Higher reading for Nuchal translucency scan - feeling panicked!

[linspins]

Hi all, Just been for our 12 week scan today and had the nuchal scan to test for Downs. The reading was 2.8mm. They said this was high, but not high enough to be classed as high risk without doing a blood test. I had a blood test afterwards, but the results won't be in til Friday. I am just really worried now that there is something wrong with the baby. I'm 36, so no spring chicken, and had a heartbreaking time with my first pg, after severe abnormalities were diagnosed at the 20 wk scan and we had a termination. I have since had a healthy lovely little girl, but I'm scared again. Has anyone else had high nuchal reading, was it ok?

Although I have not posted in a while, I have been keeping up with this thread. Busierbee, I agree with Lins, don't give up on MN altogether. I have not read your thread, but can just imagine what some non-thinking person wrote in regards to your situation. When we had our amnio done a month ago, we told no one in RL, for that reason. We didn't want unsolicited advice about something that took a lot of soul searching to decide. Hopefully, all the good supportive posts will outweigh the few bad apples, and you continue to get some level of peace and comfort from talking to all of us.

Lins - glad to hear you have a date set for you to celebrate Daisy and how much you love her. Choosing a song will be difficult, because the better it is, the more it will hurt to listen to it. If I come across anything, I will send it your way. I think having the month to prepare, will give you some added strength to make it through the day. Your feeling won't be quite so raw. From the sounds of your posts, it looks like things are starting to hit you, when you were afraid that you wouldn't feel anything. Letting yourself have some time alone to cry will make you feel better in the end.

I will be thinking of you and your family on the 15th, and will light a candle for your angel baby Daisy.

Stay strong

Marianne xx

Lins - Was thinking of Daisy when I remembered a song I used for a different reason... but you may think its appropriate. "You'll Be In My Heart" from Phil Collins. I believe its from Disney's Tarzan Soundtrack. Let me know what you think... and if you want me to keep my suggestions to myself . Hope you are doing well. xx

Babyblue3, thanks for writing. I just listened to the tune and it's really sweet. Keep those suggestions coming!
This week has been tougher, I've had a little space from my toddler (she was at nursery/at my mums for 2 days but I wasn't at work..). It gave me time to think, reflect and just feel. And the sadness started to creep in, but in a way it has been better to feel something, than the nothingness of the last 2 weeks.
Being sad in Spring is an odd thing, it just jars with the general hopefulness of the season. When all around is bursting with new life and the sun is shining, I've felt out of step with it. Also, due to the type of support sites I've been on recently, I've heard so many sad stories of heartbreaking loss that mirror mine. And whilst its comforting to know I'm not alone, it is so dreadfully sad too. [sigh].
I'm trying to put my life back together, and keep veering from one extreme (cleaning, tidying, haircuts, getting fit, face cream etc!) to the other (glass of wine, choc, not bothering about appearance...). I think I want so much to feel in control (of something/anything), but can't keep the good intentions going when my head is really just full of one thing - ' I want my baby back, and I wish life was different.'
Gosh, its better than therapy, writing here...

Hope things are going well for others who have posted here. Any nice updates? xxxx

Dearest Lins
Iam popping over to your thread as mine too hard for me and wanted to say oohhh and aahhhh and groan for you and with you. The seeing Spring and not feeling Springish thing is so hard isn't it? And i really know that feeling of wanting to put one's life in order, haircuts, not eating cake, sorting stuff and then crumbling back to sobs again. Poor poor girl. And in the middle of all this to plan a service for your precious girl and all those memories of your last wee daughter too. I am not sure how we do these things but we do and we both know that the feelings shift and change. I took my boys to school today and then went very wobbly when back - dropped a pint of milk, smash, felt like I was sinking. DP at work today and am so very clingy to him.
Am thinking of you and holding your hand across cyberspace. I imagine you in some rural idyll a la Joanna Trollope with a garden brimful of daffodils as opposed to the urban sprawl of my life.
You are being brave -when brave means 'carrying on' - and that is not easy.
cuddles
BBxxx

Hi Busierbee, Sadly not rural idyll, but small victorian terrace in sub-urban kent...but have got a cute garden, with a fantastic clematis flowering outside the window at the moment, that a friend bought me after we lost Amy. It flowers right on cue for her anniversary.
I sent you a little message on ARC today. If you ever want to email me, I think you can click on my name to send a message.
I kind of know what you mean about the pessary things...but in my case I didn't have to put them in myself. What were your doctors thinking???? I am so angry about the treatment you received, but I won't rant about it (yet) because that might not possibly be the best thing for you to hear. But I know that moment of finality. With Amy, my first angel, because I was 21 weeks pg, I had to have an injection to stop her heart. I have to say that moment in my life is absolutely and without doubt the most horrendous and terrible. I am quite haunted by it.
Talking of smashing stuff, after Amy, on a particularly low day, I accidently chipped a vase. I was really pi**ed off, but then quite deliberately, I dropped it on the hard kitchen floor. Smash. Very satisfying if done on purpose! Husband thought I was nuts.
Anyway, thinking of you today, lots and sending you a cup of tea and a biscuit via internet!
Lins.

