Pregnant but dh not happy

[JanZ]

..... and that's an understatement.

I "announced" my pregnancy on the diet thread, but it's not really the appropriate place to go into the issues, so I've come here for support and advice.

I am 7 weeks pregnant - due middle of January. This pregnancy was not planned, although I was wanting another one (I'm 42 and I never wanted ds, 2 and 1/2, to be an only child), but dh is really upset and annoyed about it.

He's really concerned that he feels trapped: that as he's 43 now (44 at end of June), he'll now have to work until he's 65 and doesn't see any quality of life ahead for us - and is really worried about what it will do for ds's quality of life.

He is concerned that, as he took a package at the end of November and had slowly been exploring options, that "last week he was on holiday, this week he is unemployed". He has been doing some work for someone, who he was considering going into business with (including putting in some equity), but now feels that he will either feel he has been press ganged into that - and yet the business might fail, (and then what would happen, as he would be even older, looking for an executive position) or that he should walk away and find "a proper job".

He is furious at me for not even considering a termination - he regards it as a lack of consideration for him. His argument is that I did it before when I was 22, without feeling any guilt or remorse (which is true, I didn't and don't), so why can't I do it now. My argument is that I was a different person at 22, I wasn't with him, I hadn't had a baby and I wasn't 42. I CAN'T get rid of this potential sibling for ds. I am however prepared to do CVS to check for genetic problems, as I too don't want to impact on ds's quality of life (don't really want to get into a debate about the ethics of that - it's just the way I feel).

I don't undertand dh's concerns about money and quality of life. We are sitting on liquid assets of about £100k (premium bonds, instant access savings and ISAs) (although £15k of that is due in tax next January), a mortgage of only £10k on a house worth over £200k (used some of his package to pay it off, but it's a flexible mortgage, so we can put it back up again easily), plus have over £30k of shares, endowments etc.

On my salary alone, we can manage confortably (even assuming I don't get any bonuses, which are potentially very generous) and I have even produced a budget which shows that we could survive (albeit being reasonably sensible) on the maternity package (which is a generous one of half pay plus SMP). He says that's not the point - it's the overall quality of life and all the years afterwards - and what happens if I'm NOT able to go back to work. And what happens if it's twins.

He wants to put off doing the kitchen (major work involving changing rooms and putting in a new window). I've said I'm not keen on doing such work AFTER a baby had arrived - and I also feel it's important to get ourselves a decent sized dining kitchen so I can look after two kids while I'm in the kitchen. I did suggest delaying some of the purchases, like the Amercian style frdge freezer that I would like, but he just saw that as a rejection of his suggestion. As it is, he complains that he has to bear the majority of the burden of looking after ds in the evenings - mostly because I am preparing dinner in the kitchen which is too small to have me plus ds in it. (I also go out one night a week to Pilates, one night a month to a girls' investment club and am maybe late home one night a week due to having to go to London on business: he is now complaining about those too).

Sorry for rambling on, but I need to get this off my chest. Wickedwaterwitch, in congratulating me on the other thread (thanks WWW!) asked if dh was likely to come around. The answer is I don't think so.

We both took Friday off to try to talk things through, and spent most of the day arguing and me in tears. There is just no middle ground. We're now either avoiding the issue (and being relatively civil) or on the point of starting to argue again.

If dh were happy, I'd be able to really enjoy this pregnancy. As it is, I'm miserable.

Where do I/we go from here?

