Anyone not having scans?

[amitymama]

I've been reading more about scans and am not sure that I want to have both of the standard 12-week and 20-week ones. If I'm reading it right, the 12-week looks to see how many babies there are, that the placenta is in the right place and that's when they do the nuchal testing. That one seems more important to me. But what is the purpose of the 20-week scan other than to test for abnormalities? If I know I wouldn't abort even if there were something terribly wrong with the baby, is there really any point in having it done? I know most people jump at the chance to have as many scans as possible but I think they are kind of needless and studies have not concluded that they are completely harmless to the fetus.

Has anyone refused a scan? If so, why and how did your care provider react? Which scan(s) did you skip?

Maybe differ where you live, but usually:

12 week scan they can confirm the due date with 95% accuracy within +/- 3 day (they don't look for placenta position and nuchal fold test or what you might do with that information is optional). There are certain valuable diagnostic measurements that can be made at only this point, too, if you are carrying multiples.

20 wk scan they check on placenta position and look for abnomalities. Serious problems that might require early intervention, monitoring or even in-utero treatment will be looked for at this stage, too.

Hth. I fully support people who skip scans, btw. It's your right to refuse them if you prefer, and how much disapproval you might encounter varies a lot by health authority. In 4 pregnancies I've had 6 extra scans (in addition to usual 12 & 20 wk) just because 'they' thought they had found a problem, which turned out to be nothing. The extra scans were therefore mostly just extra stress for me, no help at all in the pregnancies. But perhaps I was just lucky.

I think both scans are very important. In my first pregancy I had a scan at 9 weeks due to a bleed which showed my baby perfectly healthy. But at my rountine scan at 12 weeks showed my baby had died at 10 weeks. The hospital seemed very concerned to operate that night and I wasnt that sure but they explained that as I had already being carrying the baby dead for 2 weeks I was at risk of getting infection which in rare cases can be life threating. At this point there was nothing to make me think my baby had died I still had morning sickness, had a alittle bump had sore boobs and still felt preg. They did operate that night and I did get a very nasty infection but fortunetly it was dealt with quickly. If I had missed that 12 week scan I may of carried my baby for longer and may of got a worse infection.
Regarding the 20 week scan. My sil at her 20w scan they picked up a problem with the placenta and that the baby was slightly smaller than should be, this was not picked up at her 12week scan. They kept monitoring her and scanning her every few weeks. At 36 weeks they deciding the placenta was defintely failing and gave her a section, he is now 3 months old and very healthy and cute.
Why dont you want a scan?

hm this is adifficult one as i see your point.
however after 2 mcs i wanted mine to set my mind at ease that evrything was ok with my baby.

its up to you i you dont want one but it is cosidered an important aspect of your antinatal care.

12 week scan does date your baby, placenta as i understand it is likely to move as the baby gets bigger (with the growth of the uterus) so that would be identified definitively on the 20 week scan. tis important to know where that it as can bcome life threatening at the time of delivery
there are too many good reasons in my mind to have it
besides all that, its a pivitol point in an amazing time, you will never see that point of your babies developement again, why would you want to miss that?

Hm, I think, if you don't want to have scans done, than go with that.
Scans are so inaccurate half the time anyway, and the possible adverse affects, whilst not well documented, do seem to exist.

Sometimes scans do more worry than good anyway.

I know a fair few women who did not have scans and had no problems!
A good midwife will be able to assess you and make sure all is well...I am sure if you would experience any problems, (like bleeding in later pg), you possibly would reconsider anyway.

I did have scan's...and to me the 20-25 week scan felt important, as I have a cleft lip and palate, and whilst it would not have changed attitude and love for the Baby, I felt that I would like to know in advance, so, that I could prepare for it.

I did however, in my last pg refuse Dopplers, and the midwifes used those "trumpet" things (I can't for my life think what they are called), and whilst it meant I "missed" out on hearing my baby's heartbeat, I knew I was doing the best for my Baby, as indeed a midwife will actually be able to hear the Baby's heartbeat much better and will be able to assess better if all is well, as they then hear the real heartbeat, rather then the techno version.

Must admit, I only really found out about the scan/doppler issues when pg with #3.

I take your point and I had no tests other than the scans (which was checked a few times by various people but no one ever openly criticised me). I too had a missed mc and I wanted to know that my baby was still alive in this pregnancy.