Oh Lins - crying again. God the pain that must be endured -and what women must go through. The idea of that injection. And here you are to tell the tale. Golly. Me also in Victorian house - no clematis though as garden so neglected at moment. I did post a wee message back to you but it does not seem to be there - am as usual technologically crap - and so prone to mishaps at the moment. But will introduce myself properly on arc very soon. Am off to get my boys now from school and hope to see ... no one. Just had a nap - you know that feeling when you awake and forget for one brief tiny moment that you are not pregnant? I hate that moment. Goodbye dear lady.
BB xx

Linspins
Really a message for you and for busierbee too - I have read most of both of your threads - and sit here with the tears welling. That you have both been through this twice is heartbreaking. A year ago today we had a service and cremation of our baby girl Annie. I gave birth to her at 18 weeks. We found out at the 13 week scan that she had severe abnormalities. We waited till 18 weeks as they thought the problems might be genetic, and at that stage she might be big enough to get some answers from a post mortem. It is a genetic problem, but one so rare, that they can't really be sure what the recurrence rate is, so they have gone for 10%. We are v lucky and have a little boy who is 2 1/2 - thank goodness for him - yes there were times in those early days when I wished I could just stay under the duvet, but he really kept me going... We are trying again - miscarriage in October, but now 8 weeks pregnant - excited/anxious - first scan on Wednesday. If we get a hearbeat then, it's a good indication that I won't miscarry.... Then the next step is a series of scans starting from 11.5 weeks.... Anyway - enough about me - I guess I have just been thinking a lot about Annie recently - both with it being a year now, and with this new pregnancy - your post Linspins about grieving in springtime was just so familiar - and we gave Annie a little Rabbit too....
Thinking of you a lot - my lovely GP talks about getting used to a "new normal" - I am pretty much used to mine now - it still hurts, but I know we set our Annie free and I know she keeps an eye on us - I woudl much rather she was here though.
I made up a little order of service for Annie, and this is something we put in it:

In the rising of the sun
and in its going down
we will remember you.

In the blowing of the wind
and in the chill of winter
we will remember you.

In the opening of buds
and in the warmth of summer
we will remember you.

In the rustling of leaves
and in the beauty of the autumn
we will remember you.

In the beginning of the year
and when it ends
we will remember you.

As long as we live, you too will live
for you are now a part of us forever.

Adapted from ?Gates of Prayer?, Reform Judaism Prayer Book

Sorry to send such a large post. OUr hospital also had a vg counselling service specifically for this kind of thing...
Take v good care of yourselves...xxxx

Hi all,
Anyone else think Spring is a bit brutal in its relentless bursting-forth? I drove past some lambs today and they were all bouncy and cute and nuzzling in to their mums, and I started to cry straight away. Even thinking of it now has brought tears to my eyes. They were so sweet and new, but it all seemed so harsh.
Feeling a bit wobbly now too, as I got a text today from friends to announce their baby boy had arrived. These same friends have a daughter (my god-daughter) the same age as mine, and we loved being pregnant together the first time. This last time, they fell pregnant before us, but we were so excited when we were too, 4 months behind them. Meanly, I want to stamp my foot in a tantrum-y kind of way and say "you can't have TWO now, when two of mine are angels, and we've been trying for so long!! It's my turn first!!" Loss brings out the bad as well as the good in us...

SAMR71, Really sorry to hear about your little Annie. I will spend a minute tomorrow (probably in the garden, weather permitting) thinking of her, and asking my Amy and Daisy to look out for her, up in the 'garden' I like to think of as heaven.
I wish you all the luck in the world with your pregnancy this time. Please keep us posted as we'll all be cheering for you, when you get good scans.
Thanks for the lovely poem, I recognise the general format of it, and it is easy to 'customise' it to make it more personal.

Have a good sunday all.