Bekki - I have been following this thread carefully since it?s start but haven?t yet added anything because Pie and Ghosty have expressed themselves so well and I feel that I would have nothing above and beyond what they have already said. However, your post popped up out of the blue and I am stunned. I don?t want a fight but just feel I have to respond.
What are you talking about? Have you just read the words "financial difficulty" and "termination' and seen red? Do you really honestly believe that women casually terminate their children because of money? Don?t you think that couples in real difficulty considering termination are having a happy relaxing time thinking "not today dear, I think we will go to Barbados instead.." - of course not. Making such a decision is difficult, painful and extemely personal - not helped by postings such as yours. I cannot believe for a minute that couples would ever have a termination lightly (if they do, very few and most would go on to have terrible feelings of guilt) Oh, and by the way, to answer your question - no you are not the only one to value family happiness above all else - mumsnet is living proof of that if you take time to read all the caring, compassionate and honest postings here. Just in case you mis label me - I am pro-life, would never personally consider abortion and am a SAHM despite the financial strains it puts on our family my dh and i firmly believe it is important for me to be at home with dd. Saying that, despite my own quite strong personal views, that is all they are - if another couple were in extreme difficulty and were considering all their options including termination, I would never ever dream of being so insensitive to spout my own views as not only would it be inappropriate, possibly hurtful, it would also be unnecessary as i am sure they would be going through plenty of feeling of moral dilemma and potential guilt all by themselves.
Please think carefully before posting such potentially upsetting comments. I know all you are doing is expressing an honest opinion and mumsnet is all about opinions but there is a time and place.
Sorry for going on - just couldn?t leave it alone, hope it reads ok, I am typing a bit fast!

Er, Bekki, have you actually READ any of the postings on this thread? Who exactly is discussing termination flippantly? I think that in your post you comes across as incredibly pleased with yourself and dismissive of everyone else in the world - yet nobody is actually disagreeing with you. As it happens I'm not anti-abortion, provided it's what a woman wants, rather than what her partner wants. Money is NOT the real issue here as I think you would realise if you read the posts.

Er, Bekki, have you actually READ any of the postings on this thread? Who exactly is discussing termination flippantly? I think that in your post you comes across as incredibly pleased with yourself and dismissive of everyone else in the world - yet nobody is actually disagreeing with you. As it happens I'm not anti-abortion, provided it's what a woman wants, rather than what her partner wants. Money is NOT the real issue here as I think you would realise if you read the posts.

Bekki - I think I probably feel as strongly about terminations as you obviously do. It's a debate that I have often had with friends and I, personally would not consider one for anything other than a very serious medical reason (don't want another fight about it though!!). BUT, I am going to mirror everyone elses posts here and suggest that you read the posts again and perhaps elaborate on your reasons for thinking that anyone here is being flippant.

Janz is very obviously devastated about her husbands attitude and despite that, has decided she could never face another termination.

Janz - I hope you have not been too upset by this thread.

Thanks everyone for jumping to my defence and understanding what the real issue is - which is my relationship with my dh.

I am NOT considering a termination - which is one of the arguments we are having, but really that is a symptom rather than a cause. From dh's prespective, he can't understand why I could have a termination 20 years ago (which, for the record, I didn't and don't feel any regret or guilt - it was right for me at the time) and won't consider it now - but that is something we will have to work through.

There are more fundamental issues we need to address - like how we communicate (and in many ways I am the "guilty" one, avoiding discussing difficult issues and sticking my head in the sand), our attitudes to money and the security it brings, what we BOTH want out of life. A major problem is that dh thinks I "always get my way/get what I want", whereas I think either that we have come to a mutual agreement on something, or that I have adjusted what I wanted to try to please dh. This different perception means that we both end up dissatisfied and creates ammunition for future arguments. We both need to learn to communicate better and learn to compromise and negotiate - WITHOUT feeling that we have "given in", which only leads to a build up of resentment.

As it is, we STILL haven't talked - and now won't be able to until at least Sunday, as we have a friend coming to stay tonight.

Tuesday night dh wanted to decorate, (in preparation for this visit) and yesterday I was out on business (out the house at 4.30am to catch a flight) and when I got in in the evening (at 7.30) it was a case of spending a wee bit of time with ds, putting ds down and then working together to get the house in shape for "the visit".

Having said all of that, working together like that DOES bring dh and I closer together, so we are currently more relaxed together. It makes dh feel like we are achieving something (we've only been in this house 4 years and this is us only now getting round to doing some basic decoration) and makes him feel like he's got his life more in control.

My appointment with the doctor is tomorrow afternoon - after that, this will probably feel more "real".

