped (mine was a bit long!).

WWW - re 65 and supporting kids - I have the same view as you, but dh says he doesn't want HIS kids to have to struggle. We just can't agree on that one. He also says that I am used to a particular standard of living and that we'd have to give up on things I enjoy, like exotic holidays. When I say that that's fine - we'd have to do that, or we have to budget to do things - he then says that HE doesn't want to have to live like that (maybe that's part of his fear of "getting like his siblings", who rely on income support and have to count every penny)

Pie - I agree - I think he is still in a state of shock. I'm just not sure our relationship will get through that shock, or that his feelings will change. It seems to have raised all sorts of other unresolved issues, both in our relationship (his view that I ALWAYS get my way, and don't listen to him, me thinking that I'm always trying to please him - irreconcilable things like that!), plus his own attitudes to money and the future.

Maybe things will get better. Maybe this will force us to address things that needed to be addressed anyway. Maybe.

Janz, (yep, I'm still here, hours later, but in my defence ds is away!) Oh, OK, so it's partly about lack of control then isn't it? If you didn't dupe him then he needs to know that and accept that it isn't your fault. Pie is right, no method is 100% and the pregnancy is his responsibility too.

I understand about the class thing and the different attitudes to money involved. I'd say I'm middle class too (by Custardo's definition of growing herbs anyway, we have a front garden full of 'em!) and IKWYM about thinking it probably will be ok financially, I certainly would too in your position. He sounds like a bit of a control freak who expects life to be plannable (not a real word but can't think of the right one) and highly organised. As we all know, children are chaotic and disorganised so are bound to throw him a bit if he can't relax about the lifestyle changes they bring.

It's good that he'll agree to counselling but I wouldn't involve your parents or anyone you know tbh, too personal IMHO. A counsellor will be a) trained and b) impartial so it's more likely he'll listen to their advice. I hope your doctor can recommend someone. Anyway, I really must get dressed now! I hope you're not offended by any of this, not meaning to slag off your dh, just trying to get to the root of it. Keep us posted.

JanZ, I know how the extra burden of dealing with the antenatal tests can make the issue extra confusing.

When I went for my routine 14 week booking scan, I was given a 1 in 300 chance for Downs and there were questions over the baby having spina bifida, all which came as a huge shock as I'm only 26. Between the 14 week scan and the 16 week amnio test I kept thinking that my DH really wanted something to be wrong as given my long term health problems and our finacial situation we would probably not have gone ahead with the pregnancy. I felt it wouldn't be fair on us all, and my mum as she cares for me and my DD when I have bad days. I couldn't express my fears or concerns as I kept thinking that for DH it would be the answer to all his prayers. DH could clearly see how frightened I was and when the amnio came back all clear I think it was only then that progress was made. He saw what the possiblity of not having this baby was doing to me, and when we knew this is a girl it made it a little more real.

Its really hard to fight your corner for keeping the baby when you are faced with a possiblity of terminating for reasons of abnormality. Issues get really cloudy. Hang in there though.

I understand the middle class thing though. My family are all artists and such, so although we had no money it was never seen as important as other values were held in higher esteem. DH grew up with nothing in America, the most materialistic county I have ever been too!

DH has a vision of a backyard and a college fund and holidays to disneyland. We live in a tiny flat in the middle of london and the idea of disneyland freaks me out, even if we could ever afford it. Its hard when you have different values over money.

Pie - your dh's "vision of a backyard, college fund and holidays to disneyland" is a good way of putting it - although we've got the backyard and like you dh hates the idea of disneyland (now, skiing and safari holidays.....!).

Dh tried to wake me up this morning to have chat - at 5.45! he then got in a strop with me for not waking up and talking with him properly - saying it showed a lack of desire to sort the issues. I wasn't in a fit state to argue with him: this is a long standing issue - he's a morning person and I am most definitely NOT, made worse at the moment by the early pregnanacy tiredness. He just doesn't understand how bone numbingly tired I feel. Nor can he understand how, when I have to (like tomorrow), I can get up at 4am to get a 6am flight. I've tried on many occasions to explain to him that "the lights might be on, but there's nobody in", that I'm on pure autopilot, that I'm not having to interact intelligibly with anyone, and that as soon as I am on the plane, I go back to sleep. He just sees it as an insult to him.

When I suggested that we talk instead this evening after 8, once ds had gone to bed, he said that there were things to be done in the house, and that he had wanted to talk this morning before ds was up, and that because I wasn't prepared to make the effort, it showed I didn't care.

