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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Nuchal scan shows one in 3 risk - feeling sad and stunned.

153 replies

Mandy73 · 11/09/2008 00:39

With utmost respect and admiration for all parents of children with DS, DH and I both grew up with younger relatives with severe SN, and although we know there are no guarantees in life as well as many fantastic families affected by DS, we were always going ahead with screening.

Had the nuchal this evening (12+4) and it's all very sad, confusing and conflicting news. One in three risk of DS and a one in 36 of Edwards. My bloods (w 9) were crazy bad (Dr said she expected a MC when she first saw the data). The neck measurement is 2,7 but weirdly the bad blood value does not indicate DS, more like Edwards, which I understand is a more severe chromosome abnormality. The baby is big and long, which could explain the bigger neck, and the fingers perfect, which speaks against Edwards. I'm 35 and this is #1. Being fast tracked for placenta biopsy - spending tomorrow at hospital hankering for a free slot - and would really appreciate to hear from anyone who has been in a similar situation.

The baby was v wriggly and beautiful, heartbeat normal.

Thank you so much. x

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ilovemydog · 12/09/2008 10:49

My sister had Edwards, or rather a mosiac.

When you get your results,ask about this if Edwards is indicated; whether it's a mosiac or not...

Mandy73 · 12/09/2008 11:12

Thank you for more input, all v interesting & helpful to me.

No heart scan offered snackattack, that will potentially follow the chromosome test results they said. Can't remember it all but I think a heart doppler scan at 22 weeks was mentioned, if we're lucky enough to get there.
So happy all went well for you and your DD. 1 in 2 based on blood/biochemistry you say - may I ask what the actual scan looked like?
I'm so miffed by this, perhaps a defence mechanism, but can't help thinking there may have been something wrong with the extreme blood test result since the scan was normal?

Yes ilovemydog I have a 1 in 36 risk for Edwards and 1 in 3 for Downs. Not sure what the mosaic means but will def. ask.

Hope everyone has a good day. x

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ilovemydog · 12/09/2008 12:20

a mosiac means that it isn't a full chromosomal abnormality, but only partially...

Blu · 12/09/2008 12:31

Mandy - so sorry about the wait...waiting in these circustances is agonising.
I became completely hysterical over the w/e waiting to find out if DS had a range of trisomies (including Edwards). Make sure you and your DH are ready for each other's upset this w/e, and look after yourselves, and each other.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 12/09/2008 12:33

A mosaic means some cells are normal in the baby and some aren't. The degree to which a child with a mosaic will be affected is very hard to predict. With CVS it can be particularly confusing because the affected cells can sometimes only be in the placenta, so the baby is fine - with completely normal cells. But they can't tell you that from the results.

Mandy73 · 12/09/2008 12:37

Oh great, something else to worry about .

No but seriously, I'm happy you mentioned it so that I know what it means and can be prepared.

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snackattack · 12/09/2008 12:48

Mandy - the scan was a nightmare to be honest. I knew there was something wrong because they kept measuring and re-measuring the nuchal fold and it was 3.4 or something (can't remember the exactly measurement) but basically HUGE compared with a normal result... and it went on for a while. Baby was jigging around normally and she was also quite a big baby for dates - so I could see quite clearly that heart was beating away and she was jigging about - but they kept prodding my stomach to move her into different positions to make the measurement and I could see that the reading was high and there was a couple of them called in to review the measurements. Horrible - makes me go cold to think about it. Tbh I feared the worst, but it was fine.....some babies just don't follow the rules! HTH - but I doubt it - I know how tough this is for you. Such a hard time... so sorry... but chin up, nothing is definite yet.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 12/09/2008 12:48

It can be an issue if you're choosing between a CVS and amnio. An amnio will always give a clear result - even with mosaics. There's a bit more here

It did happen to a friend. She had a very large nuchal result (apparently very large measurements are associated with Turner's syndrome -although she wasn't told that before- someone at King's told me that- which causes sterility and usually pretty mild LD's). She had a CVS - results came back mosaic for XY/XO. (XO is Turner's syndrome). They couldn't tell whether the XO cells were in the placenta or the baby. The scanned again and could see penis so they said that was a good sign but to have the baby tested when born. She could have had an amnio to clarify but had a lot of bleeding after the CVS so declined, and the medics seemed to be moving towards any problems were going to be mild anyway.

You results sound quite confusing and it would probably be worth going through things like mosaics etc with someone before you have an invasive test. If a mosaic is a possibility (and with big measurements but normal scan results it would be worth asking someone medical) then you might feel an amnio to be a better option. Mosaics are rare, but armed with the details of your individual case you should be able to get some specific, rather than general, advice from the medics.