Lins xx

Dearest Lins
But it isn't fair - you are right - it is not fair at all. It is impossibly cruel and makes no sense. And somedays you can be strong enough to manage other people's joy and other days not. Nobody would expect anything else of you. You are a complex human being like us all. You show such compassion for others and generosity when they announce good news. Is so hard when it is someone with whom you have shared pregnancy and hopes- the loss is immense. I have been dreaming this week of friends becoming pregnant. I would fall apart at the moment if someone rang me with the news.
And SAM - mummy of Annie - what a beautiful name for an angel. It is so sad for you both - your gorgeous girls. I am glad you have been reading our threads - somehow the connectedness is so vital.
The thing with the lambs - it is the pain of beauty and nature somehow. So simple to observe but so hard to achieve for some of us. Sob making. Is all better out than in - those feelings dear Lins. Rest and snuggle up with DH. How is he doing- your hubbie?
with love to you and to Annie's mummy too
BB

Dearest Lins
How are you doing today? Have you had some sunshine in the garden? How is the tear-o- meter today? Mine fairly high. The rawness. I reread your thread yesterday - since when I first read it, I had not communicated with you. You have been through so so much - the initial fear, then some relied that cvs came back clear and all the endless meetings with professionals etc. Was all so short a time ago. Think we have to be gentle on selves and realistic about what can be managed. I am so desperate to be pregnant - can not imagine not being. Did you read the Observer mag today- about a woman who had lost a child through stillbirth? She said that the best way to replace misery is through joy. And it seems to me that having a baby is the only route to joy at the moment.
BB xx

Hi Busier,
I had an ok day today. We built a big sandpit for dd, (gotta get used to these abbreviations!) and generally worked hard outside. Pretty exhausted. But was glad to be out in the sun, as I think it's due to rain all week.
Yes, I did read that article, I was going to write about it here tonight. It really struck a chord with me, the way the lady explained why she had to write her book "It was absolutely necessary for my mental health...It's a way of translating dark thoughts into something manageable" - this, I think, describes a little how some of us HAVE to write on MN.
I really identified with her when she was asked 'what' s the hardest thing to bear about losing a baby' and she answers "people not mentioning it." I like to talk about Amy, five years on, and I love it when friends refer to her. Similarly, I've found I will talk about Daisy to anyone who will listen. It is a release of all the thoughts whirring round my head. I do feel somewhat crazy at times because such a high percentage of my thought time is occupied with my loss.
I am sooooooo desperate to be pregnant again, strangely more so than after Amy when I was lost in a very dark place. But I am coping with life at the moment, and wish I could fast forward a few weeks to start trying again. I'm not sure how long it'll take to get my next cycle. As the Observer article said "joy is a really good treatment for sadness". Busier, don't give up on this, there's still every possibility for you.
I know what you mean when you say you can't quite believe that it can happen twice without there being a reason, and maybe they don't know what that is yet. When you are told that it's bad luck but 'shouldn't happen again' it is really harsh as there is nothing to blame it on. I hope the stork is feeling generous to me, I usually take over a year to get preg in the first place.
Gotta go, dinner is ready!
Love Lins xx

It was a very powerful and timely article wasn't it? I sometimes feel maybe my writing should be more private and whether it is socially acceptable or disloyal to DP to share emotional meltdowns and the the detail of our reaction. And whether I am talking to myself or anyone who will listen or you for example. The narrative helps to keep it all together.
The joy replacing sadness thing is enormous. I feel worse this time than last in fact. Last time - all so new and shocking and yet had hope that we would conceive quickly. This time - the odds are stacked against us, age being a huge almighty one. And I know - I truly know - that could not cope again. My children are a comfort yes, but are independent human beings. I keep imagining what it would be like if i had a wee toddler with pink cheeks, funny words and effusive love. I think many women on arc are in that situation. I think it is then a connection to mothering in that way one does of a small child. It maybe helps. Am very wobbly today- is a combination of shock and trauma and also the notion we may never have a baby together. It is about what is manageable and am not sure it is. The first wave is to let the trauma and shock subside, let the mind and body recover. Then to deal with genetic counselling.So have an ongoing sense of anxiety. As the last poster on my thread said- just be strong. I think I am mostly but this has knocked me down.
Am glad you have had a gardening day - what a lucky little girl to have a sandpit built by her loving parents. Is she just too lovely? Well done Lins for coping with this all - you are a credit to yourself. And you never know - maybe this time you will conceive more quickly and if not then maybe it is for a reason. Maybe you need time to recover and grieve the loss of Amy and Daisy. You are young still!
Off to force grubby eleven year old into bath.
BB xx