I have a friend who had a very serious complication picked up at the 20 week scan - that her foetus was developing so abnormally that there was no way it was ever going to survive (it had no brain stem). In that sort of situation, it's obviously up to the mother but she decided to terminate the pregnancy there rather than continuing it for another 20 weeks. Personally I'd rather know that kind of thing as I think a stillbirth is horribly traumatic but it is entirely your choice

donbean, with placenta previa, women generally experience bleeding in late pg...and at 20 weeks many placentas look like possible previas, but most turn out to be perfectly fine and out of the way by the time Baby is ready to come out!

Orange, actually you could just wait for the Baby to abort naturally.And some women indeed choose that over a D&C....! I must admit, I have not heard about any increased risk of a missed miscarriage...however, d&c indeed does carry a risk of infection. Saying that, when I had a m/c with my first pg, I decided to have a d&c as I just wanted to get rid of the dead "Baby"...with my 2. I let nature take it's course, but it was very early days with that.

spicemonster, but then, if you know something seriously is wrong with your Baby and you have to make a decision of abortion...that can have terrible affects just like a stillbirth or a Baby dying straight after Birth....
I think if someone is absolutely sure that no matter what they just let nature take it's course...it wouldn't make much of a difference to the outcome, but very possibly will increase anxiety.

I think that's right 3andnomore - when I went for my scan at 12 weeks they said my foetus had died about 8 weeks but I didn't have a D&C and waited until I lost it naturally. They did scan me after to make sure there were no 'retained products of conception' (vile term) but I was fine.

Sorry for derail amitymama - hopefully this will be totally irrelevant to you!

BTW, I definately think that having scans and the reason for doing it is just as valid as not having scans...but women are often made to feel guilty if they refuse any of the antenatal testing...even if they do so, because they feel there is no benefit to them personally and that they feel they are to invasive.

I can fully understand OP being reluctant! Scans can feel like just an excuse for them to find something wrong, which is unlikely to actually exist -- they just stress you out talking about it and triple-checking for the non-existant problem. Or might lead to feeling pressured to act in response to what they describe as bad news ("are you sure you want to continue this pregnancy knowing the baby might have severe problems?", etc.)

They can provide false reassurance, too; sometimes people still miscarry even after a 'good' 12 week scan, for instance.

Personally I would still choose to have the routine scans, but I treat them as very fallible and uncertain and indefinite. OP asked if ultrasound really is safe to the fetus and personally I think U/S scans are safe enough, although I don't think that can ever be proven 100%.

Yes I take your point 3andnomore. I suppose having watched two friends go through both quite recently, I would rather terminate early. But then I'm putting myself in their shoes and I agree that it's absolutely valid to refuse scans. I think it's very easy to forget that it's our pregnancy and we can do what we like.

absolutely spicemonster...I really think it's up to a women, at the end of the day, we know ourselfs best and if we have strong convictions and feel abortion for instance isn't an option anyway...

Flack, but tehre is evidence that scans can influence brain developement/cell change...so, I can understand any woman that rather not take the risk.

It is such a personal thing, isn't it...but I really feel that if a woman decides to refuse any treatment/tests they are very likely to earn disaproval, just because nowadays it's the norm to take any test you can, and many people go to such lenght with private scans and those little doppler things you can now buy everywhere...

I know waht the OP is saying about not wanting to terminate if anything was found on 20 week scan - I chose not to have nuchal fold/CVS/blood tests etc for exactly that reason. But the difference is, some of the abnormalities that can be seen on a 20 week scan are ones that they term 'incompatible with life' - ie anencephaphly, whereby the foetus could never survive under the best of circumstances; surely it would be better to know this even if you then did decide you would rather carry to term?

the main reason why I would want the scan is to check the position of the placenta - simply to make sure that it wasn't across the cervix.

I refused the nuchal test and the blood tests, as I also wouldn't terminate if there was a problem.

And as someone else has said, the scans are sometimes inaccurate or don't pick up on sometimes major babies.

I know tow babies who were born with the fatal trisomy 13 and neither was picked up on during a scan.

And I would also want a scan to make sure I was still pregnant, having miscarried twice.

major problems, not major babies

Such a controversial subject isn't it?
Because of my age (35) i was almost convinced there would be something wrong with my baby.The scans have put my mind at rest at least. although the statistical results with the blood tests are rather baffling, if your baby has a 1-800 chance of downs syndrome you think hmm thats ok, but if someone told you the odds on winning the lottery were 1-800 we would be having a go every week - indeed most are and the odds are more like 1-100000 lol.
What will be will be is what my mum would always say, and it's not a bad attitude to have. so stick with your own instincts and do whats best for you and your baby.