Mandy73 · 12/09/2008 12:55

Many thanks! This is all much, much appreciated. Feeling so much better now I'm armed with all this info and knowing a bit what to expect. Thank you for explaining mosaic in more detail, it's great to get it compressed & concise like this rather than browsing aimlessly for hours.

I suppose we were always going to have the CVS first and foremost and then take it from there.

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eidsvold · 13/09/2008 09:27

I haven't posted on here before but have read it.

Felt I should share my story.

I was told at 20 weeks pregnant that if my daughter was born without down syndrome it would be very very rare. We chose not to have any further testing - for a number of reasons.

Dd1 was born with a heart defect and down syndrome. I have posted a lot on here about her - will try and find a thread that has a more detailed account of our story.

dd1 at one

Pics on my profile have dd1 as a babe and at 6. (she recently had her 6th birthday.)

I have actually posted this on another thread but thought it might help here too.

I could write a long post about what it is like to have a child with down syndrome. My dd1 has just turned 6. She is amazing. She was born with a congenital heart defect that was repaired with two open heart surgeries at 8 weeks old. Healthwise - she has never looked back.

She attends a mainstream school as well as one day a week at a special education unit. She is doing so well we are looking at full time mainstream any day now.

Her language skills have improved out of sight and she is just coming on in leaps and bounds.

At school the children fight over who sits next to dd1, who works with dd1.

She is a real social butterfly - very outgoing and loves to chat and socialise. In fact I have to drag her away from school as she wants to stay and chat with all the teachers and parents.

She spent a year in nursery when we lived in the UK prior to emigrating to Aus as I went back to work full time. She has attended a mainstream kindergarten for two years prior to starting school.

I have lots of posts on here about her. She adores and is adored by her two sisters. In fact the baby is very proficient at cheering dd1 on. She can do a YEH RA RA(what she calls dd1) so well.

She has made our life so different and yes there are some tough times - handing your tiny baby over at 8 weeks old for open heart surgery is not a great thing. We have spent a lot of time, energy and some expense accessing therapy for her. Think that has made a big difference.

Dd1 did not walk until she was 3 - then she sprinted. I used to think she would be my special olympian swimmer - now I think she could be my sprinter!! grin

Our antenatal story - at 20 weeks they diagnosed a very serious heart defect which would have meant at least three open heart surgeries before one and if she survived to be a teenager - probably a transplant. We were sent to London to see a fetal cardiologist who diagnosed a different heart defect - complete AVSD - holes in her heart ( serious holes) and a dodgy AV valve. He also said to us that if she was born without down syndrome it would be very very rare. We were then offered an amnio by Professor Nicolaides and we said no. Why - well this was our babe and she would be born. We would deal with it one day at a time. We would sort the heart defect and if she happened to have ds - well so be it. I think dh and I were very fortunate that we knew families with members who happened to have Down syndrome. These people - one was about my age ( in his 30's at the time) and one was a teenager. We had not seen anything to be afraid of. We were more worried about her heart.

I have since learnt in speaking with dd1's cardiologist that our chance was roughly 1 in 5 of dd1 having down syndrome.

I have no regrets about this life and am constantly amazed at how far she has come. To see her determination and her love for life. To see life through her eyes - so many people to chat to and interact with and so little time. Such joy in simple things. Her compassion and empathy for others. As I type this she is running amok with her two younger sisters - doing what siblings do.

The only sadness - that my daughter lives in a world in which some people cannot see past labels and their own prejudices to see the amazing little girl that she is and the amazing young woman she has the potential to be.

Mandy73 · 13/09/2008 11:21

eidsvold thank you so much for sharing.

DH and I both grew up with younger family members with severe SN. Unfortunately the experiences were not so positive and on DH's side the situation lead to one of the parents committing suicide.

So, a very personal choice, but for us maximum testing/screening is a choice we are grateful for although we are very much aware there are no guarantees in life and disability can happen to anyone at any time.

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WheresTheAuPair · 13/09/2008 13:18

I had a high nuchal fold measurement with this PG (3.4 and 2.9 on 2nd opinion). I can totally feel for you a this time as I was devastated by the news from that 12 week appointment. With it being our 2nd PG and being fairly young it was the last thing we expected to face. We chose not to have any further testing other that a heart scan at 20 weeks which showed all was normal. I guess we'll really find out in 5 weeks time when baby is due. I've tried not to think too much about it but as a result it has been a much different pregnancy to the 1st one. Good luck in whatever you decide.

pelvicflawed · 14/09/2008 20:40

Mandy73 - just wanted to say all the best with the CVS tomorrow (its not to bad at all - just remember to take it easy the rest of the day). Hope you've managed to have an ok weekend - the weekend before I had mine done the house was cleaned to within an inch of its life!!. I think someone has already mentioned it but if you need any advice or support during the process then ARC (Anti Natal Results and Choices) are brilliant and totally non-judgmental. Take care of yourself tomorrow - all the best and cross fingers for a good result.