Busier, I am so sorry you are feeling so awful today - don't forget that there are all sorts of hormones raging around your body causing havoc. You have just been through the most terrible upheaval, and of course you are in shock. Trauma is not a word to use lightly but is very appropriate to your experience, - physically, emotionally - in every way. Please look after yourself. You need time to recover and as Samr71 wrote, to get used to a 'new normal'. It has been such a shock and it's all so recent for you. Take time. There are no decisions that need to be made immediately so there is no rush. Big hugs.
You say I'm still young yet, but I am going to be 37 in June, and honestly, I feel quite haggard! Looking in the mirror, I think that this last pregnancy and the whole morning sickness/totally-ill-every-second-can't-even- think, has aged me. Not to mention the stress and sadness. Does 42 feel that much older? I know the statistics rise with each year but so many so-called 'older Mums' have healthy babies. I want to say, don't let the dream of a pink cheeked toddler slip away yet, but then I also know its not my place to tell you that, because only you know if you could cope. xxx

Hi to Babyblue and everyone.
Love Lins xx

Hello Busier and Lins
I feel for you both so much thinking of a year ago, and I have only been through it once... I look back at a lot of last year, and basically I was in survival mode - just getting through each day doing the essentials - extra stuff just didn't happen. We were deeply affected by another tragedy in July which I won't go into now, as I find it too difficult. But survival mode got us through, and counselling for me... This year we are going for a steady gentle incline... I guess what I am saying, is it is agony, but it takes time, and you need time too.... particularly with any big decisions. Busier - right now, I see you feel you can't cope with the idea of trying again and all that pain, and that might not change, but I wouldn't rule it out... If you can, try to put the decision away somewhere for a while, and come back to it...
Have to say am exhausted, so not sure am making any sense... Our DS has been poorly with a sick bug since Thursday night - still throwing up today - it is just relentless. Doc twice on Fri, a brief trip to A&E to check for infection/dehydration, back to doc today - it's a virus which is just taking a long time to run its course - the most imp thing though is that he isn't dehydrated, so will just hope tmrw will be a bit easier. It has distracted a bit from the run up to our scan on Wednesday, but I have to say am hugely anxious (both about scan and ds - feel fit to burst)- spent yday thinking I had no symptoms anymore and thinking the worse - symptoms have come back a bit today, but who knows...
Night all - and be good to yourselves.
S xx

Hello SAMR71 and sorry to poach your thread Lins. You are right Sam it is only a week for goodness sake since the shocking procedure and not much longer for Lins either. There are emotional states to be got through and am still in shock I think and certainly not near to acceptance. The trying to conceive again thing is enormous and hard to put to back of mind since I need it somewhere in my consciousness to hold onto as a redemption for all this agony. I am so very sorry you have had a double tragedy - there is no timely justice in the world really sometimes is there?
Poor wee DS to be poorly button. And then tomorrow your scan - it is very brave to talk to us two time tragedy ladies when you are about to plunge into another scan - but you must know it is so very rare. I wish you all the luck in the world and will you please please let us know when your good news comes through tomorrow?
with thoughts
BB x

Samr71, A big get well soon to your DS, bless him. Hope the bug has burnt itself out now, poor pickle. And have my fingers firmly crossed for your scan. Come back and tell us how you got on.
Busierbee...another day...tick them off the calendar.
I'm off for a mini facial (woohoo, feel I need it to erase some wrinkles!) but catch up with you later. xx

I'm in floods of tears and I need to tell someone how upset I am. I've just had a conversation with the chaplain who will be taking Daisy's service next week. I spoke to her yesterday to ask whether there would be any ashes, and also whether we should just bring the song we've chosen with us on a cd or if she needed it before hand.
I've just had the replies: no, there won't be any ashes, and we can only take the song if it is on an original cd, not a copy/homemade cd. I am distraught. We got a tiny pot of ashes after Amy's cremation, at the same place, so how can it not be the case now? And we've bought the tune we like direct from i-tunes, and were going to burn it on to a cd, so don't have an original copy. I didn't want to buy the whole album as I only need the one song.
I NEED there to be ashes, because we got them after Amy, and I need this to be the same. What am I going to do? I'm in such a state.
The chaplain suggested she could take along her cd player to play the song on, but what if it sounds bad? I wanted it played on the proper sound system. I would be so upset if it wasn't right.
I AM upset already. I will buy the album if that's what it takes but I don't want to turn the feeling I have about this song in to something I feel bad about.
The whole conversation was so hard - how do you have a conversation on the phone with someone, discussing things like whether you want to carry the casket in yourselves, or whether you want the curtains drawn round it at the end? How can a mother discuss these things? That is my baby.
And before the phone rang I was in a foul mood with my husband (for no reason at all really, and not usual). And now I am all angry and upset and...so sad.
So, really not in a good place right now and don't know what to do.