JanZ - I have just caught up with this thread and wanted to say how sorry I am that your dh is having problems coming to term with your pregnancy and that you are suffering a lot of the fallout. You mentioned that relate have long waiting lists but I think if you can get to a session during the 'normal working hours', I think they can often fit you in within a week or two. Alternatively, your GP may be able to refer you to a counsellor other than relate and, if you have private medical insurance, it is worth checking to see if it would cover the cost of private counselling.

Finally, I hope it is not inappropriate in view of your dh's feelings, but I want to say congratulations to you on the pregnancy

Janz you must be feeling very upset and confused right now. I just want to say that (hopefully not speaking out of turn here for other mumsnetters) you are surrounded by people who are only too willing to listen here on mumsnet, and do care about your feelings, and what you are going through, so please use us.

Thnaks again for your messages of support. They really do help.

Also the process of trying to articulate in words what I am feeling and what the issues are has already helped. I'm sure it will also help me when dh and I do manage to finally talk.

All your suggestions/comments have also helped me see different prespectives. I also feel less alone - so far I've only told my best friend - but she lives in North Wales, so can only offer support over the phone (although we are going down to see them next weekend).

And M2T - Bekki's comments didn't upset me as she'd so clearly not properly read or understood what had been discussed previously. But in a funny way, she also helped, because it was heartwarming the way you all jumped to my defence! (helped by the fact that I was out yesterday, so didn't see the thread while all that was happening!)

All in all, feeling more positive at the moment - even if I don't feel pregnant (apart from the tiredness!)

Dear JanZ ... I am pleased that you are feeling more positive ... and fwiw I am still pg testing as I don't feel any symptom of pregnancy either !!!
StipyMouse ... as much as I am chuffed by the fact that you think I said such great things on this thread ... I can't take the credit ... It was WWW who has been so fab (along with Pie) for JanZ ....
Of course ... I WOULD have said everything that WWW said ... but she just got there first
Seriously ... I have been following this thread and nodding at most things that everyone has said and not posting as there was no more to add .... just my very sincere support for JanZ in this difficult time ...

JanZ: I would say to your other half, I'm not going to have a termination, so that issue is over. What do YOU propose as a solution, if you're not happy about raising a second child?

I was in a vaguely similar position to you. DP and I (both) took risks, I conceived, DP wasn't happy. He used to wish out loud that I'd have a miscarriage. There was no reason we couldn't stay together; we were blissfully happy in all other regards, I owned a nice 2 bedroom flat with a very small mortgage, he was self-employed in two separate lines of employment.

Anyway, he was so concerned about losing the potential to take off travelling whenever he felt like it (he's 38!), his poker/drinking nights (which I've never interfered with and never would), and ending up working "like a bastard" for another 18 yrs (despite the fact he'd have to work anyway, to support himself; it's not like he was looking forward to retiring at 40), I was pretty much forced to sell up and leave town. I couldn't have paid my mortgage and all my other debts by myself with a baby, and I didn't qualify for any kind of maternity pay. Now, at 8 months pregnant, I'm living with my mother and my brother, one of whom mocks and interferes with all my plans and ideas for my baby, while the other one won't even speak to me, because he thinks I should have "got rid of it".

Meanwhile the father of my child is hundreds of miles away, on his own, still working, still drinking, still not travelling (!), and we're both regularly in tears, and phoning each other up all the time. I should never have come to stay with my folks, but after seven years of living elsewhere had forgotten that we just don't get on, in such close proximity. My baby (a boy)will be coming home with a miserable, overwraught mother, to a dirty house with dogs and an uncle who thinks he has no right to exist; we'll be living on benefits; and of course we'll both be lonely, me with no man and my son with no dad.