Thanks for all of the opinions and thoughts.

I think another thing that is concerning me a bit with the dating scan is that I don't want to be 'on the clock' if I go overdue and possibly be bullied into an induction or not get my homebirth.

Also, I know that the technicians often get it wrong and either miss things completely or needlessly worry the mother and make her go through countless, needless scans. Then again, I can see the benefit of knowing something is wrong if it's fixable and they have special teams on hand to treat the baby in utero or immediately after birth. How often does that actually happen though?

If you were to have only one scan, which one would you choose?

I'd have the 20 week scan if I was going to have only one.

I ended up having lots of scans at the end of my pregnancy because I had polyhydramnios which can be dangerous because it can lead to a prolapsed umbilical cord. The scans allowed them to identify why I was so large and plan a birth that was safest for my baby (in the end I had a cs as I decided I wasn't prepared to take the risk of the cord prolapsing). I chose to have those scans though, no one forced me.

My baby is fine now but I was glad to have the scans because it allowed me to see for myself that he was okay.

In my area, 20 weeks scans were only introduced a couple of years ago... so I had to travel to anothere area to have 20 week scan.

I'm not sure you would be able to have a homebirth if you refused scans. I don't know this for a fact, but knowing how they work, I am not sure it would make things smooth for you. I am also concerned it might make them MORE likely to recommend an induction etc, just because "we don't know when your due date is".

Other than that, I can see why you are considering this and don't think it is a majorly risky thing to do. I don't think the 20 week anomaly scan is performed mostly so that women can decide to terminate, though, I think it's to enable any special treatment needed immediately after the birth, for example, but I do know people who discovered problems at this stage and found it caused more worry than necessary.

The dating scan can work in your favour. I had only one period between last baby and this pregnancy. By my LMP I'm 14 weeks now, by early viability scan (the hosp haven't managed to actually do my dating scan yet ) I am 13 weeks. Assuming the hosp confirm this, I have "bought" myself an extra week before they talk about induction. This is v important to me as the last baby was 12 days late both by dates and scan.

Personally, I refuse the nuchal tests as I don't think finding out the "chance" of Down's Syndrome is of any value, but I do see the value in making sure the baby is alive at that point.

I do also see the value in finding out about abnormalities, cleft palate, heart problems etc at 20 weeks, so that you can be prepared either just in an emotional sense, or by knowing your baby might need medical attention. Particularly in my case since I was having a home birth. I thought it was better to know the baby "appeared" (it's not hard and fast) to have healthy organs etc.

However, as someone who has refused some of the tests offered, I would respect any decision a person took not to have certain tests.

I did find it irritating having to explain myself (in the way I did above) to the 20 week sonographer as to why I was having the anomaly scan but refused the nuchal. You'd think they'd be pleased I was saving them money...

Haven't read all the posts, but I would take both scans if I were you for the following reasons:

1. 12 weeks scan - confirms dates - dates may be absolutely vital (they are for me) in case you get complications and they need to deliver early. Scanning a baby to determine the age is less accurate the further a pregnancy goes on. Best to know dates IMO.

2. 20 week scan - they will find where your placenta is - important should you end up needing a csection/if you have a low lying placenta. They can also treat baby in utero/medicate some conditions if they find certain problems.

I would not abort either for medical problems so I did not have the blood tests for Downs etc, but I did take both the scans. The information from the scans may prove extremely useful.

With my first pregnancy I only had the 20 week scan (actually at 21 weeks). This was all that the hospital offered. That was in York and only in 2003 so I would say if you only want one go for the 20 week one.
Personally I was glad to have three scans with my second baby (8 weeks due to bleeding and then the 12 and 20 week ones). I chose not to have the extra blood tests though as I reasoned I was young and therefore lower risk and actually couldn't imagine having to make that sort of heartbreaking decision. Ignorance was bliss.

just had a really quick read amitymama and I would definitely agree that you only have scans if you feel comfortable with them/would benefit from them. Ultrasound scans are a relatively new invention and the human race has survived for a very long time without them .

For me personally they were really important (I too have had a missed m/c and another m/c) - the 12 week scan was vital for me for my peace of mind. Where I live 20 week scans are not routinely offered so I'm having to pay privately for one. If there are any abnormalities etc I would rather know.

It's a really personal decision though and you should just go with your own instinct.

Message withdrawn