Dear girl
Have just read this. Darling there must be ashes if that is what you want - it is your baby girl. But this is too much for you to handle - so please get husband to ring her in the morning and explain how things must be. It is too too much for you to handle for God's sake.
So - on a detailed how you want things to be matter - let alone the terrible terrible loss - it is important that things are done with dignity and love and respect. My god you and I both know how devastating things can be if not done properly. It is traumatising.
I am sure she must be a gentle soul this woman. She will understand - and if that is how you want it then that is how it must be darling.
I too have just had astonishing weep and rant and could not speak with sadness and sorrow and misery.
It is bloody hard my dear Linspins. This is
not how life is supposed to be. Little baby Daisy is your baby and always will be and your goodbye to her is so very important. We will sort this out.
Sending you the biggest soppiest heartfelt mummy to mummy cuddle
BB xxxxxxxx

Oh golly I can not bear that you may not get this before you go to bed - am so angry for you. What on earth is wrong with these people actually?
I really really feel that you will have the Goodbye you want Lins. You are so aware of your feelings and needs and you or hubby will express yourselves cleary.
Try and rest and take comfort in the arms of your husbande. My poor man has just had his first emotional outburst since the day we found out the terrible news and I feel so sad and sorry for him.
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxx

Thank you lots. Am working my way through the ultra-balm tissue box at an alarming rate. I need to go to bed but I need to unwind first.
I'm all...'grrrr' and 'sniff sniff'. I had on ok-ish day before all this, although I knew she was phoning tonight and it was lurking in my mind.
Big breath.
I want this final 'official goodbye' to be right, and as you say it is SO important. It is only 10 minutes long but has to be good. Then I can get on with the rest of my life, and the never ending goodbye I will be saying forever.
Ouch, my nose is sore, and whatever good my mini-facial did has just been washed away.
I'm going to switch the computer off soon or I might well be on here ranting all night.
Thanks again, good hug. xx

Got your messages. xx
Don't forget you can always call me one day if you feel like it Bee.
xx

Why don't you open a bottle of wine and we can rant and rant all night long?
Well done for still smiling - golly the bravery. The crazy ranting sobbing and then the humour.
Will message you tomorrow - is there a more private way of communicating do you think?
Maybe we should swap email or something?
Night night
xx

Yes - I can get your number from ARC.
good thinking
Sleep well Lins
xx

Went to check on my dd, all sleeping, warm and soft. Feel calmer now. Have got hot water bottle and am off to bed.
Sleep well too. xxx

Firstly - thank you both Linspins and Busier for being so kind and supportive - I meant to say that last night when I posted... And I hope you don't mind me joining in here from time to time.
Lins - I'm so so sorry you have had a difficult time... and a difficult conversation - I found it all ridiculously surreal when we arranged Annie's service, and just not right having to make these decisions - and I know where you are coming from wanting things to be done the same way for Daisy as they were for Amy - I have thought about this a little in case our genetic problem reoccurs and we have to go through it all again...
About ashes - we didn't get Annie's - they explained to us that we could use a different crematorium and there was a v slim chance they could get some, but it was unlikely, so we just went with the hospital procedure as we couldn't face having to organise it ourselves - particularly if they still got nothing - ... It does seem strange though that they have done it before for you and can't do it again.... And it is all the more difficult for you as you have expectations to fulfill of wanting things to go the way they did before - I so hope you can get this sorted - I really do... and the cd - seems rather strange - a cd player is a cd player regardless of what cd goes in surely... I spent ages trying to record 2 bits of music from our wedding onto cassettes for Annie's service - and many tears too, but it was the determination for it to be just right... and ages and more tears typing up an order of service even though it was just DH, me and the chaplain there...
I v much hope you can resolve these things - really do feel for you and am thinking of you big time... it's such a hurdle, and such an important one too...
Off to bed for me now too - DS sick again today - only twice - I so hope that's it.... MIL coming up tmrw to look after him while we go for the scan, though DH poorly tonight too, so who knows if he'll manage it - have gone into carer mode, so feeling resilient...
Hope everyone slept well as no doubt it will be tmrw when you read this...
xx