Without meaning to be harsh, make sure you don't give in to pussyfooting around your other half. Mine took my pregnancy as some kind of personal insult, and would have preferred me to terminate (like you, I'd had one before). There was never any question that I'd have an abortion but in retrospect I don't think I should have been quite so 'understanding' about his moans. These are grown men and pregnancy, planned or otherwise, is just another responsibility that life throws at us: they need to get over their frankly pathetic concerns and deal with real life. The abortion issue is up to you TOTALLY and once the decision is made, it's unfair that your partner reraises the issue. The fact is there will be a baby and you must both do your best for it. And I fail to see what the problem is in your case, you are not only solvent, you have significant assets; you lifestyle would hardly have to change at all! Seriously, you should put your partner on the spot, and really press him with regards to what he's so worried about, and why he thinks another baby would be such a disaster. Mine thought I was mad - I mean, seriously mentally unstable - to want a baby, even though I'm nearly 26 and we were in a serious, stable relationship with a nice home (at the time I found out). Now he's lost out, I've lost out, our baby's lost out, and I hope he comes to consider that maybe the poker nights and dreams of beach holidays in Thailand don't really count for much when their cost is all knowledge of his son.

As far as I see it, all your partner's obstacles are of his own making. He's got a child on the way, he needs to get used to it and get happy, and give you some support. Spend a bit of your money on the new kitchen and even the American fridge, and tell him to stop worrying about what's going to happen when he's sixty-five; when he does reach that age I'm sure he'd be more proud of having two beautiful kids than of anything else he's done in his life.

Tamsz77 - that is disgusting how you are being treated! Why is everyone so against this poor wee baby??
Does your dp still love you? Does he want you to be living in this awful situation? How old is he? Did he think he was too young to become a father or does he never want children?

No advice I'm afraid, it's not something I have any experience of. I hope he sees sense and things turn out ok for you.

JanZ - I hope your DH sees sense soon. Sorry to hear you're being put through the mill.

Tamzs77 - How beastly people are. Do you have to stay with your parents? Selling up your flat, have you generated enough cash to get your own place - even in the short term so you've got somewhere nice to call home and take your baby back to? Do you have any longer term plans - or do you think that DP may pull himself together?

You may have seen from the "Due in Jan 2004" thread that the problems has "resolved" itself: I am in the process of going through a miscarriage.

DH went with em to the scan yesterday (expecting to have a CVS done) but was a star when we found that the preganancy hadn't progressed as it should have done.

He's also now totally confused about his own feelings, as he's very upset for me, as he knew that this was something that I wanted, even if he didn't. As he says - at least it does show that we still love each other.

Maybe this is for the best. At least now we have a chance to talk things through without the "fait accompli" and decide together if/when we want another kid.

We actually had a private counselling session on Saturday which was OK - it moved us on a tiny bit further, but there was still a lot to go through, espcically when we were both feeling under pressure from the pregnancy. I think we have a better chance of working through the issues now without that pressure.

I'm actually feeling OK at the moment, although I'm feeling in limbo waiting for the miscarriage to happen (or will go into hospital to get it over and done with). I know it will hit me some time and that I will need to go thorugh a grieving process - but at least I now feel that I have my husband at my side.

I also meant to say a big THANKS to all the support that I got on this thread - it really helped me.

Janz - I am SO sorry about your news. It must be awful, but like you say, maybe this happening has brought you and dh closer together, or at least closer to resolving you issues. And now you can, if thats what you both want, sit down and decide when to have another child.

I really hope you are ok and please keep posting.

I'm very sorry to hear your news. I am also glad you and your dh are pulling together now. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Janz, I'm so very sorry to hear your news. These very upsetting events can bring couples closer together, I know, and I am thinking of you both at this difficult time.

Very, very sorry to read your news but do hope you and your DH will get through this together and have happier times ahead.

So sorry to hear your news janz. Thinking of you both x E

oh janz, so sorry that you lost your baby. I hope that when you both are up to it you can sit down and have a really good talk about all of this, and as marina says, that it brings you closer together.

janz ... I am so sad to hear your news ...
Just lots of hugs coming your way .... {{{{{}}}}}

Oh Janz, I'm sorry too and thinking of you.

I'm so sorry to hear about the baby JanZ, I hope you and DH find strength in each other.

Cyber hug {{{}}}