Not the best start to the day.

Sorry to hear this Janz, but I wouldn't have been interested in a discussion at 5.45am either! I'd probably manage to stumble out of bed for a fire or something but other than that...

Well, he may be panicking or whatever, but he's still behaving absolutely appallingly IMO. You are an older mother, and you will be an older parent - so what? (no offence - I'm nearly 40 myself) However, Pilates is bloody necessity if you are older -how else are you going to have the flexibility and fitness to cope? And it's OK for him to play golf but not OK for you do an exercise class once a week? Give me strength. I hope counselling is helpful - he sounds as if he really needs to get a few things straight - and I think you have the patience of a saint, I truly do.

Janz - what exactly does he want to discuss? A termination?? If you've already specified to him that you won't do it then he is just going to have to get used to the idea as you have! He is behaving disgustingly toward you.... I really hope you can work through this and start to enjoy your pregnancy.

I agree. What issues does he want to discuss. You aren't having a termination. Does he understand that yet?

To be fair on dh - I don't think he was wanting to discuss a temrniation - he was just wanting to discuss the practicalities of how we move forward.

And it's me who tries to encourage him to go and play golf, as I think it's important that he has some time for himself doing something that he enjoys. Plus I also quite enjoy the time to MYself!

I've tried to explain to him that the Pilates is a physical necessity, rather than a pleasure (I thought about that ironically last night, as I suffered during the class) - but he just sees it as a night out that I can ill afford when I am so tired.

Janz - has he accepted now that their really is going to be a baby? Do you think he'll be better after the first scan perhaps?

M2T - I'm not sure. I think so, in that that wuold explain his unhappiness - ie he feels trapped. But we haven't really talked about it.

He's right - we do need to talk - but between 5.45 and 6.45 this morning, I was just physically and mentally not capable of doing so!

I hope you can find a good time to talk soon. It may make things SO much better for you all.

Please, please think hard and long about this. I know you have said you don't want a termination, but please don't let him pressure you into one. I get many, many emails via my website from distraught women who have had terminations and gone on to bitterly regret them. There was one who blamed her recent miscarriage on an early termination she'd had, another who could not get over a termination done years ago, and a recent woman who was pressured into having one by her partner and family. These people are looking after their best interests not yours, and you are the one person who will have to bear that burden alone for the rest of your life.
These partners really do not know, simply cannot realise, the pain and hurt they have caused in persuading women to have abortions. You never, ever regret having a baby, but an abortion is usually regretted, certainly by the amount of emails I get it is anyway.

Your dh is not thinking of you at all, he is only thinking of himself. Do you want to remain with a partner who will always put himself first? Go along with your feelings, follow your heart. Visit my website /linkwww.unplannedpregnancies.co.uk\here{}, it might help you, read some of the women's stories posted there. I wish you luck and strength, you can always count on our support here.

Sorry, I did that link wrong, I'll try again here

Am I the only mother alive who values family and happiness above money and social standing. Take it from me money does not guarantee you or your children a happy life. I am saddened that people would contemplate aborting a baby because they might have to cut out a few holidays abroad. Perhaps I live in a different world to most of you but I really beleive that everyone should view quality of life in terms of happiness and devotion not on how many social groups you belong to or how many cars you own. Deciding to terminate a pregnancy should not be spoken about as flippantly as it is here and certainly not in the same breath as money problems. I hope janZ that you are not forced into a termination that is completely unnecessary and I'm sure that your husband will see sense once he sees how much you value your family above financial security. Congratulations and enjoy the rest of your pregnancy.

Bekki ... hold on a minute ... I think most people here are posting BECAUSE they value life more than money ... haven't you read the postings??
Termination is not being talked about 'flippantly' as you put it .... it is being talked about as it is a serious issue here ... and what is at stake is Janz' relationship with her DH which is very important too ...
Please don't judge ... we all care about our children and babies and pregnancies but it isn't always simple for everyone ...

Er...Bekki, both JanZ and I have posted that DH's are using money as an excuse, which neither of us are even willing to accept as a vaild argument, and we generally agree that these are not the real reasons our partners are freaking.

Not sure where you got the idea that 'people would contemplate aborting a baby because they might have to cut out a few holidays abroad'. On this thread anyway. Or that termination is being talked about 'flippantly'. In fact I think that JanZ was looking for support about how to tackle her DH on the issues he is throwing out right now.

Please read the posts more carefully before accusing anyone else of not being as good a mother as you feel you are.