Mandy73 · 15/09/2008 11:36

Thank you for the kind thoughts and good advice.

Well the one outcome we didn't think of was that they wouldn't be able to perform the CVS at all - and that's what happened today.

My placenta is in such a dodgy place around the back the Dr said 'if you were my wife I'd never allow it'. The risk of puncturing my bladder and/or membranes is too big.

So we have to wait for two weeks until they can do an amniotic fluid test. Having some very dark thoughts right now.

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pelvicflawed · 15/09/2008 17:11

So sorry to hear that you couldn't get the CVS done today. Thinking of you

LittleMyDancing · 15/09/2008 17:12

oh Mandy, I'm sorry, that must be so stressful for you. Wishing you lots of strength to get through the next two weeks.

sunshine185 · 15/09/2008 17:24

sending you positive thoughts mandyx

Mandy73 · 15/09/2008 17:36

Thank you so much for your positive and kind words. I'm very moved by the response.

Have calmed down a bit & had some positive news re. work - sounds crass but will help take my mind of this. I am happy he didn't attempt the CVS today and induced a MC in the process - regardless of the outcome and our choice here I really wouldn't want that.

Two weeks really isn't that bad, right? Still a 66% chance things may be OK after all, although I'm a glass-half-empty person really and don't want to cling on to false hope.

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pelvicflawed · 15/09/2008 17:50

Glad to hear about the work - its not crass at at all - the best thing you can do is keep ultra busy. When I was waiting for my test (and I was lucky I didn't have to wait long) my job suddenly became so much more interesting especially some tedious data analysis..!! Cleaning was good and was catching up on doing some accounts that I had put off for months, infact all those jobs you never get round to. Two weeks will go quickly and your glass is definitely 2/3 full. Take care

Twelvelegs · 15/09/2008 17:54

The risk of MC from a CVS a very very slim.

Mandy73 · 16/09/2008 10:04

Twelvelegs normally yes, but for me the risk would have been massive which is why the Dr didn't want to do it. Depends on the positioning of the placenta and there was no way he could have reached mine, abdominally or trans-vaginally, without getting very close to rupturing the membranes or puncturing my bladder.

pelvicflawed you are so very right. Big shop now, then cracking on with big work project.

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shangrila · 16/09/2008 14:57

Hi Mandy

Sorry to hear that your wait has been extended. It must be tough indeed.

Just to let you know that my CVS was postponed for two weeks for positioning reasons, like you. The waiting was just torment and I only lasted two days before I rang the Fetal Medicine Centre on Harley Street, who gave me an immediate appointment. It was done by Prof Nicolaides and the doctor who prepped me for it (before the great man entered the room) told me she had never seen him fail to manage to get a sample. True enough, he did it with no concerns at all.

FMC isn't for everyone and is expensive but it was what I needed at the time. They have a very good website, worth a look.

Thinking of you and hoping that you get the right outcome for you asap.

jeanjeannie · 16/09/2008 15:51

Gosh how stressful for you. Just to add a good news story - I had a 1 in 2 of DS and 1 in 14 of Edwards. My bloods were so bad that the big man himself Prof Nicholides (sp?) said that they were as bad as they could get. Plus, being 42 it seemed nothing was looking favourable BUT after a CVS I got the all clear and DD2 is perfect and 3.5 mths old

I bled profusely for almost the first 10 weeks and have since been told that this can play havoc with the blood results. If you have had any bleeding, which is quite common, then that could throw off the bloods.

Sorry about the wait - wishing you all the very best x

Mandy73 · 16/09/2008 18:23

Dear shangrila and jeanjeannie, that's very interesting. Will discuss with dh tonight, thank you.

shangrila how long before you got the results from FMC?

jeanjeannie I did have some early bleeding, about 2,5 weeks before giving the blood for screening. Wasn't a lot though but I got a reassurance scan at 6+5 and they could see the bleeding clearly. Was never explained. We have asked about this but been (politely) 'told off' - I suppose it's clutching at straws really.

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shangrila · 17/09/2008 09:27

FMC were incredibly fast at coming back to me. We had the test 2pm on the Wednesday, result phoned through at 5pm Friday. I would have had to wait another ten days before I could have even taken a test locally, so such drastic measures were more than worth it for me.

They are big on aftercare etc as they also called my consultant, faxed through my result and had a lengthy discussion with her.

Let me know if you want to know anything else.

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